I ordered an item from Amazon. It's coming from Spokane, WA via UPS. Here's the tracking, so far:
In Transit
Hodgkins is UPS CACH. So, the item went by rail from Spokane to Chicago - almost certainly. Zero intermediate location reports. We know that UPS gets a whole boatload of real time reporting from the RRs. We also know that when it moves by truck, every UPS terminal it moves thru, whether sorted or not, there is a report and you see it on the tracking.
Why doesn't UPS provide similar for stuff moving by rail?
(FWIW, I'm guessing this will move from CACH to Atlanta by truck. Not much UPS moves in this lane on NS or CSX. They are too slow.)
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
I suppose it is an indication of how backward the rails remain, at least in this aspect of logistics, compared to other transportation modes.
When traveling by rail, the item is in a container and not out where the package label can be scanned to know where it is. They are not going to open the container every few cities just to scan all the packages to report the progress.
However, I have noted of late that sometimes it seems the tracking information is a bold face lie. I have watched the tracking info show the movement by truck from city to city all the way to "Out for Delivery" and then when it doesn't get delivered, the tracking info changes to an apology and a statement that it will be delivered the next day. Of course, when it doesn't show up then, it changes to claim it will be delivered soon. The next day, all the tracking info I have been reading is gone! Replaced with the package at the origin again, or maybe at some intermediate point again. Then it repeats the city by city track, but with different dates and times than before.
I think the tracking info, when it does not get a scan confirmation, reports where the package is assumed to be, based on known routes and times. If the package actually is on the floor under some conveyor belt back at the origin, that is just too bad... the package is supposed to be at XXX city, so that is what is reported. It is not until it is noticed that it didn't get deliverd, that someone goes looking for it. When it is found, the original tracking LIE is deleted, and it starts all over again as a new shipment to be tracked.
I have also watched packages travel all over the U.S., from origin to several towns/burgs/wide-spots-in-the-road in random states (not even near a direct route between origin and the proper destination) where only the General Store/Gas Station/Cafe happens to also be the area's shipping company representitive. The clerk/mechanic/waitress there scans the package, discovers it was on the wrong truck, and ships it out on the next truck that happens to stop there, sending it to a major hub for re-sorting... one time I watched the tracking info bypass my city 3 times, bouncing between shipping hubs on both sides... not sure if it just didn't get off loaded at the local/LARGER hub here, only being found at the next one and sent back, but again left on the truck and so found at the hub on the other side of the route, or if those two hubs just didn't know there was a major one in the city where it should have been sent in the first place.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
USPS, perhaps purposely, says it only tracks packages by the last scanned location. To me that is far better than an 'estimated' location that may or may not be physically accurate. Sometimes that location can be a pretty ungodly whopper, however. I had a package that for weeks showed it had been delivered ... to a PO box in North Carolina. That is likely getting some tracking metadata confused. A couple of other packages went through a couple of known 'trouble spot' hubs and simply dropped off the radar for a few days; a couple of them were actually received and picked up before the 'next' tracking entry showed them as delivered. I don't attribute much of this to incompetence, just volume with a limited number of actual people in the facilities.
I recently found several parcels derelict in the back of a U-Haul rental truck parked at the back of the FedEx Ground employee parking facility. About the only explanation is that they rented the vehicle for 'Christmas rush' capacity, the driver ran out of time or hours, and just drove back and parked it with a couple of packages still lying there undelivered.
Makes it difficult to trust the information sometimes. At least it't not as bad as at Brown's Ferry ... at least, not yet!
That may be your experience. I've never encountered anything like that from various vendors using a UPS, FedEx, USPS. DLH etc.
Been told that UPS hired over 100k employees for the rush. Most recent deliveries have been in personal cars.
The USPS and UPS were running UHAUL Vans and Trucks as well.
A USPS person mentioned that they had not had a day off in weeks and they were 2 weeks behind.
I have had a similar positive experience as CharlieH.
Overmod I recently found several parcels derelict in the back of a U-Haul rental truck parked at the back of the FedEx Ground employee parking facility. About the only explanation is that they rented the vehicle for 'Christmas rush' capacity, the driver ran out of time or hours, and just drove back and parked it with a couple of packages still lying there undelivered.
