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East Terminal Railway YouTube channel ("We brought an abandoned railroad")

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, February 25, 2021 11:17 AM

CMStPnP
I don't know what they charge a month for car storage...

In the past I've heard of a dollar a day per car and two dollars a day per car.  I'm sure there are variations.

I know of operations nearby that have had 700 cars stored, and 1,300 cars stored.

At a buck a day per car, that covers a lot of the payroll...

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Posted by CMStPnP on Thursday, February 25, 2021 5:07 AM

I don't know what they charge a month for car storage but for every $1 he invests in the physical plant increases the property tax on the physical plant.    It seems to me that he doesn't have enough track to cover all the costs but  I guess time will tell and it will depend on how much business he generates.   

Generating business is not easy and overestimating how much new business you can generate over a period of time is one of the methods which new businesses fail.

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Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, February 25, 2021 1:01 AM

CMStPnP

 

 
Lithonia Operator
I have no idea if this man knows what he's doing. You would think he'd have done the due diligence before buying that line. I'd love to know what he paid for it. To say it was overgrown is a giant understatement! I hope he does know what he's facing, and I wish him well.

 

Also, nobody has asked how you go about buying an "abandoned" rail line.   Legally, I would think that is impossible as real estate law in most cases states once the line is abandoned it reverts to the original property owner from whom the easement was obtained.     Unless the line was purchased by the state and held in a rail bank.......in which case it was not really abandoned.

 

 

...Only if the original color of title has a reversionary clause in it, is grant/charter R/W or is a R/W deed. Blanket statements like the above in red are an accident looking for a place to happen. (just like the assertion that all railroad corridors are easements - not true either and predominately wrong.) Color of title of the vesting deeds that created the rail corridor are ignored by many - a fatal flaw in many an argument.

What's in play here is a lot (Lot 5 - McCormick Blvd Columbus Industrial Park)in an industrial park (originally intended to be a shopping center)that just happens to have track on it bought with a Quit Claim deed. This could get murky & smelly really quick. What reception # 00025321 of 12/8/2020 says would be interesting to see. (Might be abandoned land and not an abandoned rail line)...All of this happened originally circa 1975 and the original railroad involved was Chessie System (and B&O two years before that... see B&0 valuation section 128 & PRR valuation section PCC&StL VS-2). Safe bet would be that neither the G&W or the wanna-be shortline has the ICC val maps in their possession on what started here before the advent of the shortline in 1992.

   
Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, February 25, 2021 12:50 AM

...probably each side of the centerline of the track. 100 ft R/W (50+50) is common for a main track R/W, not an industrial lead or backtrack.

L.O.: Local GIS* and Assessor/Auditor data is frequently wrong regarding railroad property and rights of way, don't hang your hat just on what some less than qualified button-pusher has guessed at. (The locals don't collect taxes from the railroads, the feds do.... for that reason alone, county mappers do some strange things.) Because he really isn't a railroad, but more of a sidetrack corridor land owner, suspect he will see a tax bill. (and absolutely has no idea what 49CFR1201 is)

 

* The GIS in Franklin County is controlled by the county auditor with the county engineer/surveyor having no oversight of what is being done. (serious credibility issue)

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by Lithonia Operator on Wednesday, February 24, 2021 1:13 PM

scale

I'm pretty sure he said in one of the videos his ROW was 100' wide.  If my railroad history is correct that's pretty standard for a lot of railroads when they built lines.  One "chain" was easy to measure, and it was plenty wide.  If so, he owns 50' on each side of the tracks.

 

It would be a bit strange, but I wonder if he's leasing the track over by the buildings from the same people he bought the parcel from.  They may not want to sell it, least someone want to come in and redevelop the whole property tearing out the siding and building and making something new.  But they may be more than happy to make some $$$ off him until that day comes.  The thin narrow parcel he bought does not have the same opportunity, and "owning" it may have been necessary for him to become a "real railroad" for some regulatory purposes.  It may also be he has an option to purchase it later he hasn't exercised yet, waiting for some revenue to come in.

