I just got home from a trip to my grandparents. We did some railfanning both ways, between Schenectady and Catskill (on the CSX). I caught four trains, and missed (didn't see engines/pulled off the road when I saw them, etc) 6 trains. Well, ok, one of those trains I missed because there was roadwork and we had to detour, but I am seriously depressed. What am I doing wrong? I have a scanner and I am listening for Defect Detectors/crews calling signals, but my handheld can only pick up stuff a couple miles away, and by the time I figure out where it is it's already passed. The other problem is I can't drive, so my time is dictated by the drivers/complaining little brother. If I was driving myself I would just sit back, relax, and wait for them, but I can't do that. What can I do to not miss so many trains?
Harrison
Homeschooler living In upstate NY a.k.a Northern NY.
Modeling the D&H in 1978.
Route of the famous "Montreal Limited"
My YouTube
For the scanner, invest in a good mag mount antenna, assuming your parents will allow you to place it on the family ride. You won't believe the difference.
If you're within radio range at home, get yourself an outdoor antenna. You can still hook up your pocket scanner to it, and you'll hear a lot more than with the rubber duck. If you can't afford a commercial outdoor antenna, look up "J-Pole" and find someone with plumbing skills to help you to assemble it. The pipe and fittings might cost you $10-15 - the coax and adapter for your radio will likely be the expensive part.
Check on rail cams in the areas you haunt. Most Virtual Railfan sites have a chat, and some fans are now keeping a log of trains that pass.
What's important about that log is that you can develop a sense of when trains consistently pass that cam. While the railroads don't run on a schedule (other than Amtrak), they are often quite regular, which might help allow you to plan your outings.
Another thing you can draw from the rail cams is symbols and consists.
Keep a log of your own.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
To me this is the best antenna. Been using this brand for 15 years.
https://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/scanants/2368.html
Some good advice from tree68 and SD60 Harrison, but I'd advise you of one more thing.
Relax. Railfanning's a bit like hunting, some days you get the eight-point buck, some days you get skunked, that's just the way it is. It's not the end of the world, not by a long shot.
You're a young man, and statistics being what they are you've got at least another 60 or 70 years of railfanning ahead of you, as hard as that is to fathom. You'll see things we never will and possibly can't imagine. Your adventure's just beginning, so hang in there! You've got plenty of time.
Harrison, I've gone train hunting all day and never saw a single one. It sounds like you did okay to me.
When you get out to the hole before sun-up, and throw in a line and retrieve the bait about 400 times, catch nothing, and then trudge back home near noon to do other things, have you been fishing or washing the deck?
Tree68, Larry, you are amazing at giving good advice. A real friend.
Lithonia Operator Harrison, I've gone train hunting all day and never saw a single one. It sounds like you did okay to me.
Even on a busy mainline, there will be lulls. I've seen that happen at Utica - sit in the overhead walkway for an hour or more and nothing comes through.
Even my favorite, Deshler, with up to 60 trains per day, experiences this. An hour or two with nothing, then a traffic jam, sometimes three trains at once with another in siding and more in line behind them.
Thanks for the help and encouragment everyone. I'm still pretty down on myself but it sounds like it happens to everyone.
Harrison Thanks for the help and encouragment everyone. I'm still pretty down on myself but it sounds like it happens to everyone.
It does! You're not the first and you won't be the last!
HarrisonThanks for the help and encouragment everyone. I'm still pretty down on myself but it sounds like it happens to everyone.
Missing an unscheduled train is nothing to be down about. You never know - the train you were expecting might have been anulled today. Or any of a large number of other reasons.
Work your way into better being able to find trains. That takes time and experience.
Remember this.. There's always a better train in the future. Another highball eventually shows up
I usually get to see the crossing lights go on in my rear view mirror as I have pulled away after spending 45 mins inspecting ballast.
It's the nature of the beast. Unless you're watching light rail or rapid transit, you're bound to get some dead time, occasionally a LOT of dead time. Even on a slow day, it's still fun to get out.
Check out this spreadsheet from December 28 at Deshler. They saw a total of 56 trains for the 24 hours. As you glance down the list, note that there were several spans of an hour or more with no trains. Between 1248 and 1421 - going on two hours - nothing. Yet there were several spans of just a half hour with four trains passing through.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BOhdvzfCAbneAMC_gvqrAxzC4FaqFZtmypHS68Ix1XU/edit#gid=347345324
As CSSHEGEWISCH points out - it's the nature of the beast...
