Going back in time. CP was orignally planning to build through the much lower and northerly Yellowhead Pass through the continental divide on the Alberta-B.C. border. Due to Government stipulations and encroaching American interest. CP built a line through the more rugged Southern Canadian Rockies, and Selkirk Mountains.. Beginning In the mid 70's CP would begin to study on how to increase capacity on it's Rogers Pass line. Projected traffic increases would lead CP to develop options to lower the westbound grade over Rogers Pass. Starting in 1982 completing in 1988. CP's Roger Pass realignment project eliminated the passes stiff and difficult 2.2% westbound grade through the Selkirk Mountains to a easier 1% grade with a grade of .07% westbound inside the Mount MacDonald Tunnel. This project ranks as a personal favorite of mine, and I doubt we'll see anything of this scale anytime soon, if ever again... I found this excellent documentary online years back. Watching this will give you an idea why lines such as: Raton Pass, Saluda Grade, Milwaukees PCE's, etc. no longer handle freight traffic or are outright abandoned. Enjoy the documentary.
Great movie. Interesting how politics and nation building influenced railroad routes. In the East the Intercolonial (same chief engineer, Samual Fleming, as the Canadian Pacfic) built along the north shore of New Brunswick, primarily to avoid the American border and potential capture by American forces. The Canadian Pacific was built for the same purpose.. the promise of a railroad in return for becoming part of Canada, but the route for the CP was chosen as close to the US border as possible to prevent rogue forces (JJ Hill and the Great Northern) from entering the Province and establishing closer north south ties. In hindsight BC likely would be an American state today as trade with neighbouring states would have more closely aligned that province with American interests over the coming 50 years.
Ulrich but the route for the CP was chosen as close to the US border as possible to prevent rogue forces (JJ Hill and the Great Northern) from entering the Province and establishing closer north south ties.
but the route for the CP was chosen as close to the US border as possible to prevent rogue forces (JJ Hill and the Great Northern) from entering the Province and establishing closer north south ties.
But not quite close enough to the U.S. Border. Those in British Columbia residing even closer to the border wanted an east-west railway and were growing leery of Canadian James J. Hill and his branch lines entering the province from the United States. CP didn't have the money to build it, so the Canadian federal government gave the CP money to build its own line across Crowsnest Pass into Southeastern B.C., and in exchange, CP would move grain and farm machinery at a reduced rate "forever." (The "Crow Rate.") Forever came in 1995 when the program was discontinued, but the Crowsnest Pass line did give CP a foothold in Southeastern BC, and GN abandoned most of its branch lines into that part of the province. When the coal boom in the Sparwood area was starting in the late 1960s, GN proposed a subsidiary to basically retrace its abandoned branch line (from Rexford, MT) into the area. Assuming that a coal export port would be build on the U.S. West Coast, GN could handle the coal traffic to the Pacific at minimal grades (1% or less) compared to CP at the time, which would have to use its main line with its 2.2% grades over Rogers Pass. The province was relatively sympathetic to granting a charter to a GN subsidiary to construct a railroad to tap the coal, but the CP appealed the charter in court, and prevailed. It's interesting to speculate what might have happened had GN (and it would have been BN by that time) had been able to access the area, and if the volume of coal it handled would have precluded the need for CP to construct the Mount Macdonald tunnel, as coal traffic was the primary impetus for the new tunnel. I suspect it would have been constructed anyway, given grain and other commodities, and that the port of Vancouver likely would have constructed the Roberts Bank superport (where the coal is exported today) regardless. So, GN got the shaft twice by Canadian government entities (paying for the competition's railroad, then denied access), but when the railroad was built to Roberts Bank, it had to cross the ex-GN main line from Vancouver to Seattle, and because of that, BN got access to Roberts Bank, just like CP, CN, and BCOL, which they use for coal trains from the Powder River Basin....
Also, much later on, in the mid-2010s, Teck (coal company around Sparwood) was getting really unhappy with CP service, but of course CP had a monopoly in the area. Teck then announced that it was going to start routing its metallurgic coal trains destined to Burns Harbor, Indiana to the nearest non-CP railroad it could, which meant interchanging the trains to BNSF at Coutts, AB/Sweet Grass, MT so BNSF got the long haul. The shipments were not frequent, but they continued for years (and still might be). It was a very politically-charged situation between CP and the coal company and BNSF wanted to do anything to keep the business. It only took about 36 hours for a round trip (empty to come back as load) from Sweet Grass. BNSF always had power (CP wouldn't let some or all of the BNSF power go through) and crews at the ready to receive the trains back, but it was not unusual for CP to delay moving the train out of Coutts for over a day on the empties trip, just to emphasize how poor the service could be on this route. Teck didn't budge, and every time one of those coal trains rolled across the border onto the Montana prairie, I figured somewhere James J. Hill was snickering at William Van Horne....
