Forum Operations

[BaltACD]

One thing I forgot to mention - in the Classic Trains Forum.

No thread changes to gray from RED after the thread has been accessed.  All threads sta RED all the time.

[daveklepper]

Thanks for both the above replies.

I do and will keep the purposes of the Kalmbach Forums in mind whenever I post.

[Lithonia Operator]

Dave, I've never seen you post anything that should offend anyone, or be considered controversial.

[Convicted One]

daveklepper

what legitimate reason do they have for entering my computer?

You think Microsoft needs a legitmate reason?  LOL!    I believe there is a great deal more goings on "under the hood" than we are privy to...I cant get into more detail without appearing political...other than to say "so long as you're doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about."  

Support still comes out for Microsoft office, the Microsoft web browsers, parts of their ".net framework" and possibly others. I think the multimedia subsystem  gets updates due to DMCA issues, as well.  So, just because Microsoft has ended support for Windows 7, doesn't mean the update service is closed to you...but it is best if you take control of it, rather than risking unknowns.

As far as your exploits elsewhere on controversial topics, yes...you likely have valid concerns. 

There are  counter measures, but I doubt the good people at Kalmbach would appreciate them being discussed here.

[daveklepper]

My question:  If Microsoft states "No further support for Windows 7."

what legitimate reason do they have for entering my computer?

So is it not likely tat someone else has found a way to use Microsoft's algorythm, here in Israel. if not in the USA where it might possibly be discovered more easily?

Off all Kalmbach Forums, I'm very forthright about my views on several pssibly controversial topics, which might lead some to desire to track my contacts.

[Convicted One]

daveklepper

thanks -

Just to prepare you for the next stage, you are periodically going to get "red flag" notices in your message center advising you that it is recommended that you activate automatic updates.

This doesn't mean that anything is broken, it just means that Microsoft has discovered they no longer have stealth access to your computer.

[daveklepper]

 

thanks - Connected One!

[tree68]

daveklepper

The updating process seems to start just when I wish to shut down, not while I am actually using the computer.

That's by design - the system wants nothing running when it updates lest it does corrupt something.

This is no different than when you intentionally install a program - you'll usually get a message to make sure all other programs are shut down.

The update downloads while you are working on your computer, then waits in the wings for the opportunity to actually do the update, which will be when you shut down (or restart, which is just a shutdown with an immediate restart).

[Convicted One]

daveklepper

But I have not figured out how to delete automatic-update!

click Start > Control Panel > System and Security. Under Windows Update, click the "Turn automatic updating on or off" link.

[daveklepper]

Thanks for all your replies.  But I have not figured out how to delete automatic-update!

The updating process seems to start just whemn I wish to shut down, not while I am actually using the computer.

And I've long since learned to disregard whether a thread is titled in read or grey.  I can easily live with that problem.

More annoying is having to log in a second time when moving from one part of the website to another.

But I can live witih that prblem, also.

When autmatic log-in does work, I'm thankful.

 

 

[BaltACD]

Several hours ago I read Ed Kyles 'Iowa Interstate' thread.  I left the Trains Forum and went on to other web sites.  I have now come back to the Trains Forum and the Iowa Interstate thread is in RED.

Additionally I had read the Choctaw thread - when I came back it was also RED.  Other threads I had read were in gray.

Enquiring Minds etc. etc. etc.

[BaltACD]

Euclid

I understand the point about not shutting down during an update download in progress.  But what if the updates are legitimate and not from hackers?  Do you just refuse them because they might not be legitimate?

I believe the underlying assumption in what Dave had mentioned, is that since win 7 is no longer supported, the automatic offer of routine updates at shutdown cannot be legitimate because the updates would have ended with the end of Microsoft support.  However, I am still using a win7 computer that routinely notifies me that it will download updates.  I have let them all download.  Some have told me that Microsoft is known to continue support after passing the date that it supposed to end.   

(Okay, I just read your last post, and see the point of what you are saying.) 

On most computers the native operating system, Windows 7 in the case being discussed, is not the only software on the computer - other applications that are on the computer also have their software updated from time to time.  The Windows Office suite of applications, I believe, use the regular 'Windows Update' routine to distribute their updates. 

[Euclid]

I understand the point about not shutting down during an update download in progress.  But what if the updates are legitimate and not from hackers?  Do you just refuse them because they might not be legitimate?