 

I made a map based on the info we have so far, let me see if folks think this is right.

Red box - parcel from the tax records.
Cyan - ETRR "main line"
Purple - The "700" track.
Orange - "The J Lead", believe to be removed.
Green Oval - The brush pile.
Blue - The culvert
Yellow - The "panama canal".

Based on measuring on google maps, the cyan line is about 1,200 feet long. The "700" track is a bit over 1500 feet long in total.  

 

Google Maps Annotated

 

If the ROW is 100 ft. wide, he does not own 50 ft. on each side of the track. You have to account for the width of the track. The ties are 8.5' long, hence the track is 8.5 ft. wide; that leaves 91.5 feet. Half of that is 45.75 ft.

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Posted by mudchicken on Wednesday, February 24, 2021 12:46 PM

Neophyte - NOT a common carrier railroad, can't interchange with other railroads. At best a contract switching operation or an industrial customer. AAR,FRA and STB have nothing on him. (ETRX? ... ETR= Essex Terminal Railway (Windsor-Detroit area)) .... Needs to get busy starting at STB, then AAR, then FRA, then ASLRRA.... Starting to dig themselves a very expen$ive hole they may never get out of at $10K per federal Code 1 violation.

*pay serious heed to the Allied Dismantling(Mahoning County OH) and Cattaraugus cases at STB.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by East Terminal Railway on Friday, February 19, 2021 9:45 PM
You have all put a lot of good info in here, even some that I did not know. but we do ask that you keep our location information private. other then on here, where I believe y'all are just trying to understand more about our rail. we want to maintain our privacy as best we can to keep un-welcome guests form visiting E.T.R.
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Posted by scale on Wednesday, January 20, 2021 1:23 PM

There's a bit of a po-tah-to po-tat-to going on with the railroad name.

There's the name of the incorporated entity that owns the tracks.  This is often a jumble of corporate names from various mergers.  Genesee and Wyoming is the parent company, and they bought up a bunch of smaller railroads they operate as a system.  When viewed from this angle, the railroad that serves his siding is the "Columbus & Ohio River Rail Road" reporting marks CUOH.

Then there's the name you see on the rolling stock, locomotives, hi-rails, etc.  This is typically yet another incorporated entity, perhaps "D.B.A." (doing business as) the main name.  A class one may have an operating entity in each state for example, but DBA the name of the class one.  When viewed from this angle, I do expect the locmotives and such that show up on his property, if we ever see that, will say Ohio Central.

Note that while Genesee and Wyoming calls this the CUOH and states it interchanges with Ohio Central (https://www.gwrr.com/railroads/north_america/columbus__ohio_river_railroad#m_tab-one-panel) if you click on "Contacts" the General Manager is listed as "Timothy Slusser Ohio Central Railroad, Inc." while all other positions roll up to "Genesee & Wyoming Railroad Services, Inc.".

Which is a long winded way of saying we're both right.  Genesee and Wyoming owns the whole kaboodle, track, maintenance and locomotives.  The track and land through a subsidiary called "Columbus & Ohio River Rail Road", the locomotives through one called "Ohio Central", and the mainteance through "Genesee & Wyoming Railroad Services, Inc.".

I think. Big Smile

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Posted by chutton01 on Wednesday, January 20, 2021 12:27 PM

Hey Scale, the reason I keep saying 'Ohio Central' is the connecting road is because if you position Google Street on Walnut St. where the line runs past a Cemex unloding silo before branching off, there is a Ohio Central locomotive. (sort of looks like a GE B '-7' unit, at least the radiator does). That image is given as 2015, so things can change.
Today's video popped up during lunch, so to summarize
1) Brian gives us a little update while sitting by one of those new-fangled smokeless pot-bellied stoves, talks about how he gets some decent info from the comments section (not always a given from YouTube comments).  Lots of talk about tippers and dump-beds.
2) Heads to the storage shed where the Trackmobile (5 TM model) is stored, details its capabilities, operations, and specs in the now-usual Brian 'excruciating' detail. Graham starts up the trackmobile and raises and lowers the road wheels.  Actually...this was kind of interesting.
3) Back to the Columbus corporate park trackage for the wrap up. More or less a quick tour of the trackage, including the 'J' lead switch (why are they leaving it in when the rest of the siding was removed? Because they are considering laying a new storage track parallel to the current segment connected to that switch), the gauge bars (which are working), and sort of trails off as they walk down the tracks (as the camera stays in place on its tripod) discussing future plans (we also learn the connection RR did not like some stumps near the ROW). Bit scripted, but OK.
I did see the blue plastic pipe they installed under the tracks in earlier episode is just south of the J lead switch - which way are they draining the water again?

