n012944 charlie hebdo n012944 charlie hebdo Welcome and adapt to change or go the way of the horse and buggy or US Steel or the O&W. And yet 41 years after the game changed, not 50 like you claimed, railroads are still making money hand over fist. Ya know on a phone it's easy to hit the 5 instead of the 4, but you wouldn't know that. Profits and losing customers every day, hand over first. Ya know on a forum it is easy to edit a "mistake" on your own post, but you wouldn't know that. Profits and gaining large customers every day, Amazon and Fed Ex come to mind.
charlie hebdo n012944 charlie hebdo Welcome and adapt to change or go the way of the horse and buggy or US Steel or the O&W. And yet 41 years after the game changed, not 50 like you claimed, railroads are still making money hand over fist. Ya know on a phone it's easy to hit the 5 instead of the 4, but you wouldn't know that. Profits and losing customers every day, hand over first.
n012944 charlie hebdo Welcome and adapt to change or go the way of the horse and buggy or US Steel or the O&W. And yet 41 years after the game changed, not 50 like you claimed, railroads are still making money hand over fist.
charlie hebdo Welcome and adapt to change or go the way of the horse and buggy or US Steel or the O&W.
Welcome and adapt to change or go the way of the horse and buggy or US Steel or the O&W.
And yet 41 years after the game changed, not 50 like you claimed, railroads are still making money hand over fist.
Ya know on a phone it's easy to hit the 5 instead of the 4, but you wouldn't know that.
Profits and losing customers every day, hand over first.
Ya know on a forum it is easy to edit a "mistake" on your own post, but you wouldn't know that.
Profits and gaining large customers every day, Amazon and Fed Ex come to mind.
Ya but most people wouldn't need the correction to realize and understand the point of the sentence.
An "expensive model collector"
charlie hebdoWelcome and adapt to change or go the way of the horse and buggy or US Steel (the sun off is a shadow of the old steel company) or the O&W.
Railroads have been adapting and changing ever since Statters. While we may not like it - PSR is adaption and change from what existed before. Who knows what form of adaption and change will follow PSR - but something will.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Welcome and adapt to change or go the way of the horse and buggy or US Steel (the sun off is a shadow of the old steel company) or the O&W.
charlie hebdo SD60MAC9500 charlie hebdo SD60MAC9500 charlie hebdo It's ridiculous. The Staggers Act was 50 years ago. Still whining! The Staggers Rail Act was passed in 1980..... https://www.aar.org/article/freight-railroads-the-staggers-act-of-1980/ Right. A typo doesn't change the fact that the rails or at least our resident expert is excusing the rail ineptitude in operating as customer-centered transportation operations today for a situation that ended 41 years ago. Living in the past, riding the same ol' hobby horse. Actually not right... This doesn't excuse you from the fact you had the timeline wrong... If I said staggers was passed in 1970. ..Somebody proceeds to correct me and I reply with.. Right. The railroads are still whining!... Well I was still wrong about the timeline, and should accept the correction... So to your statement railroads are whining..What exactly are they whining about? Could you just go back and read my entire reply above? [Hint: resident expert]. Add BALT's remark about it taking the rails ten years after Staggers to start anew. That's still 20 years. Whole new industries have been started in less time. Perhaps you can understand?
SD60MAC9500 charlie hebdo SD60MAC9500 charlie hebdo It's ridiculous. The Staggers Act was 50 years ago. Still whining! The Staggers Rail Act was passed in 1980..... https://www.aar.org/article/freight-railroads-the-staggers-act-of-1980/ Right. A typo doesn't change the fact that the rails or at least our resident expert is excusing the rail ineptitude in operating as customer-centered transportation operations today for a situation that ended 41 years ago. Living in the past, riding the same ol' hobby horse. Actually not right... This doesn't excuse you from the fact you had the timeline wrong... If I said staggers was passed in 1970. ..Somebody proceeds to correct me and I reply with.. Right. The railroads are still whining!... Well I was still wrong about the timeline, and should accept the correction... So to your statement railroads are whining..What exactly are they whining about?
charlie hebdo SD60MAC9500 charlie hebdo It's ridiculous. The Staggers Act was 50 years ago. Still whining! The Staggers Rail Act was passed in 1980..... https://www.aar.org/article/freight-railroads-the-staggers-act-of-1980/ Right. A typo doesn't change the fact that the rails or at least our resident expert is excusing the rail ineptitude in operating as customer-centered transportation operations today for a situation that ended 41 years ago. Living in the past, riding the same ol' hobby horse.