Mark Meyer
All true enough, and that was the justification for building the Kettle Valley Railway. Hill was aggressively expanding his empire into southern BC to service the silver mines that were springing up. The KV was built to provide an east west shipping option.
Ironically Teck was a CP spinoff a few years earlier..
Has the 'maintenance free' track in the long tunnel, actually been maintenance free during the past 30 years of operation?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD Has the 'maintenance free' track in the long tunnel, actually been maintenance free during the past 30 years of operation?
No and from what I know sections of the slab track has been "patched" or replaced a few times. Here's a video I found of a ride through Mount MacDonald Tunnel. CP upgraded Mount MacDonald Tunnel in 2019. Not sure if slab track replacement was even a part of that program. That might have been only power, and comm upgrades.
Don't know about the slab track, but the shorter Mt. Shaughnessy tunnel (only 1.14 miles) required major repair work in 2002.
http://www.okthepk.ca/dataCprSiding/articles/201111/news02.htm
In 2002 there were still a large number of senior employees who were experienced in pusher operations. That is no longer the case, and I've heard CP guys speculate that as a result it would be much harder to perform such major work today.
A loaded unit train required 12 SD40-2's to get it up the Connaught track, this same train would only require 2 or 3 units on CN's line.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBPVTEx9Syw
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
The Crow Rate was eventually extended to cover CN as well.
I didn't know about the GN/BN 1960s/70s charter (named the Kootenay & Elk Railway) until now, that would have been quite the project.
Much of the original ROW north of Rexford became submerged after about 1973, as the Libby Dam neared completion and began filling its reservoir, Lake Koocanusa (Kootenay-Canada-USA). This was the same dam project that resulted in the construction of the Flathead Tunnel.
BC Highway 3 was built on much of the ROW east/north of Elko even earlier, leaving very little of the original grade available for tracklaying. Perhaps CP could have been forced to grant trackage rights to BN between Elko and the mines in exchange for BN helping pay for the construction of the Fording Sub and other track upgrades, and the additional costs of a new above water line might have been borne by the Corps, as part of the dam project.
The tale of the Hill-Van Horne rivalry in southern B.C. is well documented in Barrie Sanford's two books on the Kettle Valley Railway ("McCulloch's Wonder" and "Steel Rails and Iron Men"). GN actually did complete its own Coast-Kootenay route, signing an agreement with CP to share track between Princeton and Hope (GN signed a separate agreement with Canadian Northern to get trackage rights west of Hope). GN built the section from Princeton to Brookmere and retained ownership of it until 1945, when they sold it to CP for $1.5 million (a year earlier they had paid CP and CN nearly $5.5 million to cancel the trackage rights agreements).
GN only ever operated one through train across this route, an inspection/memorial special carrying Louis Hill and a group of other officials in September 1916 (Jim Hill had died a few months earlier). No other GN trains ever ran across Coquihalla Pass.
Since we're speculating about alternate history, Canadian Northern had surveyed a line from Calgary to the Crowsnest coalfields via Fort MacLeod, but it was never completed, only a small amount of grading was ever done. Perhaps if this line had been completed it would have linked up with the GN line near Michel, and CN and GN could have partnered to make a second through route between Calgary and the Pacific Northwest, in competition with the CP-UP Spokane International line.
Back to reality, Teck's frustration with CP has continued, and they have negotiated shipping agreements that will see many if not all of their trains interchanged to CN in Kamloops, even if they are going to Vancouver. A minority of their trains have been going to Prince Rupert for some years now, originally the CP power always ran through, but more recently it has been getting swapped out for CN units at Kamloops most of the time.
SD70Dude: Barrie Sanford's book "The pictorial history of Railroading in British Columbia" has a bit on the proposed GN route back into the coalfields of Southeastern B.C. The railroad in British Columbia was to be the "Kootenay and Elk" and would run from Sparwood to the border, south of Elko. A railroad with a provincial charter wasn't allowed to cross an international border, so GN announced that it wouldn't. It would just to to the border - exactly to the border, and in about the space of joint between rails, the GN would be built to connect on the south side. This is what brought the CP to court to challenge. And yes, the Kootenay and Elk was planning to go north of Eureka as the previous rail right-of-way (and even its junction point of Rexford, which was later moved above the lake) would be overcome by Lake Koocanusa. So, the coal would have had to go south to Stryker, then through Flathead Tunnel. The climb from Brimstone to the east portal of the tunnel (1%) would have been the steepest climb on the route, assuming a port facility somewhere like Longview.