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Posted by deeplist on Wednesday, January 20, 2021 10:42 AM
The "700 Track" branches off from him and then curves towards the west. It appears to split once more and have a spur going to the South-East corner of the Ferguson Plumbing Supply building, and then continue on along the south side of Ferguson and along the south side of the D+S Distribution building. What he's calling the "J Lead" doesn't go to anything. It looks like at one point it went to what is "Jacobi Carbons" on google maps, but not anymore. It appears the ballast and ties are still in place, but in his last video, you can see where the rails are cut at his switch, and it goes nowhere. This is where he said the ties are bad and failed inspection. The "other switches" that he was talking about that were supposedly inspected that he "didn't care about" I'm assuming are the ones to the south of his parcel that aren't on his property.
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Posted by scale on Tuesday, January 19, 2021 6:12 PM

Ohio provides a nice rail map: https://rail.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/ordc/rail-in-ohio/resources/01-printed-rail-map-request

If I'm reading it right, the main line just north of him is the Columbus & Ohio River Rail Road: https://www.gwrr.com/railroads/north_america/columbus__ohio_river_railroad#m_tab-one-panel

GWRR does also run the Ohio Central.  I suspect GWRR would also be much easier to deal with than CSX, NS, BNSF, CN, etc.

 

I just noticed.  The "J Lead" goes to a building labeled "Jacobi Carbons, Inc." at 432 McCormick Blvd.  Can't make sense of the "700 Lead" though.

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Posted by chutton01 on Tuesday, January 19, 2021 11:13 AM

They issued a new video on the 17th. Basically Brian starts on the line discussing an inspection of the property done by the connecting railroad (which I still maintain is the Ohio Central, but I am willing to be corrected). Walking south he states the railroad is OK with the switch to the 700 lead, but not with the next switch south (which leads nowhere as the diverging routes rails were missing - so that does match nicely with the J lead missing trackage as mentioned above.
The rest of the video covers them backfilling the temporary drainage channel, and getting rocks to use as rip-rap for the new channel they dug in the previous video (hand carrying them 1 or two a time to the little railcart they have - someone in the YouTube comments said they should have used a Georgia Buggy - looking it up I learned that what was those funky looking 'wheelbarrows' were called).
Finally we got a look at a railcar mover which they may (or may not) use on the line - one of the older style where the railwheels are perpendicular to the road wheels.

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Posted by deeplist on Tuesday, January 19, 2021 10:20 AM

According to the auditor, his parcel is 106.62 feet wide, so the 100 ft theory seems right, BUT when you look on the auditor map, the track is not centered. His parcel looks like it's about 75% to the left (west) of the track and 25% to the right (east) of the track.

Then the parcel adjacent to the south of his looks to be about half the width of his (probably around 50 ft +/-) and the track continues on into it dead centered within it's boundaries. (It's very long and narrow towards the top, and then becomes very wide just beyond TNT equipment and contains a large piece of woods just to the north of Brice Road.)

Which, even if he was to purchase the parcel to the south of his from the Columbus Corporate Center, the four sidings that branch off just below where he's at now would still be on the scare factory's property.

On a side note: Brian's parcel is 1269.92 ft long, which equates to 0.24 miles... so just shy of a quarter mile. So his statement of it being "about a mile" was pretty eggagerated.