BackshopWhat were you doing rummaging around in a trailer on Fedex property?
USPS got kneecapped in preperation for the Election with the loss of both manpower and machienry. There have been reports of truck drivers waiting hours and sometime days to deliver their trailers to the 'security' of a US Mail facility.
UPS, FedEx and DHL all got swampped with the online shopping binge for Christmas.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
What I find funny, and ironic, is all the people yelling to abolish the USPS "because UPS can do it better". If they only realized how much stuff is shipped long distance by UPS but the "final mile" delivery is via USPS.
Semper Vaporo When traveling by rail, the item is in a container and not out where the package label can be scanned to know where it is. They are not going to open the container every few cities just to scan all the packages to report the progress.
Seems like pretty simple logic to track the container and relate the package to the container location.
Maybe that is a service for higher rate packages.
rdamon Semper Vaporo When traveling by rail, the item is in a container and not out where the package label can be scanned to know where it is. They are not going to open the container every few cities just to scan all the packages to report the progress. Seems like pretty simple logic to track the container and relate the package to the container location. Maybe that is a service for higher rate packages.
From the UPS and/or FedEx viewpoint the contaier leaves their facility and goes to the railroad - the railroad transports it to its destination and then it is drayed to the UPS of FedEx facility and the entire contentes get checked into that facility and that check in is reported. It is handled at the facility and departed in some manner - the next stop on the overall route - the delivery truck to the consumer destination - those departures get reported. Deliver drive leaves it on your door step and that gets reported.
While UPS and FedEx track their containers while they are in the hands of other carriers - those handlings are not reported to their customers.
For whatever the reason, I seem to get FedEx deliveries from both Baltimore and Hagerstown - stuff from the South or NorthEast comes through Baltimore; stuff from the West comes through Hagerstown for final delivery.
Both UPS and FDX have huge facilities right outside of Toledo.
charlie hebdo I suppose it is an indication of how backward the rails remain, at least in this aspect of logistics, compared to other transportation modes.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
rdamon Been told that UPS hired over 100k employees for the rush. Most recent deliveries have been in personal cars. The USPS and UPS were running UHAUL Vans and Trucks as well. A USPS person mentioned that they had not had a day off in weeks and they were 2 weeks behind. I have had a similar positive experience as CharlieH.
I don't mind waiting. I remember the "good ole days" of getting a paper catalog in the mail, writing out the order on the order sheet, writing out a check, mailing it, and then waiting, and waiting and waiting. Then, after you'd forgotten all about it, it was delivered.
My son-in-law sells medical supplies to doctors offices and clinics - he says there have been some real concerns about getting stuff where it's supposed to be.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
rdamon Semper Vaporo When traveling by rail, the item is in a container and not out where the package label can be scanned to know where it is. They are not going to open the container every few cities just to scan all the packages to report the progress. Maybe that is a service for higher rate packages.
When a package is placed on a truck, they don't report on every city the truck passes through, only the ones where the truck is emptied and the package is physically handled to put on another truck to proceed further to its destination. Why should they report on where the container is when traveling on a train?
Why, because UPS does not update their tracking information? UPS knows exactly where their containers are that are traveling by train. If UPS decides not to put that information to its customers, how does that make rails "backward".
An "expensive model collector"
I have been a customer of Amazon since 2000. And L.L.Bean forever. Or so it seems. My grandfather opened an account with L.L. Bean in 1913, the year after they opened. We have been with them ever since.
When I place an order with Amazon or L.L.Bean, or any of the other online vendors that I use, they give me a date when my stuff will arrive. Amazon and L.L.Bean have never missed. And I place at least four to six orders a year with them.
What happens to the packages between the time they leave Amazon and L.L.Bean? I don't know. What is important is whether it hits the front porch when they say it will.
Do the three carriers know what packages are in each container ? I would suspect so so when a container or trailer is in an accident the shipper and receiver gets notification that delivery delayed. Would that be an indication when your package suddenly is noted as originating again ? Would suspect that a new tracking number would be sent to receiver ?