SD60MAC9500 charlie hebdo It's ridiculous. The Staggers Act was 50 years ago. Still whining! The Staggers Rail Act was passed in 1980..... https://www.aar.org/article/freight-railroads-the-staggers-act-of-1980/
charlie hebdo It's ridiculous. The Staggers Act was 50 years ago. Still whining!
It's ridiculous. The Staggers Act was 50 years ago. Still whining!
The Staggers Rail Act was passed in 1980.....
https://www.aar.org/article/freight-railroads-the-staggers-act-of-1980/
Right. A typo doesn't change the fact that the rails or at least our resident expert is excusing the rail ineptitude in operating as customer-centered transportation operations today for a situation that ended 41 years ago. Living in the past, riding the same ol' hobby horse.
Actually not right... This doesn't excuse you from the fact you had the timeline wrong... If I said staggers was passed in 1970. ..Somebody proceeds to correct me and I reply with.. Right. The railroads are still whining!... Well I was still wrong about the timeline, and should accept the correction...
So to your statement railroads are whining..What exactly are they whining about?
Could you just go back and read my entire reply above? [Hint: resident expert]. Add BALT's remark about it taking the rails ten years after Staggers to start anew. That's still 20 years. Whole new industries have been started in less time. Perhaps you can understand?
New industries have totally different trajectories than do established industries - they always have and they always will.
Established industries have a 'learned playbook' of what has made them what they are. New industries are built upon 'throwing it against the wall and see what sticks'. Established industries have thrown so much against the wall over their years so that they already know what sticks. In new industries you may have 20 or more new firms - once the industries are a 'thing' they then start the process of merger and acquisition to shake the field down to a less than a handful and thus the become 'established'.
After Staggers passed - it took more than a decade for railroad management's that had been trained from their employement date about what they COULDN'T DO to figure out what and how Staggers permitted them to do.
Overmod BaltACD If you are not a regular industrial kind of shipper - you have to take your shipment to FedEx and UPS. They deliver but don't pick up for us regular folk. What country do you live in? In the United States Federal Express picks up, and always has (they now charge $4 if you're not a 'regular') and UPS picks up, and always has, and they advertised yesterday that it was free.
BaltACD If you are not a regular industrial kind of shipper - you have to take your shipment to FedEx and UPS. They deliver but don't pick up for us regular folk.
What country do you live in? In the United States Federal Express picks up, and always has (they now charge $4 if you're not a 'regular') and UPS picks up, and always has, and they advertised yesterday that it was free.
I use the UPS Store and the FedEx kisok's.
BaltACDIf you are not a regular industrial kind of shipper - you have to take your shipment to FedEx and UPS. They deliver but don't pick up for us regular folk.
azrailBoth Santa Fe and MoPac briefly operated air freight companies.
If you are not a regular industrial kind of shipper - you have to take your shipment to FedEx and UPS. They deliver but don't pick up for us regular folk.
Both Santa Fe and MoPac briefly operated air freight companies.
greyhounds If you look at FedEx Ground, you may see where we were headed 90 years ago. FedEx is the largest LTL carrier in the US. They simply use the best method available. If OTR works best, that’s what they use. If rail intermodal works best, that’s what they’ll use.
If you look at FedEx Ground, you may see where we were headed 90 years ago. FedEx is the largest LTL carrier in the US. They simply use the best method available. If OTR works best, that’s what they use. If rail intermodal works best, that’s what they’ll use.
CMStPnP greyhounds If you look at FedEx Ground, you may see where we were headed 90 years ago. FedEx is the largest LTL carrier in the US. They simply use the best method available. If OTR works best, that’s what they use. If rail intermodal works best, that’s what they’ll use. Yeaaahhhh, I think you skipped over some railroad history here. My Father's firm used to use Burlington Northern Air Frieght which was started by BN Railroad in 1972. You need to Google BAX Cargo, which it is called now and read up on the history. So there is one Class One Railroad which tried LTL via same name brand as a subsidiary, until 1982......then sold it off. My Father's manufacturing employer would use them as a quick fix for LTL when they screwed up or miscounted orders to get the odd lots shipped fast to the clients to complete the previously miscounted order ontime. So speed was a concern. They seemed to use the Fed Ex model.....more or less. They also seemed to compete OK, no idea why BN sold it off.
