diningcar Which way do the empties return to Sweet Grass, MT. ?? As mentioned earlier, I never saw eastward empties when I was driving I-40 between Williams, AZ and Albuq.
Which way do the empties return to Sweet Grass, MT. ?? As mentioned earlier, I never saw eastward empties when I was driving I-40 between Williams, AZ and Albuq.
Well, you most certainly should have seen grain empties on the "Southern Transcon": Cars released from feed lots in the San Joaquin Valley returning east for yet further loading in the Midwest.
As for the grain trains received from CN and CP, the empties historically return via the Inside Gateway (through Klamath Falls, Oregon). However, many sidings are quite short on this route, so the southward trains run at their optimum length, and the northward trains are restricted to about 4200 feet or so (I forgot the exact length). So, empties go in two sections as far as Wishram, and are combined there.
Mark Meyer
I imagine they return via the Inside Gateway/Oregon Trunk to Wishram, WA then onto Shelby, MT. Those well versed in the PNW can confirm or correct my assumption.
VerMontanan Many grain loads do receive the mid-train DP units @ Gallup. This is a method that began there in 2001 and continues to this day. The road crew is assisted by a hostler/herder crew at the yard. Gallup has a herder position o/d around the clock, and a hostler will we called off extra board 8 when needed ChuckCobleigh Once and sometimes twice a day, a westbound "worm" goes through Tehachapi, consisting of about 150-160 60-foot covered hoppers with four units on the front, three about 2/3 of the way back and two on the tail. If you are lucky, you can see the trains leave the fuel racks at Belen without the mid-train power. According to the chatter on the comments to the Belen feed, the three mid-train units are cut in at Gallup. At any rate, the "worms" when seen coming through Barstow have the mid-train units cut in, so we know that it is east of there, at any rate. The trains are ideally 110 cars - which are what shuttle trains are marketed at - but they can run a few cars more. Yes, 4X3X2 is the configuration for westward to Tehachapi. The usual procedure was the train arriving Amarillo 2X2, and 2 more units would be added to the head end somewhere - usually on the Hereford sub - with three more adding midtrain. Interesting that it is again Gallup. This is unpopular with the power managers as the extra power is only needed departing Barstow, but anywhere else, like Belen, Winslow, Needles, or Barstow is difficult due to all the other activity, even if just the many crew changes. Gallup, on the other hand, is not a scheduled crew change, and the road crew is assisted (usually) by a roadswitch crew there. So, even though it is a bit short of 1200 extra miles (roundtrip from Barstow to Gallup and back, since the power usually arrives in Gallup on eastward trains), it can be less hassel operationally....
ChuckCobleigh Once and sometimes twice a day, a westbound "worm" goes through Tehachapi, consisting of about 150-160 60-foot covered hoppers with four units on the front, three about 2/3 of the way back and two on the tail. If you are lucky, you can see the trains leave the fuel racks at Belen without the mid-train power. According to the chatter on the comments to the Belen feed, the three mid-train units are cut in at Gallup. At any rate, the "worms" when seen coming through Barstow have the mid-train units cut in, so we know that it is east of there, at any rate.
Once and sometimes twice a day, a westbound "worm" goes through Tehachapi, consisting of about 150-160 60-foot covered hoppers with four units on the front, three about 2/3 of the way back and two on the tail. If you are lucky, you can see the trains leave the fuel racks at Belen without the mid-train power. According to the chatter on the comments to the Belen feed, the three mid-train units are cut in at Gallup. At any rate, the "worms" when seen coming through Barstow have the mid-train units cut in, so we know that it is east of there, at any rate.
The trains are ideally 110 cars - which are what shuttle trains are marketed at - but they can run a few cars more. Yes, 4X3X2 is the configuration for westward to Tehachapi. The usual procedure was the train arriving Amarillo 2X2, and 2 more units would be added to the head end somewhere - usually on the Hereford sub - with three more adding midtrain. Interesting that it is again Gallup. This is unpopular with the power managers as the extra power is only needed departing Barstow, but anywhere else, like Belen, Winslow, Needles, or Barstow is difficult due to all the other activity, even if just the many crew changes. Gallup, on the other hand, is not a scheduled crew change, and the road crew is assisted (usually) by a roadswitch crew there. So, even though it is a bit short of 1200 extra miles (roundtrip from Barstow to Gallup and back, since the power usually arrives in Gallup on eastward trains), it can be less hassel operationally....
