Speaking of long trains, I spent a couple of months in 1967 and again in 1968 in the Utica, NY area, and was amazed by the trains up there. Although I had always considered 100 cars to be a long train down here, I remember counting up to 200 cars on trains up there, and they FLEW! I was first in line at a crossing once, and my car was rocking from the wind stirred up by the cars. Of course, the cars were smaller and lighter than today's, but still... I don't remember how much power was on the front, but I did not see any helpers in the trains.
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"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
I remember the long trains of the Soo Line. The interpretation I heard though was they were good for operations but not for serving customers well.
tree68IC/ICG coal trains (southern Illinois to Chicago) were usually ~100 cars. That was in the early 1970's.
I started my career with the Chicago electric utility in 1961 and in 1964, it started construction on a new large two 500 MW unit coal generating station on the NW side of the Des Plaines river in Rockdale IL. On the SE side of the river was an older coal plant that received its coal by barge. That station was sandwiched between the ATSF RR & the GM&O's Coal City track. They built a rotary dumper and a three track yard on the bluff next to the GM&O where they could park three 40 car sections of a 120 car unit train.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Rockdale,+IL+60436/@41.4922443,-88.1244593,1787m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x880e63d417b9a4a5:0x1911d2110284f671!8m2!3d41.5061419!4d-88.1145036
They bought 260 100+ ton coal gondolas and the GM&O bought about 8 new EMD SD40 units. This made two unit trains which made overnight trips between the Joliet and a mine SE of St. Louis meeting somewhere South of Springfield. We had a small EMD Switcher that had a flat car that had a radio control hut on it that would pull the three sections through the dumper and return them back to their siding. Around 4 PM, GM&O would return with their EMDs and take the train south. It was my understanding that this was, if not the first unit train, it was almost the first.
The coal dumper operator after the switcher was connected to its cut of cars would run through the dumper, all the operator had to do was push a botton to dump the car and return it upright, push button #2 and the switcher would advance one car length. Like your shampoo bottle, says, "REPEAT". Oh by the way ,dumper was built extra strong to allow the big EMD road unit's to run though it as there was no space to build trackage to place the train in the yard south of the dumper. The plant is now gas fired and the dumper is gone. Conveyer bridge across the river remains.
And one thing I learned was that there are different types of wiring schematics for different disciplines. Electric utility relaying schematics, Railroad signaling schematics, Process control schematics. I had learned the first two but fortunatly, did not have to learn a third.
Now that I think about it the entire trackside experience at that time may have made trains seem longer..The slow roll through town.. The symphony of screeching flanges together with the slow rhythmic pounding of steel wheel over jointed rail.. and finally the caboose with a man in striped coveralls and cap hanging precariously off the back ... on his radio.. no doubt notifying the headend that the train had at long last cleared the town's busy main street.
SD70DudeOn the modern railroad car length can vary widely (an 89' autorack is more than twice the length of a 40' sand hopper), so train length is based on footage and tonnage as opposed to the number of cars. The railroad's train building guidelines may require a DP remote once the train exceeds a certain length or weight. The true limiting factor is siding length. Unless you ignore that and try Hunter Harrison's idea of running 10,000'+ trains in both directions on a line with 6,000' sidings, as was tried on CN across northern Ontario for a surprising amount of time.
The railroad's train building guidelines may require a DP remote once the train exceeds a certain length or weight.
The true limiting factor is siding length. Unless you ignore that and try Hunter Harrison's idea of running 10,000'+ trains in both directions on a line with 6,000' sidings, as was tried on CN across northern Ontario for a surprising amount of time.
Prior to EHH CSX was running 9K foot trains. On territory wiithout 9K foot or longer sididings, the 9K foot trains were limited to a specified direction.
Amamzing how Yardmaster's that know a 5K foot yard track won't hold 5100 feet think it is perfectly all right to run a 6400 foot train when the limit is 6200 feet.
When I hired out, cars was the measure - there wasn't a computer system to get the lengths of cars from UMLER and calculate actual train lengths as is done today.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
On the modern railroad car length can vary widely (an 89' autorack is more than twice the length of a 40' sand hopper), so train length is based on footage and tonnage as opposed to the number of cars.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
MP173 Tree: First of all, I want to thank you for turning me on to the Deshler cam and scanner. Switched to that over a month ago and never went back to Berea or Chesterton. Fascinating operation there. A minor point...a 13000 ft train from the north south to east west main can operate at 10mph, whihc is 14 ft per second...that 13000 ft train will result in a 15:30 minute delay not 25 minutes...still a darn long wait! Those train making the turn are land barges. The Q202/203 trains are now combo intermodal and auto rack sometimes with general freight included. One typically can tell if a CSX train is greater than 10,000 ft if it has distributed power. BTW did you notice that yesterday there were 3 - Q351s making the turn? Each one of them timed out and calculated to in excess of 12,000 ft. These are general freight trains, not intermodal. One must wonder....when will CSX add a second Chicago - Cincy train, or perhaps this is just due to weather issues. Ed
Tree:
First of all, I want to thank you for turning me on to the Deshler cam and scanner. Switched to that over a month ago and never went back to Berea or Chesterton. Fascinating operation there.
A minor point...a 13000 ft train from the north south to east west main can operate at 10mph, whihc is 14 ft per second...that 13000 ft train will result in a 15:30 minute delay not 25 minutes...still a darn long wait!
