So this looks like they moved in the right direction of more space vs less though I do not like the smaller business jets as they are narrow bodied and that might detract from the 1-1 seating. Otherwise it seems like a good idea.
https://www.jsx.com/home/search?fbclid=IwAR06oK856IjLWBoI1ZZQJefcwsD9tgOUilYzWkYQc9TAgGng7RQJ-jMZd9k
Dallas to Houston fare is $99. I wonder how the proposed High Speed Rail system is going to compete with that?
If the highspeed rail is downtown to downtown I'd rather take the train. Or rent a car.. much easier..
UlrichAirports are a major hassle.. from finding parking, to navigating security, finding the gate, checking in luggage.. waiting in line.. figuring out the airline's do-it-yourself check in
Were you to arrive in a proper "Uber-style" vehicle to the curb, you'd avoid the entire parking hassle; were you to arrive in a proper autonomous vehicle, you would have full privacy and the usual benefits of personal transportation under your own control and sanitation. The only substantial difference between this and zunum-style regional air is that the jets are larger -- reasonably sized for the anticipated traffic, I think -- and use general-aviation facilities at larger (but not heavily trafficked) airports at this stage. I have to suspect that if they can keep from the temptation that killed People Express they might have an interesting business model there.
Note that you need at least 10 aircraft to equal one high-speed consist. That this does not inflate the marginal ticket cost tells you a great deal about the cost of dedicated private infrastructure...
I didn't.. which is why I edited my post. Nevertheless.. I'd bet there's still alot of hassle.. 20 minutes from arrival at the terminal to getting into your seat on the plane.. I don't believe it. Finding a parking spot alone will take that long. But who knows.. maybe those airports are very small, with lots of parking adjacent to where the plane is. In any event, the rental car beats all the alternatives.. less hassle and door to door.. The real competition are the rental companies or car share services. Heck, let's not forget about the bus.. its a four hour ride city center to city center on an air conditioned coach..
UlrichFinding a parking spot alone will take that long.
If I were doing the planning, I'd have either an Uber or a shuttle driver on call for a 'priority' off-site parking location, by reasonable appointment or watching a tracker app. You would not go to the 'terminal'; you would go directly to where your off-site secure parking space is available, and even before you get out of the car your driver is helping with the bags and the passengers. Then you bypass the main terminal security, and perhaps go directly to general aviation as though you owned a private plane or had a jetshare. In any case I don't think jetways work with aircraft this size, so the old 'alternative' of a shuttle-bus lounge with special exit that conforms to the plane's doorway becomes attractive again.
But who knows.. maybe those airports are very small, with lots of parking adjacent to where the plane is.
Note that the same advance meeting the shuttle can be used for rental-car returns. The most recent car I rented was a hybrid, and I was checked into it in about 2 minutes, without advance reservation, and checked out of it in less than 30 seconds, at Newark Liberty (not a poster child for rapid efficient much of anything the last time I'd gone through it). Had a driver been waiting to take me to planeside, it is difficult to imagine even a fast people-mover that would get the job done as effectively.
In any event, the rental car beats all the alternatives... less hassle and door to door. And, of course, for any practical travel around the Northeast, this is true. Even if mass transit or Uber had been available, the cost to do what I did (visited friends, drove to Providence and Newport, then back via Columbia in Manhattan and out to East Hampton, Amagansett, and Montauk, then back via Princeton to Liberty for departure, with motels along the way)
Honestly, though, I see relatively little promise in long-distance car share services per se. There are too many scams, surprises, and drawbacks -- they are easily accommodated in even current 'rental' models, but not a taxi or jitney model without far more safeguards and oversight than current 'rideshare companies' could provide, let alone assure.