I'd like to have a quarter for every time this has happened to me.
Curt
rdamon I usually get to see the crossing lights go on in my rear view mirror as I have pulled away after spending 45 mins inspecting ballast.
Another tip is to learn to read the lights of the lines you're watching. Keep in mind that not all are the same. In my area, the green lights on UP used to be meaningless because all they indicated was that the track was clear. Now that they are 'approach lit', when I see green it almost certainly means that something is coming.
On the other hand, CN empty tracks show red around here...anything other than that typically means a train has authority to pass. It's especially helpful if you can see signals in both directions.
There's a Trains article that I've seen printed a couple of times that shows the various signal aspects. Learn which ones apply in your area and use them to your advantage. Unfortunately I don't have my library at my fingertips to point you to them, but I'm guessing someone else on here we'll know which issues they're in.
Good luck!
AjsikAnother tip is to learn to read the lights of the lines you're watching. Keep in mind that not all are the same. In my area, the green lights on UP used to be meaningless because all they indicated was that the track was clear. Now that they are 'approach lit', when I see green it almost certainly means that something is coming. On the other hand, CN empty tracks show red around here...anything other than that typically means a train has authority to pass. It's especially helpful if you can see signals in both directions. There's a Trains article that I've seen printed a couple of times that shows the various signal aspects. Learn which ones apply in your area and use them to your advantage. Unfortunately I don't have my library at my fingertips to point you to them, but I'm guessing someone else on here we'll know which issues they're in. Good luck!
There are two different means that railroad use when lighting signals. Constant lit or Approach lit.
Constant lit signals always display 'some' indication, that depending upon the specifics of the signal's specific purpose in the signal system may or may not convey any valid 'warning' of impending actions to a railfan.
Approach lit signals will only light up when the track circuit 'approaching' the signal is occupied by something, normally a train, that 'shunts' the track occupancy detector by creating a completed electrical connection between the rails - each rail carries a low level electrical current that gets completed by the steel wheel & axle combiniation of railroad equipment. The Approach Lit signal is displaying a indication of the condition of the track segment beyond the signal.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD Ajsik Another tip is to learn to read the lights of the lines you're watching. Keep in mind that not all are the same. In my area, the green lights on UP used to be meaningless because all they indicated was that the track was clear. Now that they are 'approach lit', when I see green it almost certainly means that something is coming. On the other hand, CN empty tracks show red around here...anything other than that typically means a train has authority to pass. It's especially helpful if you can see signals in both directions. There's a Trains article that I've seen printed a couple of times that shows the various signal aspects. Learn which ones apply in your area and use them to your advantage. Unfortunately I don't have my library at my fingertips to point you to them, but I'm guessing someone else on here we'll know which issues they're in. Good luck! There are two different means that railroad use when lighting signals. Constant lit or Approach lit. Constant lit signals always display 'some' indication, that depending upon the specifics of the signal's specific purpose in the signal system may or may not convey any valid 'warning' of impending actions to a railfan. Approach lit signals will only light up when the track circuit 'approaching' the signal is occupied by something, normally a train, that 'shunts' the track occupancy detector by creating a completed electrical connection between the rails - each rail carries a low level electrical current that gets completed by the steel wheel & axle combiniation of railroad equipment. The Approach Lit signal is displaying a indication of the condition of the track segment beyond the signal.
Ajsik Another tip is to learn to read the lights of the lines you're watching. Keep in mind that not all are the same. In my area, the green lights on UP used to be meaningless because all they indicated was that the track was clear. Now that they are 'approach lit', when I see green it almost certainly means that something is coming. On the other hand, CN empty tracks show red around here...anything other than that typically means a train has authority to pass. It's especially helpful if you can see signals in both directions. There's a Trains article that I've seen printed a couple of times that shows the various signal aspects. Learn which ones apply in your area and use them to your advantage. Unfortunately I don't have my library at my fingertips to point you to them, but I'm guessing someone else on here we'll know which issues they're in. Good luck!
