Questions on Timetable Operation

[Anonymous]

Hello everyone,
I have a few questions about timetable operation:
1.) If a train stops in unsignaled timetable territory, then a brakeman goes back one mile and has a red flag to stop any following trains. Does he also set up a torpedo, and if not, what protection is there for the train when the flagman is returning to the train but it is not moving yet?

2.) What does the train crew do when the train needs to back up, since the flagman needs to stay one mile back and the train will be moving faster than he can walk, and the following movement will have less distance to stop because the first train will still be backing up?

3.) Under what conditions would a flagman go ahead to protect the front of a train? I can't think of any senarios where this would be required, since opposing trains would stay at the siding until the train passed.

4.) Suppose a train is going at track speed (say seventy mph), but then drops to three miles per hour very quickly. The brakeman would drop a flare, but there probably wouldn't be enough separation between the flare and the train by the time a following movement came along for the following train to stop, but no flagman would go back far enough for a train to stop. How is this remedied?

5.) How does a brakeman know how far one mile back is while between mileposts. Does he count ties or what?

6.) On a place such as the Florida East Coast's (I believe) viaduct, which is very long but not wide enough for a flagman and a train to share, how does the flagman safely flag down a following train?

7.) If a flagman is walking back to flag against following movements, and he encounters one before one mile back, how does the flagman indicate to the train that there is a shorter distance to stop?

Any help you could provide with these would be most appreciated.

Most sincerely and gratefully,
Daniel Parks

[wabash1]

answers

1) the flagman will drop off and go 2 miles back drop a fusee and 2 torpedos then walk toward train 1 mile and stop wait to be called back to train. you go back 2x as far as your train for speed in timetable instructions.

2) depends on how far back you need to go. if a few cars just do it. also you are stating walking . no you would be running. you are in these questions refering to train orders days these rules would not apply today in track warrent territory

3)a brake man would run ahead at anytime they go into emergency accident or anything where the train stops. just because a train order says onething dont mean it holds up remeber the trains ran on timetable and if you could not make it to your meet then you stayed back no exceptions

4) you drop the flare and keep dropping them til you are back up to speed. and a train that comes upon a burning unattendant fusee must reduce to restricted speed and stay at that speed for 1 mile

5&6) if in doubt keep going back far ther than needed and you dont share a tunnel with a train no need to go in that tunnel .

7) if the train shows up before you can flag against it the trains was running closer than 10 min appart and this was the norm all trains must run 10 min apart. otherwise if the train is comming light a fusee and flag that terain to a stop

[Randy Stahl]

I recall the older fusees having spikes in the ends of them to stick in a tie when correctly dropped from a caboose of a delayed train. Depending on the length of delay, a train will lose it's rights after 2 hours then will become an extra train or totally annulled.
Randy

[kenneo]

Randy

The loss of timetable authority is 12 hours.

Once the train you are flagging against has arrived, the brakeman/flagman can get a cab ride to the rear of his train. It is OK to advance the flagged movement ahead once the flagman and engineer have the proper agreement between themselves to prevent a "rough joint".

The rearman on the flagged train will get off and flag once his train has been stopped by the original flagman and can usually flag from that spot since he will be at least a mile from the rear of his own train once it has advanced.

You are talking of dark territory, so a freight can go no faster than 49 and a passenger no faster than 59.

When you are making a meet with a train operating on timetable authority, that other train does not know of your existance, so if you can not get to a place where you can get into the clear, you have to flag against that train - ahead or behind. And, believe me, if the reason you could not get into the clear was something you could have avoided, you will get an unpaid vacation.

The FEC's line over the Keys was a positive manual block operation. Only one train was permitted between stations at a time. Rule 99 almost never applied in this situation.

In dark territory, trains must not operate closed than 10 minutes behind another.

[dehusman]

1.) If a train stops in unsignaled timetable territory, then a brakeman goes back one mile and has a red flag to stop any following trains. Does he also set up a torpedo, and if not, what protection is there for the train when the flagman is returning to the train but it is not moving yet?
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A1: The brakeman goes back flagging distance which varies from one to two miles depending on the rules of the railroad and the speed of the track. He then places torpedoes on the track and comes back 1/2 the flagging distance. When recalled he drops a fussee and heads back to the train.
The train is protected by the torpedoes.
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2.) What does the train crew do when the train needs to back up, since the flagman needs to stay one mile back and the train will be moving faster than he can walk, and the following movement will have less distance to stop because the first train will still be backing up?
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A2 : They either have to plan ahead and drop a flagman back farther, get protection from the dispatcher or walk the flag back.
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3.) Under what conditions would a flagman go ahead to protect the front of a train?
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A3 : A train on multiple track goes in emergency.
An inferior train cannot get into the clear prior to the time of an opposing superior train.
An inferior train has to pull past the siding and back into the siding to clear for a meet.
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4.) Suppose a train is going at track speed (say seventy mph), but then drops to three miles per hour very quickly. The brakeman would drop a flare, but there probably wouldn't be enough separation between the flare and the train by the time a following movement came along for the following train to stop, but no flagman would go back far enough for a train to stop. How is this remedied?
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A4 : The automatic block signal system.
If they are going over 49 mph then there HAS to be a block signal system in place.
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5.) How does a brakeman know how far one mile back is while between mileposts. Does he count ties or what?
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A5 : He counts poles. Every 10 telegraph poles is marked with a marker, a typical one is a painted or metal band around the pole at 10 poles, 2 bands at 20 poles, 3 bands at 30 poles.
Where there are no poles then the RR has installed 1/4 mile markers.
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6.) On a place such as the Florida East Coast's (I believe) viaduct, which is very long but not wide enough for a flagman and a train to share, how does the flagman safely flag down a following train?
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A6 : If you put the torpedoes down flagging distance back, then come back 1/2 the distance or more the train should be able to stop before passing the flagman. Most long bridges have little "escape" platforms built off the sides for just that purpose.
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7.) If a flagman is walking back to flag against following movements, and he encounters one before one mile back, how does the flagman indicate to the train that there is a shorter distance to stop?
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A7: The rules require him to put down torpedoes and begin flagging the train. There is no specific signal to indicate "short flagging" but a flagman running towards you screaming and waving his flag would be a good start.
Since the trains are nominally supposed to be 10 minutes apart and the flagman is supposed to start flagging immediately after the train stops he should have time to provide adequate protection.

Dave H.