While living in AZ, 1992-2015, I drove along I-40 between Williams and Albuq. many time and have seen solid grain trains westbound. Do not recall seeing any empties going east.
Additional info just recovered indicates BNSF ceased all freight operations between La Junta and Bernaillo in 2008, with only local freight switching between Belen and Bernaillo.
Bruce Kelly BNSF was running grain trains from Sweet Grass, MT, to central CA via Denver long before that February avalanche on Marias Pass. If not due to traffic, track, or weather-related issues down the Oregon Trunk/Inside Gateway, then possibly due to the congestion and crew shortages that have been chronic through the Sandpoint-Hauser-Spokane area, and clear on down to Pasco. Some of that congestion is due to the extremely high volumes of soybeans and other ag crops which the U.S. began exporting to China via PNW ports late last summer and continuing through this winter. Also, it's not unusual to see some of BNSF's baretables (including repositioning moves of empty containers) and manifests between the PNW and southern CA being routed via Denver.
BNSF was running grain trains from Sweet Grass, MT, to central CA via Denver long before that February avalanche on Marias Pass. If not due to traffic, track, or weather-related issues down the Oregon Trunk/Inside Gateway, then possibly due to the congestion and crew shortages that have been chronic through the Sandpoint-Hauser-Spokane area, and clear on down to Pasco.
Some of that congestion is due to the extremely high volumes of soybeans and other ag crops which the U.S. began exporting to China via PNW ports late last summer and continuing through this winter.
Also, it's not unusual to see some of BNSF's baretables (including repositioning moves of empty containers) and manifests between the PNW and southern CA being routed via Denver.
Thanks Bruce for the input. Sounds like many issues added up to re-routing these trains.
VerMontanan The likely reason this train detoured away from the regular route was a service interruption caused by avalanche activity along the railroad on the south edge of Glacier National Park last week. The train was run south from Shelby rather than west; one fewer train in the backlog.
The likely reason this train detoured away from the regular route was a service interruption caused by avalanche activity along the railroad on the south edge of Glacier National Park last week. The train was run south from Shelby rather than west; one fewer train in the backlog.
You'd be right about that. Just found this article. BNSF and its contractors started conducting avalanche mitigation, and clearing during the last week of February.
ChuckCobleigh I think the term "worm" comes from the long string of brown BNSF 60-footers, or maybe that's what the trains look like snaking down from Tehachapi to Bakersfield.
I think the term "worm" comes from the long string of brown BNSF 60-footers, or maybe that's what the trains look like snaking down from Tehachapi to Bakersfield.
Seems our detoured train has garnered quite a following across the web. Alot of pictures have been posted in various BNSF and railfan groups on facebook and other social media. I came across this compilation video from Virtual Railfan youtube page. The grain train can be seen at 1:30 into the video at the Belen Terminal with a 3x2 setup. Then at 17:42 going through Flagstaff in a 3x3x2 setup confirming what was mentioned above about adding power in Gallup, NM.
caldreamerThat route is a longer way around, but checking the BNSF interactive system map I can understand why the BNSF avoids the Raton Pass. Thanks for the correction. Caldreamer
Caldreamer
In reading some of my RR books about the ATSF, the Raton route was almost exclusively for passenger business once they got the Belen bypass.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
That route is a longer way around, but checking the BNSF interactive system map I can understand why the BNSF avoids the Raton Pass. Thanks for the correction.
dreamer, several years ago BNSF made the decision to avoid Raton Pass with its freight operations. Freight from Denver-Pueblo now routes as described above. Freight northward from Amarillo uses the former C&S line through Dalhart, TX and Clayton, NM and on to Trinidad, CO and Pueblo. The Raton Pass line is now soley used by Amtrak #3 and #4
The train came down from Denver according to sitings on the JointLine Railfans.groups.io forum. Nothing mentioned south of Pueblo, but, I would assume they would south to Belen then west to Barstow and up to Oakdale. That is the most direct route.