Yeaaahhhh, I think you skipped over some railroad history here.
My Father's firm used to use Burlington Northern Air Frieght which was started by BN Railroad in 1972. You need to Google BAX Cargo, which it is called now and read up on the history. So there is one Class One Railroad which tried LTL via same name brand as a subsidiary, until 1982......then sold it off. My Father's manufacturing employer would use them as a quick fix for LTL when they screwed up or miscounted orders to get the odd lots shipped fast to the clients to complete the previously miscounted order ontime. So speed was a concern. They seemed to use the Fed Ex model.....more or less. They also seemed to compete OK, no idea why BN sold it off.
I think you skipped over this was a time when the railroads were diversifying into: pipelines, air freight, insurance, telecom, etc.. The general consensus among railroad management was an industry in decline. They were preparing for an exit. Not because using rail to move freight was the problem. As Greyhounds consistently points out. The ICC was strangling the railroad industry by not allowing them to set their own rates. Nor reduce cost in the network through plant rationalization..
BAX Global no longer exist. Having ceased operation in 2011 after being absorbed by DB Schenker in 2006..
CMStPnPYeaaahhhh, I think you skipped over some railroad history here. My Father's firm used to use Burlington Northern Air Frieght which was started by BN Railroad in 1972. You need to Google BAX Cargo, which it is called now and read up on the history. So there is one Class One Railroad which tried LTL via same name brand as a subsidiary, until 1982......then sold it off. My Father's manufacturing employer would use them as a quick fix for LTL when they screwed up or miscounted orders to get the odd lots shipped fast to the clients to complete the previously miscounted order ontime. So speed was a concern. They seemed to use the Fed Ex model.....more or less. They also seemed to compete OK, no idea why BN sold it off.
Well, I can’t write a book on this site. BN Air Freight was a small, short-term blip. BN was allowed to try it because air transport was economically regulated by a different government bureaucracy, the Civil Aeronautics Board, than surface transportation was. The Interstate Commerce Commission exercised oppressive control over the railroads, and they greatly restricted rail-truck integration. Why have just one counter-productive bureaucracy when you can have two? Both the CAB and ICC are thankfully long gone.
BN Air Freight didn’t work out, so they got rid of it. But I’ll give them credit for trying.
Speed can be a concern in transportation. It’s usually not paramount. But it can be. For example, fresh strawberries need to get to market very quickly.
But things such as standard LTL are subject to a cost-benefit trade off. If it takes an extra day by rail, but it cost less, the customer must evaluate the need.
The railroads that we the people built with land grants and over the years bailed them out via Conrail and before that with USRA in WW1 won't serve the common man or small buisness and have evolved into niche boteuque carriers that only handle 15% of the nations freight and only if it is going over 300 miles in Contract lots of at least 1000 containers a year Plus if you are lucky to have a siding the railroads charge you 2,000.00 yearly for the privilege of being their customer vis a via Switch Mauntancs charges. One of the first things that Conrail did was "Demarket" customers and close down branch lines and pull up sidings to rationalize the nations rail network and fire local agents and only take calls from contract customers instead of the farmer that wanted to ship his tractor combine across to his new farm out west because his farm had been cut n half by the new freeway that replaced the commuter rail line in the east
greyhoundsIf you look at FedEx Ground, you may see where we were headed 90 years ago. FedEx is the largest LTL carrier in the US. They simply use the best method available. If OTR works best, that’s what they use. If rail intermodal works best, that’s what they’ll use.
CMStPnPNow if you were to ask me. I suspect the railroads intermodal trains are way to slow and unreliable (schedule wise) to compete with OTR truckers already in the LTL sales segment. Maybe some day when the rails can once again adhere to fast service and tight schedules. I think those days disappeared with the privately run passenger train though and to me it doesn't look like any railroad is in any hurry to bring those tight schedule management days back anytime soon. As for past government intervention and rulings. Each Class I has a fairly sizeable lobbying budget for the Feds. If they really wanted the business they would be lobbying for it heavily. They aren't. Again I think it goes back to the business being viewed as too much bother vs revenue by the Class I's. Why get your railroad to high performance to capture LTL market share? Why stick your neck out?