I have never quite forgotten the lessons of the Pickwick Nite Coach. When I first realized I could ride a reasonably comfortable seat from Memphis to Chicago overnight ... for $30 ... it made any Amtrak train doing the same for an order of magnitude more much less important as transportation. I can pay the same to go direct from Silver Spring (or Union Station) in Washington to 2 blocks from Penn Station in only about 40 minutes longer than the train, with far better WiFi and outlets. If some of the 'advantages' of mandatory 6' separation of passengers are incorporated into inside arrangements and seating, some very fine comfort could be arranged even on comparatively long trips at low incremental cost for those not needing aircraft speed. And I would argue that a fleet of these could provide the intermediate-city-pair transportation service of a LD train at dramatically lower cost... far more effectively and perhaps with far more actual amenities.
Ever flown into DFW or Bush in Houston. To say they are a Clusterscrewup of monumental proportions is putting it mildly. I would rather give birth to a set of Breech Twins without an epidurial than deal with flying into either one of those airports or dealing with the traffic just to get into and out of them. I have to go to Ohare near Chicago several times a year as my job requires I pick up VIP's for my boss to say I hate dealing with airport traffic is an understatement of the year. With COVID right now plus the TSA requirements there is no way in that they can get you on the plane in 20mins or less from a parking lot. Most airports your spending 20 mins just getting to the shuttle pickup area to the get to the terminal if your flying out.
Here (Toronto) we have off site parking near the airport where people generally leave their vehicles while off on their trip. The idea is you park your car and then a shuttle bus picks you up and wisks you to your terminal. In practice.. well.. you park your car.. walk a mile to the shuttle bus stand (loaded down with your bags in a biting cold wind).and then you wait and wait for the shuttle bus to come...which is less fun than it sounds when the temperatures are 30 below. That's our experience here.. maybe things work better in Houston and Dallas.. but I would rather drive 900 miles even if I have to pay a premium to do it. I've seen people close to meltdown trying to decipher airport and parking protocols..
CMStPnP So this looks like they moved in the right direction of more space vs less though I do not like the smaller business jets as they are narrow bodied and that might detract from the 1-1 seating. Otherwise it seems like a good idea. https://www.jsx.com/home/search?fbclid=IwAR06oK856IjLWBoI1ZZQJefcwsD9tgOUilYzWkYQc9TAgGng7RQJ-jMZd9k Dallas to Houston fare is $99. I wonder how the proposed High Speed Rail system is going to compete with that?
Here in Toronto, I can take the TTC airport bus from Kipling subway direct to the terminals or I can take the airport train that stops at the Bloor and Dundas station that is a 5 minute streetcar ride from where I live. I usually take the bus to the airport and the train when coming home as it's easier when I'm jet lagged.
Shadow the Cats ownerEver flown into DFW or Bush in Houston. To say they are a Clusterscrewup of monumental proportions is putting it mildly. I would rather give birth to a set of Breech Twins without an epidurial than deal with flying into either one of those airports or dealing with the traffic just to get into and out of them.
Jesus, Mary and Joseph. And I thought I detested DFW.
Listen, I've been to Texas several times and enjoyed the stays, I might be going back again sometime this year and am looking forward to it, but I'm dreading DFW!
Maybe I'll walk...
Ulrich I've seen people close to meltdown trying to decipher airport and parking protocols..
Don't get me started on Texas Route 35 North, South, East, and West...
UlrichNevertheless.. I'd bet there's still alot of hassle.. 20 minutes from arrival at the terminal to getting into your seat on the plane.. I don't believe it. Finding a parking spot alone will take that long. But who knows.. maybe those airports are very small, with lots of parking adjacent to where the plane is. In any event, the rental car beats all the alternatives..