Thanks for all the help everyone. I think I understand the signals pretty well, the CSX signals remain on at all times at Control Points (junctions, crossovers, etc), and are red at default. They are green or yellow when a train is "lined". The only problem is, when a train is lined it could be over an hour before it actually comes. That wouldn't be problem except the family doesn't like to wait that long, and we're almost always trying to get somewhere ASAP. Where I live (on the CP) the signals remain on at CPs and junctions, but there aren't many of those. The regular block signals come on about 2 minutes before the train, so not all that helpful.
tree
That is quite an impressive spreadsheet. I assume you are monitoring Deshler by a web cam and on line scanner....correct?
I am doing the same with Berea, Oh at this time. Have done the same with Chesterton, In (10 miles from home) and Fostoria. At my station in life (working at home and in mid 60s) I find this virtual railfanning is ideal. My "spreadsheet" is not nearly as detailed...it is a notebook with train movements for the time I watch. Berea web cam gives me the CSX mainline and the NS mainline...lots of activity.
Are you finding the trains run on pretty regular schedule? I am impressed with both CSX and NS abilities to run trains on very regular time slots. Not only the hot priority intermodals (UPS trains) but also the general freights are very regularly ran.
An interesting pair on the CSX are Q168/169. I do not understand these two trains...but run with very small intermodal loads, often 30 - 100 international containers. These two trains fly against the grain of PSR. Seems like these two could be combined with other intermodals.
I am not going to make any friends here, but the PSR seems to have certain benefits. These trains are running "on time". I am not making an overall endorsement of PSR, but while the train counts are down compared to years ago, that seems to have given more capacity to the lines. Yes, the trains are huge - Q364 just rolled thru Berea with 764 axles - about 187 cars, but once these trains are rolling out of the terminals they seem to move well.
So, to the original poster, perhaps you fill in your time with watching a webcam and listening to the scanner activity to gain an idea of operations in your area.
Also...a better antenna helps also.
Good luck...and tree - I am impressed!
ed
When John Snow held the reins of CSX there was no effort to run the scheduled freight network on time. Once he departed to become Treasury Secretary for the Bush administration and extracted his $69M Golden Parachute from CSX and was replaced by Michael Ward CSX began to emphasize operating the scheduled network On Time.
At the time of my retirement the CSX scheduled network was operating at about 90% on time originations and about 75% on time arrival at destination (all calculated on +/- 2 hours on the scheduled time.) PSR has decreased the number of trains operated and increased the size of the trains that are operated. PSR has increased the number of trains operating with DPU - a move that was having the necessary radio repeaters and other things necessary to permit them to operate safely in CSX territory which has many areas where line of sight radio cannot opeate.
MP173tree That is quite an impressive spreadsheet. I assume you are monitoring Deshler by a web cam and on line scanner....correct?
I take zero credit for the spreadsheet - I don't even have edit permissions.
The folks that do keep it up use the cams, scanner feed (available on-line), other on-line resources, and experience, plus some occasional inside knowledge, to keep it up.
An actual visit to Crossroads Park will usually include several regulars who know the traffic quite well.
Pay a visit to the Deshler cam on YouTube - you'll see a lot of cooperation going on with regard to maintaining the spreadsheet.
I don't know that "on-time" fits the trains seen through Deshler. "Consistent times" might be more appropriate - you'll usually see certain trains around the same time each day, but don't set your watch by them. The only thing you can set your watch to at Deshler is the noon siren...
I put together my own spreadsheet of trains I've seen at Deshler. It resembles the spreadsheet in question, but is a reference, not a log. There are well over 100 entries representing trains that could be seen on the cams. Deshler usually logs 50-60 trains a day.
So I was listening to my scanner today, and I heard "West Chazy Dispatch" tell D11 (the Plattsburgh local) that 931 (NS run through trains) would be coming north and that they were in Rockland (about a half hour south of Plattsburgh). So my mom takes me out and we catch the train, and then we chase the local around. Thanks for everyone's help, or I might not have caught what I did today.
Harrison:
I just watched your YouTube video and I think that you actually had a pretty good day. I do have one railfan tip for you - try to better plan the driving portions of your trips. Plan out a number of good photo spots along your route of travel and try to maximize the amount of time spent at each location and minimize the amount of time driving around. If you are trying to railfan while making a long journey to a relative‘s house, sometimes it’s is best to focus on the best spots with the best light, then make time getting down the road towards your final destination when and where the light and locations aren’t so great.