There’s nothing to lobby for. The regulations have been gone for 40 years. But by the time they were eliminated the railroads’ business structure and expertise for directly handling LCL/LTL had been destroyed. The government had effectively allocated this freight to the truck companies. The New York Central, in particular, fought hard to keep this freight. The railroad lost. But not to the truck lines. They lost to the government economic regulators, who were outright fools.
So, now what? The railroads could either take many years to build back the internal structure and expertise needed to handle the freight directly or they could work with the LTL truckers. They decided to do the later. I don’t see that as a mistake.
Rail intermodal service on major intermodal lanes is service competitive with over the road trucking. It might be a day slower, but it’s competitive. Everything is a trade-off. If the railroad saves them some money, they’ll allow an extra day in transit.
Universal Carloading and Distributing, along with other forwarders, was doing that in the 1920’s. Then the government got in the way.
You can buy drayage companies for fairly cheap that do business with the Class I intermodal ramps, several listings can be found via Google. So if some of you think you have a better idea.....why not go for it? Buy a drayage company at two major city points, maybe 1 East Coast and 1 West Coast and go after the LTL traffic.
Now if you were to ask me. I suspect the railroads intermodal trains are way to slow and unreliable (schedule wise) to compete with OTR truckers already in the LTL sales segment. Maybe some day when the rails can once again adhere to fast service and tight schedules. I think those days disappeared with the privately run passenger train though and to me it doesn't look like any railroad is in any hurry to bring those tight schedule management days back anytime soon.
As for past government intervention and rulings. Each Class I has a fairly sizeable lobbying budget for the Feds. If they really wanted the business they would be lobbying for it heavily. They aren't. Again I think it goes back to the business being viewed as too much bother vs revenue by the Class I's. Why get your railroad to high performance to capture LTL market share? Why stick your neck out?
Run like a pipeline......slow and steady.
Flintlock76 BaltACD Back in the day of true LCL on the railroads - they had large warehouses to facilitate the business as well as, in many cases, dedicated local delivery services in the major metropolitan areas A great example of this is in the New Haven's 1941 promo film "A Great Railroad At Work." They show you exactly how it used to operate. Easily found with a YouTube search. Of course, 1941 might just as well be the Jurassic Period. But they had a system, and it worked.
BaltACD Back in the day of true LCL on the railroads - they had large warehouses to facilitate the business as well as, in many cases, dedicated local delivery services in the major metropolitan areas
A great example of this is in the New Haven's 1941 promo film "A Great Railroad At Work." They show you exactly how it used to operate. Easily found with a YouTube search.
Of course, 1941 might just as well be the Jurassic Period. But they had a system, and it worked.
Here in Canada the railroads still handle alot of the LTL albeit via freight forwarders on both ends. A couple of years ago CN bought TransX, one of Canada's largest LTL carriers/freight forwarders, so technically CN does provide door to door LTL service in house.
BaltACDBack in the day of true LCL on the railroads - they had large warehouses to facilitate the business as well as, in many cases, dedicated local delivery services in the major metropolitan areas
BaltACD It won't replace Greyhound Package Express.
It won't replace Greyhound Package Express.
LOL! No; it sure won't.
CW
Juniata Man BaltACD A single box car of LCL shipments between a designated O D pair is barely more than a feeble attempt. Balt; I chose wording - "very limited" that wouldn't convey criticism of the effort. One reads constantly on here and over on TO that railroads aren't willing to try anything to get business back on the rails. I'll credit a handful of sales and operating folks at NS for at least giving this a shot. To your remaining point; I absolutely agree this is less than a shadow of what LCL business once was but, as Greyhounds noted, business that decades ago would have shipped LCL now moves via intermodal in LTL carriers equipment. CW
BaltACD A single box car of LCL shipments between a designated O D pair is barely more than a feeble attempt.
A single box car of LCL shipments between a designated O D pair is barely more than a feeble attempt.
Balt; I chose wording - "very limited" that wouldn't convey criticism of the effort. One reads constantly on here and over on TO that railroads aren't willing to try anything to get business back on the rails. I'll credit a handful of sales and operating folks at NS for at least giving this a shot.
To your remaining point; I absolutely agree this is less than a shadow of what LCL business once was but, as Greyhounds noted, business that decades ago would have shipped LCL now moves via intermodal in LTL carriers equipment.
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