As for the Teck trains using the CN west of Kamloops to Roberts Bank: I assume the CP power continues through to Roberts Bank as swapping at the CN Kamloops yard would be awkward and/or require a reverse move. Considering that all westward CP trains (coal or not) operating on CP switch to CN about 55 miles west of Kamloops (paired track to the Vancouver area), it's hard to see how performance would be much better. Does show that Teck really really is trying to make a point.
I should clarify, I don't know if the Vancouver-bound Teck trains swap power at Kamloops. I was referring to the Prince Rupert-bound trains, they seem to normally run at about 150 cars, on CP they need 4 AC units in a 2x1x1 configuration, CN will send it out with three units of any kind, set up 2x0x1. The ruling grade they face between Kamloops and Prince Rupert is the 0.6% Albreda Hill between Blue River and Valemount, as the line climbs over the divide between the Thompson and Canoe River watersheds.
Here's a Supreme Court decision on the Kootenay & Elk v. Canadian Pacific case. Some interesting details in there:
https://decisions.scc-csc.ca/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/5233/index.do
SD60MAC9500
The video mentions Glacier National Park! Does the Canadian Glacier National Park adjoin the US Glacier National Park, or are they in two separate areas?
BaltACD The video mentions Glacier National Park! Does the Canadian Glacier National Park adjoin the US Glacier National Park, or are they in two separate areas?
Canada's Glacier National Park is much farther north, between Golden and Revelstoke, BC.
Waterton Lakes National Park adjoins the American Glacier National Park in extreme southwestern Alberta. There is a Provincial Park in extreme southeastern BC that adjoins both of them.
[Answered above]
SD70Dude Back to reality, Teck's frustration with CP has continued, and they have negotiated shipping agreements that will see many if not all of their trains interchanged to CN in Kamloops, even if they are going to Vancouver. A minority of their trains have been going to Prince Rupert for some years now, originally the CP power always ran through, but more recently it has been getting swapped out for CN units at Kamloops most of the time.
VerMontanan As for the Teck trains using the CN west of Kamloops to Roberts Bank: I assume the CP power continues through to Roberts Bank as swapping at the CN Kamloops yard would be awkward and/or require a reverse move. Considering that all westward CP trains (coal or not) operating on CP switch to CN about 55 miles west of Kamloops (paired track to the Vancouver area), it's hard to see how performance would be much better. Does show that Teck really really is trying to make a point.
Greasemonkey I feel it's worthwhile noting that Teck is changing the routing of the coal to CN more as a means of direct shipping to their own shipping terminal (Neptune Terminals) on Vancouver's north shore, than it is due to unhappiness with CP. The vast majority of the coal will no longer be going to Roberts Bank, but to Neptune Terminals. CN is putting the finishing touches on a yard expansion in Kamloops to allow for the handover of coal trains, and CP is currently adding some trackage to the interchange with CN, to be able to accomodate the coal trains and not block CP's main line while waiting for CN to accept the trains.
Thank you for this. Very interesting to hear the coal is going to Neptune. But I still don't see the need then for the interchange at Kamloops if the change is about going to a different export terminal. Westward CP trains (through directional running) use CN from Basque to Matsqui Jct. and now presumably they will continue on CN over the Fraser River Bridge to Willingdon Jct.
Are any of these places in the Vancouver area not viewed as acceptable interchange (even if on paper) locations?
Will the yard expansion at Kamloops be in the current yard or elsewhere on the alignment used by the coal trains?
Also worth noting that CN and CP hand off trains to each other in Vancouver all the time. None of the grain elevators have access from both railways and there are two different terminals for potash and sulphur, one for each commodity on each railway (though a sulphur or potash train that originates on one railway can be destined for the terminal on the other).
Our trains for CP show as being billed to Coquitlam, but I'm not sure if they go onto CP at Matsqui (Mission) or if they run through Thornton Yard, cross the Fraser River at New Westminster and then turn right (north) at Sapperton. CP also builds at least one daily train (M310) for CN, this is usually a pain to switch out in Edmonton as CP doesn't do any pre-blocking, they just throw all the CN traffic into one track in whatever order it happened to arrive.
Some of our intermodal trains originate from the old Main Yard (downtown, beside Pacific Central Station) with traffic from the terminals along CP's waterfront trackage. During their Hunter era CP had managed to royally screw up their Vancouver terminal operations, it got bad enough that CN (or contractors running CN locomotives) ended up switching some of the terminals off CP trackage to maintain service.
VerMontanan Will the yard expansion at Kamloops be in the current yard or elsewhere on the alignment used by the coal trains?
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