BaltACD Backshop Yeah, but did you read the preface on the report. It claims that they damage the roads less than two standard trucks, which is BS. The MTA (MI Trucking Assn) is one of the strongest lobbying groups in the state. They know which palms to grease. Their claim used to be that MI needed the heavier trucks because of all the heavy industry we have. Those days are long gone, so they started a new tack. Also, that it's better because of the driver shortage. Is Michigan building the roads to a higher standard to support the additional weights than the rest of the states are?
Backshop Yeah, but did you read the preface on the report. It claims that they damage the roads less than two standard trucks, which is BS. The MTA (MI Trucking Assn) is one of the strongest lobbying groups in the state. They know which palms to grease. Their claim used to be that MI needed the heavier trucks because of all the heavy industry we have. Those days are long gone, so they started a new tack. Also, that it's better because of the driver shortage.
Is Michigan building the roads to a higher standard to support the additional weights than the rest of the states are?
The main problem here is civil engineers don't account for the high water table we have.. The mix of sandy and clay soil is not satisfactory. Clay has very little to no percolation. Poor drainage destroys the sub grade of the road. The weight just makes it worse. The thaw freeze cycles don't help either. Southwestern Ontario has just as high axle loads on their trucks yet their roads are much better and they have very similar soil conditions..
Are the civil engineers in Michigan stikingly stupid? If so, I hope they don't migrate elsewhere.
Ed
7j43kAre the civil engineers in Michigan stikingly stupid? If so, I hope they don't migrate elsewhere. Ed
No contractor has ever found a corner he couldn't cut to increase his profit.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
True. I find them all the time. I just don't choose to take them.
Michigan trucks have to have a lot more axels so the per axel loan is the same. Some of the trucks have retractable axels for seasonal "frost law" load limits.
You can blame poorly built roads on how the USA contracts road construction out. Instead of requirements of lasting so many years between being replaced and so for with warranty requirements in the contracts. Nope it's a generic set of requirements for each state with a baseline requirement and the cheapest contract wins regardless of if the project fails 6 months later. All of this mandated by the Federal government.
Shadow the Cats owner You can blame poorly built roads on how the USA contracts road construction out. Instead of requirements of lasting so many years between being replaced and so for with warranty requirements in the contracts. Nope it's a generic set of requirements for each state with a baseline requirement and the cheapest contract wins regardless of if the project fails 6 months later. All of this mandated by the Federal government.
Truly amazing how the federal government causes historically crappy roads in Michigan.
One can only wonder how Michigan became the target of federal ire, as opposed to Nevada. Or Nebraska.
7j43k He also explained why some people in Michigan were living in basements without a hint of a house on top. Ed
He also explained why some people in Michigan were living in basements without a hint of a house on top.
7j43kHe also explained why some people in Michigan were living in basements without a hint of a house on top.
Used to be some of those in northern, NY, too...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Part of the reason for the Eisenhower Interstate System was also as a Defense Mobility function. Have the spec for the roadway been designed to support moving Abrams M1A1 Main Battle tanks on the roadways without significant damage?
I am led to understand that the German Autobahns were constructed with a 20 inch thick road surface. I believe the US standard is 6 inches. I am willing to be corrected.
The Abrams wasn't developed until well after the Interstate System was built. I've seen some construction and it seems to be quite a bit thicker than 6 inches.
BaltACD Part of the reason for the Eisenhower Interstate System was also as a Defense Mobility function. Have the spec for the roadway been designed to support moving Abrams M1A1 Main Battle tanks on the roadways without significant damage? I am led to understand that the German Autobahns were constructed with a 20 inch thick road surface. I believe the US standard is 6 inches. I am willing to be corrected.
Since the weight of an M1A1 is about the same as an M103, and the M103 was on the drawing board in 1950, I would think that there wouldn't be any change in design to handle the M1A1. Since it would be on a transporter, the overall weight might be less IF the transporter had a lower tare weight.
An online search for concrete thickness for the Autobahn finds 8 inches.
An online search for concrete thickness for Interstate highways finds 11-12 inches.
I didn't spend lots of time confirming the above two statements.
However:
Here is a pamphlet that shows the 11 inch thick concrete on top of 21 inches of aggregate on top of compacted soil:
https://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/2006/3127/2006-3127.pdf
BaltACD 7j43k Are the civil engineers in Michigan stikingly stupid? If so, I hope they don't migrate elsewhere. Ed No contractor has ever found a corner he couldn't cut to increase his profit.
7j43k Are the civil engineers in Michigan stikingly stupid? If so, I hope they don't migrate elsewhere. Ed
BaltACD You are so right!! Unless you have 10-15 highly qualified, highly motivated engineers/engineer techs watching every move the contractor makes all day long and part of the night, and even then the contractor can find a way. Most of the construction contracts I had when with the Feds, the supervising engineer was part-time on any one project, and if there was an engineer tech available part-time in addition, it was like a fantasy come true. 7j43k Are the civil engineers in Michigan stikingly stupid? If so, I hope they don't migrate elsewhere. Ed No contractor has ever found a corner he couldn't cut to increase his profit.
You are so right!! Unless you have 10-15 highly qualified, highly motivated engineers/engineer techs watching every move the contractor makes all day long and part of the night, and even then the contractor can find a way. Most of the construction contracts I had when with the Feds, the supervising engineer was part-time on any one project, and if there was an engineer tech available part-time in addition, it was like a fantasy come true.
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