From what I read / interpreted you drive your car almost up to the plane and they valet park it (they stated "we also have valet for your rental" somewhere in their material......which means they would turn in the rental for you or that might just be for their rental car partner). My suspicion is these are business jets leased and in their own hanger. Not sure if you have been in a business jet hanger before but they are pretty small with a capacity of no more than 4-6 jets under hanger cover. So walking from car to checkin to plane everything should be within a very short walk and indoors including the plane. That was my read, they could be also boarding the plane outdoors right in front of the hanger. Not sure which. Typically in the hanger the plane is dead but you can turn on the master switch and power up the internals in most hangers indoors you just can't fire up the APU or the Jets in a hanger. Business Jets come with a fairly strong battery though and you can power the interior lights and some limited front instruments off the battery for a time. HVAC would be external to the plane though until startup of APU and then engines.......I believe that is how it all works. Unless there is a rule against boarding in the hanger, they can board there. Tug to outside, start APU, Start engines, disconnect tug.....then Taxi.
Flintlock76Jesus, Mary and Joseph. And I thought I detested DFW. Listen, I've been to Texas several times and enjoyed the stays, I might be going back again sometime this year and am looking forward to it, but I'm dreading DFW! Maybe I'll walk...
Actually no. Fly Southwest into Dallas Love Field. It is run like airports were run in the 1970's and it's really a kick to watch. Check in fairly hassle free and fast, best part is landing there though, get off the plane and as soon as you get to baggage claim usually always your luggage is just comming out on a belt. The other thing of course is if you compare Southwests schedules out of Love Field with comparable flights from DFW, there is approx 10-15 min removed from the Love Field timetable compared with the DFW flight. I can tell you that 10-15 min is spent on the taxiway more than likely or waiting for a gate at DFW. Never had to wait for a gate at Love. Love Field is like watching a well tuned Swiss Watch. It's also a hell of a lot closer to Downtown Dallas than DFW. Love Fields choice of Food Eateries and Shopping is a lot nicer too. If your a tall guy like me there are only 3-4 seats on a Southwest 737 that are roughly equal to business class in legroom. Stewardess will point them out for you if you ask. Typically I am able to snag at least one with Early Bird Boarding privileges my employer pays for.
Thanks CMS', we'll remember that good advice!
UGH! Deleted
Flintlock76 My BIL lives in the Dallas Metroplex and we have flown down there a couple times to visit him always flying into DFW to see him. I thought Ohare traffic was bad and I hate Chicago with a Passion. Dallas is a whole different animal. They drive like they are all trying to set a land speed record down there and the second water hits their windshields it is like they all forget how to drive and turn into turkeys and look up. My hubby thankfully can drive again after a decade of not having his license so he does most of the city driving when we go into a major city now he is less scared of traffic than me. Even he was white knuckled in that area. He said I have not seen people driving this moronic since Atlanta after an ice storm. Shadow the Cats owner Ever flown into DFW or Bush in Houston. To say they are a Clusterscrewup of monumental proportions is putting it mildly. I would rather give birth to a set of Breech Twins without an epidurial than deal with flying into either one of those airports or dealing with the traffic just to get into and out of them. Jesus, Mary and Joseph. And I thought I detested DFW. Listen, I've been to Texas several times and enjoyed the stays, I might be going back again sometime this year and am looking forward to it, but I'm dreading DFW! Maybe I'll walk...
Shadow the Cats owner Ever flown into DFW or Bush in Houston. To say they are a Clusterscrewup of monumental proportions is putting it mildly. I would rather give birth to a set of Breech Twins without an epidurial than deal with flying into either one of those airports or dealing with the traffic just to get into and out of them.
CMStPnP Ulrich Nevertheless.. I'd bet there's still alot of hassle.. 20 minutes from arrival at the terminal to getting into your seat on the plane.. I don't believe it. Finding a parking spot alone will take that long. But who knows.. maybe those airports are very small, with lots of parking adjacent to where the plane is. In any event, the rental car beats all the alternatives.. From what I read / interpreted you drive your car almost up to the plane and they valet park it (they stated "we also have valet for your rental" somewhere in their material......which means they would turn in the rental for you or that might just be for their rental car partner). My suspicion is these are business jets leased and in their own hanger. Not sure if you have been in a business jet hanger before but they are pretty small with a capacity of no more than 4-6 jets under hanger cover. So walking from car to checkin to plane everything should be within a very short walk and indoors including the plane. That was my read, they could be also boarding the plane outdoors right in front of the hanger. Not sure which. Typically in the hanger the plane is dead but you can turn on the master switch and power up the internals in most hangers indoors you just can't fire up the APU or the Jets in a hanger. Business Jets come with a fairly strong battery though and you can power the interior lights and some limited front instruments off the battery for a time. HVAC would be external to the plane though until startup of APU and then engines.......I believe that is how it all works. Unless there is a rule against boarding in the hanger, they can board there. Tug to outside, start APU, Start engines, disconnect tug.....then Taxi.