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Posted by scale on Tuesday, January 19, 2021 7:25 AM

I'm pretty sure he said in one of the videos his ROW was 100' wide.  If my railroad history is correct that's pretty standard for a lot of railroads when they built lines.  One "chain" was easy to measure, and it was plenty wide.  If so, he owns 50' on each side of the tracks.

 

It would be a bit strange, but I wonder if he's leasing the track over by the buildings from the same people he bought the parcel from.  They may not want to sell it, least someone want to come in and redevelop the whole property tearing out the siding and building and making something new.  But they may be more than happy to make some $$$ off him until that day comes.  The thin narrow parcel he bought does not have the same opportunity, and "owning" it may have been necessary for him to become a "real railroad" for some regulatory purposes.  It may also be he has an option to purchase it later he hasn't exercised yet, waiting for some revenue to come in.

 

I made a map based on the info we have so far, let me see if folks think this is right.

Red box - parcel from the tax records.
Cyan - ETRR "main line"
Purple - The "700" track.
Orange - "The J Lead", believe to be removed.
Green Oval - The brush pile.
Blue - The culvert
Yellow - The "panama canal".

Based on measuring on google maps, the cyan line is about 1,200 feet long. The "700" track is a bit over 1500 feet long in total.  

 

Google Maps Annotated

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Posted by deeplist on Friday, January 15, 2021 9:05 AM
The google maps aerial view shows a few cars sitting by Amcor, but I'm not sure how outdated the imagery is. They may or may not still be using their split. The "yard" just to the east of the Scare Factory is NOT his... at least not yet, or according to the tax records. It's currently owned by the same entity that he bought the first parcel from. I would assume that he'd at least try and acquire it as well, as that's the likely point that he would do all of his car repairs, pole unloading, etc. I'm not sure why he would not have just purchased both parcels together unless the current owner didn't want to let the parcel to the south go for one reason or another. They probably assumed that selling that single narrow parcel was a safe bet because he would be landlocked in and couldn't do anything with it? I would assume that area to the east of the scare factory is where Brian is putting his equipment on and off the tracks, despite not technically owning that property. On a side note: from the looks of the parcel that he DOES own, I'm not sure about the legality of all the digging he's doing with the drainage project. It doesn't look like he really owns that much land to the east of his tracks... 10 foot maybe??
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Posted by chutton01 on Friday, January 15, 2021 8:05 AM

So it seems Brian doesn't even own the line from the former can factory (on google, marked Scare Factory, guess its either one of those seasonal party outlets, or a 'haunted' house sort of deal). I figured those three sidings that lead to that former plant were where they were planning to unload telephone poles that he talked about in early episodes, as well set up their repair facility that he also talked about (seems like a good location) - but you're saying no, he doesn't even reach that.  And does Amcor still get service - if so, he must only own south of that switch.
Doesn't look lilke all that much room for a thriving car storage business, but at least the videoes are somewhat entertaining...

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Posted by deeplist on Thursday, January 14, 2021 9:31 AM

What he's calling the 700 Track goes to Ferguson Plumbing Supply (438 McCormick Blvd) and what he's calling the "J Lead" goes to Jacobi Carbons (432 McCormick Blvd) or at least it did... google maps looks like it's been pulled up.

 

I don't even think he owns half a mile total. It's more like a quarter. Brian's parcel is 010-165726-00. The parcel to the south of his (010-165727-00) is still owned by Columbus Corporate Center, which is the entity that he bought his section from back in December.

Here's an image where I outlined in red what Brian owns.

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Posted by chutton01 on Thursday, January 14, 2021 9:02 AM

deeplist
If you check the tax records for Franklin County (Columbus Ohio) for "East Columbus Terminal Railroad" you'll find a parcel of land just east of the Amcor Rigid Plastics building. (444 McCormick Blvd, Columbus, OH 43213) That's where he's at. They paid $8000 for it, and it's about a quarter of a mile long, maybe half a mile tops. And there's a retention pond to the east of his parcel where the overflow water is coming from.