I believe the underlying assumption in what Dave had mentioned, is that since win 7 is no longer supported, the automatic offer of routine updates at shutdown cannot be legitimate because the updates would have ended with the end of Microsoft support.  However, I am still using a win7 computer that routinely notifies me that it will download updates.  I have let them all download.  Some have told me that Microsoft is known to continue support after passing the date that it supposed to end.   

(Okay, I just read your last post, and see the point of what you are saying.) 

[Convicted One]

Plus Euclid,

When you have automatic updates disabled, you just get a little message in your activity monitor that "updates are available". Thereafter, It's up to you to utilize manually the update framework contained in the operating system, that is configured to connect to the microsoft servers. SO you have a fairly high level of confidence that the materials you are receiving are coming from the legitimate source. "Authentic", in other words.

Much different than something just arriving unannounced, from goodness knows where.

[Convicted One]

Euclid

If you disable automatic updates because they may not be legitimate, how do you know whether to give permission to download them when they ask for permission?

I think you are looking at it from a perspective that I had not intended.

David observed that he was discovering unanticipated updates that were already in progress, that were conflicting with his desire to shut down. These unanticipated updates were obviously happening without his participation...."automatically" in other words.

So, by disabling auto updates, it is the CONFLICT we will be avoiding......

 

Meaning that any future "shut down conflicts" he might encounter would most assuredly be from hackers.

For reasons  that are too lengthy  to go into here, there is far greater risk forcing a shutdown during a legitimate Microsoft update, thanthere would be forcing a shutdown during a haxor attack.

SO, I was merely giving him a way to mitigate the greater risk, by putting the auto-update genie back on the bottle.

[Euclid]

Convicted One

There is a setting that restricts updates to being by your permission only.(not automatic)

Sounds to me as though you have  automatic updates enabled.

 If I were you I would disable  automatic updates, that should put you back in control

If you disable automatic updates because they may not be legitimate, how do you know whether to give permission to download them when they ask for permission?

[tree68]

Given Microsoft's propensity to do updates, I'm never surprised when my computer goes through that routine.  In fact, since I generally leave my main PC on, sometimes I think they introduce methods of slowing the machine down until I allow an update.  

The laptop gets shut down regularly.

Suspicion of hacking is a good awareness to have, though.  CO's caveat is true.  Don't want to "brick" your computer.

[Convicted One]

There is a setting that restricts updates to being by your permission only.(not automatic)

Sounds to me as though you have  automatic updates enabled.

 If I were you I would disable  automatic updates, that should put you back in control

 

BTW, shutting off your windows 7 computer in the middle of a legitimate Microsoft update, can have catastrophic  consequences

[daveklepper]

This is as good a thread to ask the question as any, so here goes:

The two computers I use most often, one mine, one the Yeshiva's, both still use Windows 7.  I understand Microsoft no longer supprts Windows 7.

But every few months, when shutting down via the normal too-lengthy process, I get "Loading update one of three, do not power off or shut down your computer."

I suspect hacking and immediately shut down the fast way.

Am I doing the right thing?

 

[Convicted One]

Lithonia Operator

You don't know that what they did that fixed my issue is what adversely affected you. You don't even know (as I don't) that they did anything specifically at my behest.

Relax, there is no animosity from my end. I just roll my eyes a bit when you lament about how others should avoid rocking the boat.

And you're right, the fact that my situation started the exact same day your problem was fixed, COULD be mere coincidence...

[Convicted One]

SD70Dude

That sounds like your browser is not remembering your info, as if you are clearing cookies each and every time. The site remembers me just fine.

 

That's close to what;s happening.  My login info worked just fine for a year prior to the "fix". But the fix required new garbage be loaded to my computer which I have not accepted yet.

So, another way to explain it is "I'm stuck in the past".  Had no one rocked the boat, I'd still be fine.

Like I said earlier having to do what I'm forced to do is not a huge deal, just ironic considering the circumstances.

Consider that I am booted from a non-writeable source, so that's why it isn't just so easy as updating my cookies. I'd have to update my cookies AND rewrite my entire boot media in order to make  the changes permanent.

And with Trains staff promising "major updates soon" (cough cough) I merely have decided to wait and let them get their  looming changes put in effect before I recreate my system.

There are a number of benefits that I enjoy through my stasis, making it worthwhile ....that I won't bore you with. But falling prey to unanticipated "updates" is surely a down side.

 

[adkrr64]

SD70Dude

The site remembers me just fine.