Ulrich Nevertheless.. I'd bet there's still alot of hassle.. 20 minutes from arrival at the terminal to getting into your seat on the plane.. I don't believe it. Finding a parking spot alone will take that long. But who knows.. maybe those airports are very small, with lots of parking adjacent to where the plane is. In any event, the rental car beats all the alternatives..
It's not boarding in the hangar, and they aren't leased business jets. JSX, formerly known as JetSuite Express, owns(or long term leases them just like the commercial airlines) the business class jets and they operate out of a PRIVATE terminal that is located somewhere on the airport property. If an airport has a business jet center, then it has a completely separate private terminal just for private business jets and that is what JSX uses, there is no TSA security involved as these are not COMMERCIAL flights, even though anyone can buy the tickets. Boarding is out in front of this private terminal, mostly operated by FBO's aka Fixed Base Operator; if you want an idea of the set up just look at the following two examples: https://www.signatureflight.com/locations/sjc and https://www.atlanticaviation.com/location/SJC
That should give you an idea of how the service will work at least at origin and destination.
The aircraft isn't a business jet. It's a 20+ year old Embraer Regional Jet, originally fitted for 35 passengers. These jets are being rapidly retired by the regional airlines. They are high time airframes, and can be picked up in the desert for pennies on the dollar. That's the foundation of the business model. Also being tried by Ultimate Air out of Cinncinati, and Contour out of Nashville. Such operations usually fail without a connecting agreement with a major airline. The market is such, that a consumer can either afford a time share in a late model business jet, with an operation like ExecJet, or they're slumming it like the rest of us with mainstream airline travel. These outfits giving the illusion of private jet travel with low fares are suspect to say the least.
Overmod Ulrich Airports are a major hassle.. from finding parking, to navigating security, finding the gate, checking in luggage.. waiting in line.. figuring out the airline's do-it-yourself check in You evidently didn't see the part about the 20 minutes from arrival at the terminal to getting into your seat on the plane. I suspect a large part of this will involve TCA prequal checkin and Real ID ... but requiring clients to have obtained the necessary credentials is not absurd or showstopping, and in any case those documents will be required for commercial air by this October. They are smart, I think, to allow the two checked bags rather than deal with the carryon crap on that size aircraft. Were you to arrive in a proper "Uber-style" vehicle to the curb, you'd avoid the entire parking hassle; were you to arrive in a proper autonomous vehicle, you would have full privacy and the usual benefits of personal transportation under your own control and sanitation. The only substantial difference between this and zunum-style regional air is that the jets are larger -- reasonably sized for the anticipated traffic, I think -- and use general-aviation facilities at larger (but not heavily trafficked) airports at this stage. I have to suspect that if they can keep from the temptation that killed People Express they might have an interesting business model there. Note that you need at least 10 aircraft to equal one high-speed consist. That this does not inflate the marginal ticket cost tells you a great deal about the cost of dedicated private infrastructure...
Ulrich Airports are a major hassle.. from finding parking, to navigating security, finding the gate, checking in luggage.. waiting in line.. figuring out the airline's do-it-yourself check in
You evidently didn't see the part about the 20 minutes from arrival at the terminal to getting into your seat on the plane. I suspect a large part of this will involve TCA prequal checkin and Real ID ... but requiring clients to have obtained the necessary credentials is not absurd or showstopping, and in any case those documents will be required for commercial air by this October. They are smart, I think, to allow the two checked bags rather than deal with the carryon crap on that size aircraft.
