Definitely agree NYSW would be a superior connection to the Massena Line. It was not part of the sale agreement.
CSX wanted to keep all interchange with the Massena Line and so ownership of the line was going to transfer to CN at a point just north of Syracuse with trackage rights on CSX to interchange points in Syracuse.
The STB tried to slip in the Finger Lakes Railway and CSX said no dice.
FGLK does allow for a connection from a CN-owned Massena Sub to NS. But the real possibility for a CN-NS connection would be via NYSW from Syracuse to Binghamton and then handoff to NS.
NS could then run to points south or to the NYC metro or alternatively freight could hauled by NYSW from Binghamton to northern NJ for delivery or handoff to NS.
The Finger Lakes Railway connects with NS at Geneva.
From there it is a short jaunt down NS to Corning, the Southern Tier and NS Facilities in New Jersey.
https://images.app.goo.gl/Tcd24ZJfguYCzS9TA
tree68 MidlandMike What happened? I thought that was a done deal. Don't know the rationale for including FLRR, as they wouldn't provide a through route to any major destination. Suzy-Q, on the other hand, would provide access to Binghampton, the Southern Tier line, and points south. Many feel it's not going to happen, if that's not already the case.
MidlandMike What happened? I thought that was a done deal.
Don't know the rationale for including FLRR, as they wouldn't provide a through route to any major destination. Suzy-Q, on the other hand, would provide access to Binghampton, the Southern Tier line, and points south.
Many feel it's not going to happen, if that's not already the case.
It wasn't CN that wanted the FLRR interchange, it was the STB that imposed it as a condition of the sale. Same result either way - CSX said no dice, and it is evidently a deal breaker for them.
MidlandMikeWhat happened? I thought that was a done deal.
As I understand it, CN wanted rights to interchange with Finger Lakes Railway and Susquehanna (NYS&W) and CSX wouldn't agree to it.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68 As long as the east is in the picture - CN tried to buy the CSX St. Lawrence Sub (former CR Montreal secondary, nee NYC) to no avail. CN power is/was common on the line. The purchase would have brought them into Syracuse.
As long as the east is in the picture - CN tried to buy the CSX St. Lawrence Sub (former CR Montreal secondary, nee NYC) to no avail. CN power is/was common on the line. The purchase would have brought them into Syracuse.
What happened? I thought that was a done deal.
daveklepperAlso Rouses Point and the Buffalo-Niagra Falls (Niagra Jc.?) area?
daveklepper Also Rouses Point and the Buffalo-Niagra Falls (Niagra Jc.?) area?
Also Rouses Point and the Buffalo-Niagra Falls (Niagra Jc.?) area?
I said "west of the Great Lakes".
Fort Erie/Buffalo and the south of Montreal area are also interchanges, but only for eastern traffic. Most western Canada-US east coast freight seems to go through Chicago these days, and the Niagara region is a shadow of its former self with regard to rail operations, both freight and passenger.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
kgbw49 It might also mean any traffic bound for Iowa, Missouri, Kansas, Arkansas, Oklahoma and Texas from the West, coming down from Winnipeg. In theory that could interxhange in Superior, WI. But with the way those 12,000 foot merchandise trains work it might be faster to not have work events at Pokegama Yard, drop a block on a siding near Owen and have it moved to Minneapolis over the former Wisconsin Central/Soo Line.
It might also mean any traffic bound for Iowa, Missouri, Kansas, Arkansas, Oklahoma and Texas from the West, coming down from Winnipeg. In theory that could interxhange in Superior, WI. But with the way those 12,000 foot merchandise trains work it might be faster to not have work events at Pokegama Yard, drop a block on a siding near Owen and have it moved to Minneapolis over the former Wisconsin Central/Soo Line.
CN interchanges with both UP and BNSF in Superior, but even more traffic goes through Chicago and more southerly interchanges like Memphis. Not surprising that CN wants to keep as much of the haul as possible on their own rails.
Other than the Emerson, MB gateway, Vancouver, BC is the only other major interchange between CN and an American railroad at or near the Canadian border west of the Great Lakes.
SD60MAC9500 It's a Logistics/Grain Terminal operated by Ceres Global Ag, and it's at the end of BNSF's Niobe Sub. Which connects to the Crosby Sub. Inturn reaching the Glasgow Sub which is part of the Hi-Line.
It's a Logistics/Grain Terminal operated by Ceres Global Ag, and it's at the end of BNSF's Niobe Sub. Which connects to the Crosby Sub. Inturn reaching the Glasgow Sub which is part of the Hi-Line.
I worked on that project for the BNSF Engineering Dept when it was still in the conceptual phase. There were some engineering challenges concerning to tie it in to the small, somewhat neglected yard at Northgate (ND), but they were nothing compared to the challenges faced by the lawyers trying to figure out how to get the necessary permits for a new rail crossing of the international border, especially one built and operated by a company (Ceres) that is not a common carrier. Safe to say that probably no one alive was available with any experience in exactly that situation.
I had turned it over to others by the time it got built, but I believe that in the end they decided it was not a new crossing after all - just a minor change in the alignment of the existing border crossing that had once connected the CN and the Great Northern. (The tracks on that originally alignment are still there, or at least were when I visited the place in 2012 or 2013, although the rails are buried underneath the gravel road that runs along the Canadian side of the border.)
The Ceres facility provides a way for trucks to deliver grain for export to the US (or pass-through transportation to Mexico) without each truck having to go through customs. Not coincidentally, it was constructed around the time of the dissolution of the Canadian Wheat Board.
There was some other kind-of-odd customs arrangement there in Northgate too, some sort of facility on the US side that Canadian trucks can access without passing through the normal border crossing. I don't think I ever understood it then and I sure don't now.
The difference in between the cozy Canadian Border Services Agency building and the gleaming new steel-and-glass US CPB building is rather comical, or at least it probably is if you're a Canadian. Some people from Saudi Arabia crashed some planes from Boston into some into buildings in New York City, and we responded by building a massive new boarder checkpoint used by at least a dozen vehicles each day in Nowhere, ND.
Dan
Eastern half of the US actually; although the line could be shifted more to the west. My former employer had traffic originating on BNSF in Texas and CN insisted that come to them at Minneapolis.
daveklepper Eastern half of Canada, I presume.
Eastern half of Canada, I presume.
It might also mean any traffic bound for Iowa, Missouri, Kansas, Arkansas, Oklahoma and Texas from the West, coming down from Winnipeg. In theory that could interchange in Superior, WI. But with the way those 12,000 foot merchandise trains work it might be faster to not have work events at Pokegama Yard, drop a block on a siding near Owen and have it moved to Minneapolis over the former Wisconsin Central/Soo Line.
At the point I pulled the pin almost a year and a half back; CN was shifting all interchange with BNSF to Minneapolis. This would be for traffic moving within the eastern half of the country, of course.
Curt
This is the Lat Lon from Bing Maps, satelite view shows the large race track type facility. Google maps is missing most of it.
49.013946, -102.264537
daveklepper But without rail cnnection to ny other line? And can you describe the loading facility?
But without rail cnnection to ny other line?
And can you describe the loading facility?
It's a Logistics/Grain Terminal operated by Ceres Global Ag, and it's at the end of BNSF's Niobe Sub. Which connects to the Crosby Sub. In turn reaching the Glasgow Sub which is part of the Hi-Line.
The CN line into Northgate was abandoned some time ago, after many years of disuse. But quite recently BNSF crossed into Canada at that point and has built a loading facility just north of the border.
John
Does the BNSF (former GN) still interchange with the Canadian National at Northgate, ND? If so, how many trains/cars are interchanged there?
Ed Burns
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