I concur. My browser on this device (Safari on an iPad) remembers me for both the forums and news wire. No logins necessary.

Also keep in mind that browsers usually update themselves regularly, and some of those updates break things that worked before in the same browser. There are a lot of "moving" parts to these things.

[SD70Dude]

Convicted One

Lithonia Operator

Even if I quit the browser and shut down the computer, when I come back I'm still logged in. Such is the car with the Zkalmbach sites. There had been a problem A few weeks ago, but AFAICT, that's been cured.

I USED to be able to shut down  the computer and then come back here without having to log back on, but that luxury went away EXACTLY AT THE TIME you were lamenting about your access problems, and then mentioning everything was fixed.

SO whatever they did to fix yours, destroyed my automatic log in.

Not  a huge deal, as I don't mind having to log in EVERY TIME I VISIT.

But it is a little ironic reading you imploring everyone to "not rock the boat", considering... 

That sounds like your browser is not remembering your info, as if you are clearing cookies each and every time.

The site remembers me just fine.

[Lithonia Operator]

You don't know that what they did that fixed my issue is what adversely affected you. You don't even know (as I don't) that they did anything specifically at my behest.

You are merely speculating.

Complain all you want, though, if you so desire. Be my guest.

[Convicted One]

Lithonia Operator

Even if I quit the browser and shut down the computer, when I come back I'm still logged in. Such is the car with the Zkalmbach sites. There had been a problem A few weeks ago, but AFAICT, that's been cured.

 

I USED to be able to shut down  the computer and then come back here without having to log back on, but that luxury went away EXACTLY AT THE TIME you were lamenting about your access problems, and then mentioning everything was fixed.

SO whatever they did to fix yours, destroyed my automatic log in.

Not  a huge deal, as I don't mind having to log in EVERY TIME I VISIT.

But it is a little ironic reading you imploring everyone to "not rock the boat", considering... 

[Convicted One]

Windows 7 was the pinnacle for Microsoft, IMO.  When they stopped support for 7, that made me move to Linux...haven't regretted it.

[Lithonia Operator]

Convicted One

 

 

Lithonia Operator

I don't know why anyone ever logs out. I log out of my online banking, etc. But here? I don't get it.

 

 

I don't understand why anyone would leave their computer turned on while unattended?  I might for an hour or so, while eating, etc. But If I'm leaving the house for an extended time, or going to bed...I ALWAYS shut her down. Just for the peace of mind that the dark side can't come visiting while I am  away from the switch.

 

CO, I'm talking about logging in and off websites, not the computer. Most sites will let you opt to "stay logged in." Even if I quit the browser and shut down the computer, when I come back I'm still logged in.

Such is the car with the Zkalmbach sites. There had been a problem A few weeks ago, but AFAICT, that's been cured.

[Euclid]

How do you know the problems are not caused by Windows 10?  I have two computers used mostly for running programs such as Autocad and Solidworks.  The older one was running them fine with Windows 7.  I installed Windows 10 about 18 months ago and the cad programs immediately began acting buggy. 

The symptoms are that the cad programs act up randomly/inconsistently here and there in various operations frequently.  When running the cad programs, I encounter a different problem at least every 30 minutes.  There is no indication of what is causing it.  The problems emerge randomly.  The only common denominator is the conversion from Win 7 to 10.  It was the same programs before and after the change from 7 to 10.

Just working on the Internet does not seem to show any problems, but running the cad programs is very buggy.  So the problem seems to be evident in larger applications that are used frequently.  I see the same behavior to some extent on this forum operation, but it is minimal here compared to what happens in the cad programs.  But the randomness is identical.

The cad dealer advised that the problem is not Win 10, but rather the age of the cad computer.  He said that 10 would run new or older versions of Solidworks just fine.  So I bought a new cad work station computer built to Solidworks specs, and the same random, buggy behavior still exists.  

[BaltACD]

Convicted One

I just conducted a little experiment, I clicked on the "mark all discussions read" button, and all thread titles switched to gray.

Then I shut my machine down, re booted, and navigated back to this site. Unsurprisingly, all thread titles were once again red.

But, upon logging back in, all thread titles returned to gray, as hoped for.

So, this site has persistence  that is managed "locally". Which is a good thing.

Balt,  have you possibly  got some big honkin firewall running that might be refusing Kalmbach's machines attempts to verify who you are? (just a thought)

Not running a firewall, just Microsoft's 'native' protections.