The short check-in time is facilitated by the aircraft parking at a "fixed base operator" on the opposite side of the airport from the airline terminal. These are the businesses that park and service private aircraft. Further leading to the illusion that the passengers of this "airline" are getting a concierge service for $99.
Just looked up a flight. They appear to have 1 flight daily between Dallas and Houston. So the better question is, how is this upstart going to compete with Southwest, which just added flights to Houston Hobby, as part of a recently announced schedule expansion to several primary airports hey previously avoided, such as O'Hare, to name one other. The SWA fares are $153 one-way for remaining days in January, and between $67-$87 for just about every day in February. And of course, SWA offers many flights daily between DAL and Hobby, as well as Houston Intercontinental.
I predict we will be reading about the demise of JSX within a year.
Ulrich I didn't.. which is why I edited my post. Nevertheless.. I'd bet there's still alot of hassle.. 20 minutes from arrival at the terminal to getting into your seat on the plane.. I don't believe it. Finding a parking spot alone will take that long. But who knows.. maybe those airports are very small, with lots of parking adjacent to where the plane is. In any event, the rental car beats all the alternatives.. less hassle and door to door.. The real competition are the rental companies or car share services. Heck, let's not forget about the bus.. its a four hour ride city center to city center on an air conditioned coach..
Neither Dallas Love nor Houston Hobby are small airports by any measure. The only way to go from car to aircraft seat is TSA prequalified clearance plus arrival by cab, Uber, etc. Any personal automobile parked even in the lots by the terminal precludes any chance of boarding the aircraft with 20 minutes. And no mention of the time required to check baggage (yes, I realize most day-trips are carry-on only, still...)
MikeInPlano I predict we will be reading about the demise of JSX within a year.
You may be generous, California Pacific lasted about 2 months. OTOH, the flight from Carlsbad to San Jose was the most relaxing airliner flight I've had in decades.
Erik_Mag MikeInPlano I predict we will be reading about the demise of JSX within a year. You may be generous, California Pacific lasted about 2 months. OTOH, the flight from Carlsbad to San Jose was the most relaxing airliner flight I've had in decades.
JSX has been in operation since 2016. As someone who used their service from LAS to BUR, their operation is second to none. I was on the aircraft in less than 20 minutes on arrival to the Vegas airport, which is far larger than either Love or Hobby.
An "expensive model collector"
JSX will be shut down once they get popular enough to be noticed. Their bending of the rules can only last so long.
What rules are they bending? This is no different than the sell a seat or sell a % ownership services like https://flyxo.com/ or https://www.netjets.com/en-us/ in where they operate from.
Their demise will be their sucess. With pressure from the airports who feel like they are loosing money and from the larger Part 121 carriers who can sell seats at a loss if needed.
https://voiceofoc.org/2021/01/federal-judge-grants-temporary-win-for-charter-jet-service-suing-oc-over-new-john-wayne-airport-restrictions/
They're acting like a charter service when they're actually flying scheduled flights. They are trying to get around it by having the aircarft being owned by a subsidiary. That's what got them kicked out of Santa Ana.
Watch the situation at John Wayne very carefully. If the county's little machinations are upheld, watch as, like a string of firecrackers, other airports with money-losing commercial aviation act to restrict FBOs from serving operations like JetSuiteX.
Where that may become still more interesting is that many of the proposed regional feeder services would be expected to run into the general-aviation side of airports if "connecting" to scheduled airlines, and there would be significant benefits to the kind of scheduled operation JSX intends to run as opposed to requiring regional passengers to enter the terminal, pass through the TSA rigmarole, and then perhaps negotiate non-ADA passage to reach aircraft that jetways cannot conveniently access.
I'm not sure where the airport/airline dividing line is but airlines aren't governed by the ADA, but by the ACAA. There are many smaller airports that don't have jetways.
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