Good idea to check tax records for confirmation.
Anyway that N/S segment of line is the one identified way back in the first video's YouTube comments, and I linked to the Google Map view in my OP to this thread (Google Map view link again). There was even a can manufacturing facility that closed on the line (the company consolidated to a plant on the West Side of Columbus), which might be Brian's '700' Siding. If you measure from the south end of the line by the Equipment dealer on Google Maps, to the switch with the AMCOR Rigid lead, length is around half a mile. Don't know if they brought more than that, maybe AMCOR and Cemex closed down since the 2015 views.
Anyway this seems to be the obvious segment till Brian's little description in the last episode, which didn't quite match up to reality, but maybe he was just "stretching the truth" a bit.

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Posted by deeplist on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 3:12 PM
If you check the tax records for Franklin County (Columbus Ohio) for "East Columbus Terminal Railroad" you'll find a parcel of land just east of the Amcor Rigid Plastics building. (444 McCormick Blvd, Columbus, OH 43213) That's where he's at. They paid $8000 for it, and it's about a quarter of a mile long, maybe half a mile tops. And there's a retention pond to the east of his parcel where the overflow water is coming from.
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Posted by chutton01 on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 1:41 PM

scale
Another bump, new episode out where they dig a ditch -- and it makes me think we're in the wrong spot on the map.


I saw that episode last night as well, and I got the same impression that its not where I and others thought it was.
At first glance, when Brian does his initial 'safety briefing' skit and shows his map on the easel, the layout very roughly matches up to the East Columbus Ohio location: North/South trackage which then curves East in the north; at least one siding (700) curving SW; ditch to the East. But other parts don't line up (there are 6-7 sidings off the lline curving SW, no culvert to the west as you stated, and the tree line is far less wide than what they were working in when they created the new ditch.  Also, that line off McCormick Blvd is/would be served by a shortline (Ohio Central, or at least that was the operator according to 2015 Google Streets), not C-No Service For You-X.
Maybe we'll find out for sure when "one lucky subscriber" get a tour of the place (or did he mean the rail repair facility they run, not sure).

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Posted by rdamon on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 9:53 AM
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Posted by scale on Wednesday, January 13, 2021 7:58 AM

Another bump, new episode out where they dig a ditch -- and it makes me think we're in the wrong spot on the map.

He draws a diagram of how the water flows around the site, and they did a short ditch to redirect part of it to improve drainage.  Looking at the satellite view of where we thought this was located, I can't line up his drawing at all.  I feel like we should be able to see the water source to the east, likely identify where the culvert is located, and see the water to the north west.  Also, it's clear when they are digging well off the right of way that there's not much futher on -- the location on the map has houses to the east.

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Posted by chutton01 on Monday, January 4, 2021 6:32 PM

Time for a bump, as our buddies at East Terminal took another field trip to get the truck they purchased at auction earlier.  This leads to a 3 part video series wherein the rail-derailment recovery business background of Brian fully comes out. I am posting a link to Video 2 here, which starts as more or less a high level discussion of rail derailment/recovery methods over the years, and ends with a discussion of various rail recovery services east of the Mississippi.  Its actually rather interesting. Video 3 is also somewhat interesting, as Brian visits the garage of a rail recovery truck service and shows some pretty interesting equipment which would make the 1/87 Vehicle guys take notice. He talk a bit about another recovery job his company did (new poster 'scale' already mentioned his story of how they set the scrap paper loaded in a box car on fire when they tried to torch a door free, and ended up flooding the boxcar and load with water) - this time he explained how his company specializes in smaller in-plant jobs, exhibited by how they rerailed a derailed car in a building, over an unloading grate.

No real update on the Terminal RR itself, but likely if they get a repair job or build that 'access' road or unload poles, they'll post a video.

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Posted by scale on Monday, December 28, 2020 1:58 PM

Episode 11 is out today.

Brian is wearing an "Air Net" pull over.  Air Net is a cargo airline out of Columbus Ohio (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirNet_Express).  He also talked more about their rail car repair business, specifically repairing a door on a box car at some sort of paper plant.  Columbus Airport is very close to the location you linked.  Seems like Columbus is 100%.  