SD60MAC9500 When the train was on the ST it was running a 3x3x2 setup.
caldreamer Last week there was a loaded grain train off the CP from Sweetgrass, MT to Oakdale, CA. Ran down the BNSF Pikes Peaks sub from Denver to Pueblo. Then it would have run through New Mexico and Arizona to the Cajon Pass and up the San Juaquin Valley to Oakdale.
Last week there was a loaded grain train off the CP from Sweetgrass, MT to Oakdale, CA. Ran down the BNSF Pikes Peaks sub from Denver to Pueblo. Then it would have run through New Mexico and Arizona to the Cajon Pass and up the San Juaquin Valley to Oakdale.
That's the train I'm talking about in this thread. As Diningcar stated this train would veer onto the Pueblo Sub after coming off the Joint Line for the Boise City Sub avoiding the Spanish Peaks, Twin Peaks and Dalhart Subs (ex-Colorado & Southern) with its curvy route and stiff grades. I'm not keen on where BNSF does power modifying in any of these areas. When the train was on the ST it was running a 3x3x2 setup.
Then it would have run through New Mexico and Arizona to the Cajon Pass and up the San Juaquin Valley to Oakdale.
Caldreamer: From Pueblo it would have gone east to Las Animas Jct. Then south to Amarillo to join the southern transcon and then west to Barstow; then over Tehachapi Pass to Bakersfield and then north to Oakdale.
SD60MAC9500 Appreicate the info VM, and 70Dude. I'm familiar with the CP-UP routing. I know quite a bit of Potash as well heads through the Kingsport gateway bound for Portland I believe.. Canpotex Terminal?
Appreicate the info VM, and 70Dude. I'm familiar with the CP-UP routing. I know quite a bit of Potash as well heads through the Kingsport gateway bound for Portland I believe.. Canpotex Terminal?
That is correct. Several years ago, some of Canpotex trains were even interchanged to BNSF at Sweet Grass.
And it's not just Canada-origin/destination stuff through Eastport/Kingsgate. Traffic (mostly grain) from North Dakota and Minnesota (and I believe one elevator each in South Dakota and Montana) move this way, too, to and from ports in Oregon and Washington State via Portal, ND and occasionally Noyes, MN.
In fact, UP takes more grain to the Pacific Northwest via Eastport than through Pocatello, Nampa, and La Grande.
https://www.freightwaves.com/news/commentary-moving-grain-is-a-major-market-for-u-s-and-canadian-railroads
It's likely an anomaly due to a service interruption or some other reason. Normally, these trains do head west at Shelby and operate via Wishram and Keddie.
Following up on what SD70Dude said, CN delivers such trains to BNSF at Vancouver/Thornton yard, whereas CP trains are interchanged at Coutts/Sweet Grass. Origin locations on CP include Yorkton and Lloydminster in Saskatchewan and Camrose and Wilson (southeast of Lethbridge) in Alberta.
For grain trains with UP delivery, CP interchanges to UP at Kingsgate/Eastport. UP and CN don't have a direct interchange point in the West, so BNSF takes them from Vancouver/Thorton to the UP at Portland/Albina.
CN runs California-bound grain or feed trains as well, interchanging them to BNSF in Vancouver. Ours usually originate at the Lloydminster ADM plant, or at Cargill's new Camrose, AB mill (also served by CP).
There are several other such mills across the Canadian prairies.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
I came across something very intereresting and head scratching today.. CP-BNSF operate many as needed grain trains via the interchange at Sweet Grass, MT to California feedlots.. A hogger on the BNSF Seligman Sub FB group posted a picture of a particular grain train operating from Sweet Grass, MT to Oakdale, CA.. You would figure this train runs via Shelby, MT to Wishram, WA. Turning Left at Wishram down the old Oregon Trunk/Inside Gateway to Bieber, CA. Then using UP trackage rights to Stockton then to Oakdale on BNSF's own track. Well no... Somehow this train ends up on BNSF's Southern Transcon. So a few questions. Do all the grain trains from SG destined for CA take this routing? Is this an anamoly? Or is BNSF avoiding using its trackage rights on UP for these trains?
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