I know that one package I was expecting was in a truck roll-over and I got notice of the delay, a new shipment of the product and got it a week late. I assume the original product was destroyed or possibly sold by some salvage company.
But I have also had packages from Amazon get "lost" and was issued a refund.
I have had a package arrive a week late with no explanation of why, the tracking info just showed it at some intermediate city for a week, then it suddenly was leaving some other city 500 miles away.
Recently I ordered 4 cans of compressed air (similar to "Dust-Off") and got a bag of cement a week after the "Expected delivery date" (I had to e-mail to the vendor a photo of what I got. I received no explanation of the mix-up; they didn't want the bag of cement backm and would not send what I ordered, but did issue a refund to me.)
(The "bag of cement" was a "Childs Stepping Stone Kit" with a square plastic "form" to mix the cement with water, a "paint stirrer stick" to smooth the surface and some smooth glass chunks and pebbles to press into the surface, around the child's handprint. I don't think I will use the bag of cement to clean the dust off my keyboard or out of my DVD drive!)
blue streak 1Do the three carriers know what packages are in each container ?
I would suspect the loading point would know what they are loading out. Status updates usually include "departed wherever."
I doubt the intermediate carrier(s) (RR? Truck?) would know - they are simply dealing with one big package (container or trailer). The list of what is in a given trailer or container probably exists in a back office file. If something untoward happens to a given load, that's where your information will be found.
An intermediate receiving point/distribution center might have a list of what should be in a load, but I would sooner think that as packages are offloaded and scanned, that info will simply be compared to the back office file.
Slept in my own bed last night, so didn't stay at that hotel...
These days are unlike anything the package and USPS have ever seen. Pandemic has made work at home and shop at home the normal. Holiday season was yet another shift to more shop at home, the economic recovery is in process.
I also track inbound and some outbound shipments. Always been very interested in the flow of LTL and package deliveries. UPS and FedX interest me...I think Trains Magazine should devote a major article (perhaps an entire issue) on premium intermodal freight movements. I doubt if UPS would provide access but it would be an interesting article. There are very few books out on UPS, I have read a couple.
When UPS, FedX or Amazon make deliveries to our house I rush to the door and ask the driver "how many deliveries are you making today?" During December a typical day was 150 plus per driver, often over 200.
The massive crush of holiday and pandemic shipments has stretched UPS, Fedx, Amazon, and USPS to the edge...but for the most part, pretty good service. Personally, I still am expecting a book shipped in early December from Ontario...probably lost and UPS lost a work shipment of mine.
CSX and UPS are still running Q047 and Q48 the "Holiday Trains" nightly between Chicago and Columbus. These trains (formerly "Christmas Trains") were usually annulled after December 24th. This morning Q048 eastbound had 2 motors, 14 containers of which 11 were UPS branded. The morning Q047 had 2 x 18 with 8 UPS branded and 5 XPO containers.
I have never been able to find out too much about these two trains, but my guess is UPS pays big $$$ to run these trains. The fact that these trains are still running Jan 9th tells me UPS does not have line haul drivers to handle Chicago/Columbus pool.
Intermodal trains are running heavy. AAR weekly reports are showing big increases in intermodal YoY. Train counts were cut during COVID. It will be interesting to see when trains are rescheduled or whether the new frontier of railroading can handle these fewer, but larger land barges. The regular intermodal trains are HUGE - regularly 12000-15000 ft trains with 300 containers, not only the international container trains, but also the domestic "priority" trains. Not only are the intermodals big, so are the general freights...today's Q561 the daily Selkirk - Cincy trains is 202 cars.
Getting back to original post comment. My knowledge of UPS/FedX thru work is their tracking is based on "scans" at terminals or point of pickup/delivery. It would take an extremely sophisticated system to take real time rail information on a UPS container and transfer each package information to real time customer info. Plus, I doubt if the public requires it, other than us "tracking nerds."