Brian also said he had background in railroad derailment cleanup.  RJ Corman has a staging location west of Columbus in London Ohio.  In the Richie Brothers videos they seemed to know a thing or two about how Corman got rid of their surplus equipment.  Makes me wonder if he worked for them in the past.

Searching the name Brian T Williams turns up a home record near Columbus.  I won't post that because they should still have some privacy.  Street view for the home shows a truck-crane in the driveway with hi-rail wheels on it.  The home is less than 1 mile from the spur in the original post.

I'd say that's the guy and Columbus is the place for sure.  Can't be 100% sure it's the location you linked, but given the proximity it makes sense they might have had some first hand knowledge.



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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, December 23, 2020 11:28 PM

mudchicken
Given what they've done in the past, they would be smart to go looking for a 988 or a 980B plus a 4WD backhoe. Rare that you find on-track equipment with Richie Bros.....even stuff with high-rail gear would be unusual, more the domain of Sterling, Danella et al..

Their Ritchie Brothers footage highlighted several RJ Corman units that were being sold - one with rail wheels, the others without.  Considering how Ritchie Brothers have various auction sites around the country I suspect that it is a relatively easy way for owners of specialized equipment to get it sold into the secondary market.

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Posted by chutton01 on Wednesday, December 23, 2020 9:43 PM

i saw the 'Field Trip to Richie' video yesterday as well, Brian and son seem to be having a blast goofing around on YouTube and showing off stuff like their new 'Rail-Saw'.  The permission slip bit was kinda cringy...
mudchicken, not sure they need any big Cats at this time (although having a back-hoe never hurts); I am pretty positive they are not deep in the thickest forest of Ohio, but rather on the outskirts of an industrial park on the east of Columbus Ohio, next to suburban subdivisions.
We know they are in Ohio, and they kinda let slip they are sorta around Columbus.
Brian  in a response to a comment in an early video about the line stated the main plant which used rail serve was a (beer) can manufacturing plant that had closed some years back.  Turns out Ball Corporation had closed their manufacturing plant at 350 McCormick Blvd in 2013 (the building with 3 tracks approaching it - more or less the same map link I posted in my OP, and suggested by other commenters on YouTube).  As a additional clue, they kept talking about having to direct their drainage to flow north to a retention pond - well, north of that plant is indeed a retention pond (the bigger, square one, the smaller rounder one is likely part of the housing developement)
Going by Google Maps (not necessary the best idea), as you can see by the map link above the line they have goes North and then curves East  - likely to the switch off to Amcor Ridigi Plastics (which seems like it still exist and is an active rail user, but you can't really tell from undated Google aerials) - well, in that case the distance East Terminal runs is less than a km. Even if Amcor Rigid AND Cemex gave up on rail (sadly, not infesible) and East Terminal went all the way to...Ohio Central? CSX (the OC map on their website...stinks), its still only ~1.02 miles (1.64 km). Oh well, the paved area in back of the former Ball Corp. plant would make a good place to transload power polls and the like.

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Posted by mudchicken on Wednesday, December 23, 2020 8:27 PM

Given what they've done in the past, they would be smart to go looking for a 988 or a 980B plus a 4WD backhoe. Rare that you find on-track equipment with Richie Bros.....even stuff with high-rail gear would be unusual, more the domain of Sterling, Danella et al..

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, December 23, 2020 8:15 PM

Most recent video they posted was about a 'road trip' to a Ritchie Brothers auction site in search of 'deals' on unspecified equipment.

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Posted by mudchicken on Wednesday, December 23, 2020 6:54 PM

The weirdness continues near (south of) Byesville, OH with a piece of former B&O/CSX/CUOH track that shows the confusion that can happen when people don't play by long established federal rule. Don't think this is the subject of this thread, but just as weird. (and "I dunno" won't be accepted as an excuse) ... STB FD-36432/ Independence Rail Works / 3.6 miles of Guernsey County OH track

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west

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