Those train making the turn are land barges. The Q202/203 trains are now combo intermodal and auto rack sometimes with general freight included. One typically can tell if a CSX train is greater than 10,000 ft if it has distributed power.
BTW did you notice that yesterday there were 3 - Q351s making the turn? Each one of them timed out and calculated to in excess of 12,000 ft. These are general freight trains, not intermodal. One must wonder....when will CSX add a second Chicago - Cincy train, or perhaps this is just due to weather issues.
Ed
If the train flirts with the MAX of 10 MPH - weed weasels might take exception - 8 or 9 MPH or less is likely.
Suspect 3 Q351's is a result of Western carriers finally making delayed intechanges from their systems to CSX and CSX having to move the traffic.
I tried to make the calculation with FPS numbers - obviously they didn't compute...
I like watching Deshler because it's so much more than just trains going by. And the chat is great - many knowledgeable people willing to share their expertise.
I don't watch all the time - but I usually have it up on the computer so when I walk by I can sit for a bit and see what's up.
Looks like you're aware of the log. I think the reason for so many 351 was the logjam in Chicago.
Spell out my screen name here and you've found me on the chat.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Ulrichwow 160 cars is long. Likely my youthful perception of a long train was due to them also being relatively slow moving (compared to trains of today) as they made their way through town..
The superintendent that raked me wanted 200 car trains. All my prior experiences the trigger to run a train was anything OVER 70 cars.
Overmod Backshop That was before my time but I remember readin stories about it because it was so unusual. CGW listened carefully to the same promise KCS did -- the promise of more than big steam-articulated power in one locomotive. They in fact numbered six F units the same to produce one, and presumptively ran it regularly as One Big Articulated Motor. (KCS set Erie-Builts in ABBA sets of four, as 8000hp locomotives)
Backshop That was before my time but I remember readin stories about it because it was so unusual.
CGW listened carefully to the same promise KCS did -- the promise of more than big steam-articulated power in one locomotive. They in fact numbered six F units the same to produce one, and presumptively ran it regularly as One Big Articulated Motor.
(KCS set Erie-Builts in ABBA sets of four, as 8000hp locomotives)
BackshopThat was before my time but I remember readin stories about it because it was so unusual.
I recall Southern Pacific running some pretty long and heavy freights back in the late 80's.
IA and eastern CGW used to run 150 cars with six F units that some called mortage lifters in the 1950s. But on some lines they would run 200 cars with eight F units. Gary
CGW used to run 150 cars with six F units that some called mortage lifters in the 1950s. But on some lines they would run 200 cars with eight F units. Gary
IC/ICG coal trains (southern Illinois to Chicago) were usually ~100 cars. That was in the early 1970's.
I've related before that I once saw what appeared to be two trains of empty hoppers joined as one train. Because of how hard the two locomotives were working, I counted the cars - 200.
Perhaps a measure of what was normal "back in the day" is the two sidings at South Deshler - both around 7,000 feet (I forget the exact numbers).
The longest regular trains that I remember from the 70s were the Detroit Edison unit trains that, IIRC, ran with 120 cars. Most other trains were 100 cars long or less.
wow 160 cars is long. Likely my youthful perception of a long train was due to them also being relatively slow moving (compared to trains of today) as they made their way through town..
A BIG train in the early 70's on my carrier was in the near neighborhood of 100 cars. Cars of the are were nominally either 40 footers or 50 footers, some gons were 52 footer and there were a smattering of 60 footers. Computers of the age did not produce information on the train length, however, most trains were well under a mile in length.
When I went back into operations in 1990, I got severly criticized for allowing a train out of Tampa to operate with only 160 cars.
Would be interesting to know how long on average trains were 40 plus years ago... maybe my memory is playing tricks on me. I was speaking to someone recently who began work for CP in 1950... he made mention that trains back in the 50s were much shorter... 35 cars on average... with a 50 car train being considered a long train. I guess with the coming of dieselization and the mu capability of diesels trains suddenly got alot longer in the 60s and through the 70s. 100 plus car trains seemed quite the norm by 1975.. although most of those cars were stubby 40 footers..
The chat on the Deshler webcam often includes "marking up" information gleaned from th on-line scanner. Thirteen thousand feet is not unusual.
What's worse at Deshler is that the transfers (wyes) are limited to ten miles per hour. For a 13,000 foot train, that's every bit of 25 minutes. And in doing so, a portion of the village is cut off from the rest without a multi-mile detour.
Many towns face similar situations.
In the last three days I've been treated to the sight of no less than four monster consists... with leading power long-hood-forward without ditchlights. Yes, that implies the speed you think, and usually the amount of extra 'whistling' too.
I'm talking about long trains. If some of the recent news articles are any indication, railroads have only just recently discovered that running longer trains improves overall utilization of crews and assets and reduces cost. I seem to recall very long trains 40 plus years ago. Growing up in the 70s, I well remember very long trains winding through my little town.. and the odd people like my dad getting frustrated waiting at crossings. "This train is never going to end" he'd say after sitting patiently at a crossing for 20 minutes. Long trains would of course be expected on busy lines like Tehachapi.. even back then.. but we'd see them even in remote quiet areas like northern Vermont. Driving along on a Saturday near sleepy Stowe, VT and then boom.. crossing.. long train.. "we're here for the day"! Now trains through those same areas tend to be shorter.. and run by short lines who've somehow managed to run them profitably after the big class 1s (with their mega long trains) decided those lines were nolonger profitable to them.
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