Once the train traffic lets up at one location carefully move on to the next spot, preferably using the trains that have just passed or MOW forces getting track time to run ”interference“ for you to get safely to the next photo spot. This is is harder to do on a double track line, but it can be done if you are paying close attention to radio traffic on the the scanner. Picking spots near CTC control point signals can also help with this.
The worst days that I have ever had railfanning have been the ones when I got antsy and gave in to the temptation to just drive around to find something. It is so easy to get yourself out of position when you are wandering around. That’s what happened to you with your 6 “missed” trains. I know it can get very boring just sitting around at one spot, but you never have to scramble to get back to the tracks when a train does show up.
Last of all, remember that the worst day trackside is better than the best day at school or work!
ns145 Harrison: I just watched your YouTube video and I think that you actually had a pretty good day. I do have one railfan tip for you - try to better plan the driving portions of your trips. Plan out a number of good photo spots along your route of travel and try to maximize the amount of time spent at each location and minimize the amount of time driving around. If you are trying to railfan while making a long journey to a relative‘s house, sometimes it’s is best to focus on the best spots with the best light, then make time getting down the road towards your final destination when and where the light and locations aren’t so great. Once the train traffic lets up at one location carefully move on to the next spot, preferably using the trains that have just passed or MOW forces getting track time to run ”interference“ for you to get safely to the next photo spot. This is is harder to do on a double track line, but it can be done if you are paying close attention to radio traffic on the the scanner. Picking spots near CTC control point signals can also help with this. The worst days that I have ever had railfanning have been the ones when I got antsy and gave in to the temptation to just drive around to find something. It is so easy to get yourself out of position when you are wandering around. That’s what happened to you with your 6 “missed” trains. I know it can get very boring just sitting around at one spot, but you never have to scramble to get back to the tracks when a train does show up. Last of all, remember that the worst day trackside is better than the best day at school or work!
Thanks, some words of wisdom here, I must admit that yes, a couple of the trains were because I was getting antsy (Q003 and Q627 mainly). It's tricky because my family likes to keep moving towards our destination, so if I'm not positive something's coming I usually have to go along with them. That was the case with the rest of the missed trains, with the exception of Q567, I missed that because of roadwork.
HarrisonThanks, some words of wisdom here, I must admit that yes, a couple of the trains were because I was getting antsy (Q003 and Q627 mainly). It's tricky because my family likes to keep moving towards our destination, so if I'm not positive something's coming I usually have to go along with them. That was the case with the rest of the missed trains, with the exception of Q567, I missed that because of roadwork.
Another reason for an external antenna, and perhaps a set of headphones (or at least an earpiece, so the rest of the car doesn't have to listen to the chatter).
I don't know about CP, but CSX tends to call signals. That and there's always defect detectors. If you're used to the railroad geography in your primary watching areas, you're half way there, as they say.
I can hear CSX call signals, but only when I'm less then about three miles can I actually understand what they're saying, which is useless if I'm not sitting at a crossing. CP I believe calls signals, I heard them call a signal today, but it may have just been because they were passing a Control Point. Defect detectors are my main tool, that and listening to the D&H dispatcher (yes, they still call it D&H).
Not sure if any of the feeds here are in your area:
https://www.broadcastify.com/listen/stid/36
Harrison Thanks, some words of wisdom here, I must admit that yes, a couple of the trains were because I was getting antsy (Q003 and Q627 mainly). It's tricky because my family likes to keep moving towards our destination, so if I'm not positive something's coming I usually have to go along with them. That was the case with the rest of the missed trains, with the exception of Q567, I missed that because of roadwork.
It's tricky enough when you are driving by yourself! At least your family is willing to give you a shot at catching these trains while they are driving along. My dad wouldn't have stopped the car for anything on a long trip (and I knew better than to ask).
Keep us posted on your progress!
Harrison, I don't know how close you live to the tracks, but in warmer weather is bicycle railfanning an option? I lived about 3 miles from the Water Level Route in Rome growing up, and spent a lot of time riding my bike downtown to watch trains. I also had my parents drop my bike and me off about 15 miles from home a couple times so I could see trains while riding home.
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