Like it or not PSR is here.
edit - one more thing...final mile delivery was being made in Uhaul, Ryder, Penske, even personal vehicles simply to meet demand. We had a monthly medical delivery made this week by a personal vehicle (SUV) for FedX. Value is several thousands of $$$. They are all still trying to catch up.
Ed
The final mile in most FedEx deliveries is performed by a indpendent contractor for FedEx. Check the side of the delivery vehicle to get the name of the contractor. Yes, the vehicle is painted in FedEx colors, but the contractos identity is shown on the side of the vehicle.
UPS delivery is done by UPS employees in UPS vehicles.
BaltACD The final mile in most FedEx deliveries is performed by a indpendent contractor for FedEx. Check the side of the delivery vehicle to get the name of the contractor. Yes, the vehicle is painted in FedEx colors, but the contractos identity is shown on the side of the vehicle. UPS delivery is done by UPS employees in UPS vehicles.
Being a seasonal UPS employee myself.. We also use IC's or what we call Personal Vehicle Drivers (PVD).
Also rental vehicles are normal for peak season. Many of our METROS (Air Meets) were using rented Dodge Grand Caravan's this past season. All parcel providers use rentals during peak to handle demand..
To Backshop what you speak is called Surepost where UPS hands off lower volume parcels blocks and peak volume to USPS due to cost. It's cheaper to have USPS handle these parcels.
From a BNSF advertisement in der Spiegel:
"BNSF is innovating new ways to improve efficiency, safety and customer service with technologies like image analytics and machine learning to provide real-time visibility to thousands of containers."
Not sure what that means.
https://www.bnsf.com/ship-with-bnsf/intermodal/west-coast-advantage/BCO/
charlie hebdo"BNSF is innovating new ways to improve efficiency, safety and customer service with technologies like image analytics and machine learning to provide real-time visibility to thousands of containers." Not sure what that means.
Those methods won't work with containers or trailers. For those you might use a method that, let's say, takes HDR high-resolution pictures of containers as they are taken off a ship, or yarded. These can be processed by algorithms similar to those in flow cytometry or biometrics to extract a complex 'visual fingerprint' for each side of the container; you can then compare this using any photograph, sent via any sufficiently able network, using (say) the techniques for fingerprint ID on a phone where more primary data scanning might fail. As noted even if the container becomes 'tagged' or defaced the original pattern can usually be extracted or different types of scan fused and cross-referenced. This has the advantage, as in crossing management, that relatively cheap and very robust 'sensors' and transmitting architecture can be used in a great many places to back up in at least near-realtime where a container is, and secondarily how fast it is moving, what condition it is in, where in the current consist it is located, etc. It has the rather obvious disadvantage that competitors, would-be Conrail Boyz, and others can implement the same sorts of technology, perhaps on a smaller scale, and do their own tracking at locations and times they find suitable or expedient. You may remember instances where "private" car readers were found and identified, and private companies interested in car tracking and logistics engaged in their own location efforts -- and you may also remember that some efforts, like my own integration of train location and length with GPS nav to allow prediction of route guidance at crossings, foundered on railroad reluctance to having its trains and consists externally tracked in a way that revealed data the railroads or customers wanted kept proprietary.
The railroad car has it so it is a matter of linking the container to the car and then the railroad providing the progress of the container, by tracking progress of the railcar. Then the shipper would have to provide that information (if they want to)
Now tracking updates are by invidual scans of the package.
I would imagine UPS, FedEX or Amazon have or could install RFID on their trailers or containers and can track them closer than the info they provide to their customers.
rdamonI would imagine UPS, FedEX or Amazon have or could install RFID on their trailers or containers and can track them closer than the info they provide to their customers.
First cost, maintenance, and tampering/theft of devices can be significant. These costs of doing business can be materially reduced with an external system that 'works for all' almost entirely with passive scanning -- hence the development efforts.
It is comparatively very simple to include the tracking data for individual packages in the metadata as a load is being palletized. Likewise the data for pallets loaded into containers can be Drilled down' through to reveal the specifics -- in a way that does not expose them to data breach if someone merely hacks access to the 'pallet-tracking' database. I need not mention how this applies to containers cross-ID'd visually.
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