Yesterday I saw a BNSF train with more than 50 cars of old ties. Moreover, I have seen thousands of old ties stacked up along the UP from Waco to Temple and from Holland, TX to Taylor, TX.
What happens to the old ties?
There was a time when the best of them might end up at a garden center for you to buy to landscape around your house.
Any more, they have to be remediated, although I have no clue as to how that happens.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
(deleted duplicate post)
Most are used as fuel in co-generation plants after being ground-up. A few find their way into yards and backtracks (or shortlines) if they make the grade.
tree68 There was a time when the best of them might end up at a garden center for you to buy to landscape around your house. Any more, they have to be remediated, although I have no clue as to how that happens.
When my wife and I bought our house in Dallas, the driveway was lined on one side with old railroad ties. We kept them in place for more than 10 years but ultimately disposed of them. I don't remember how we got rid of them.
On CSX when ties are replaced, in many cases, they are cut out of the track and the tie butts get loaded to co-generation plants for disposal.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
JPS1When my wife and I bought our house in Dallas, the driveway was lined on one side with old railroad ties. We kept them in place for more than 10 years but ultimately disposed of them. I don't remember how we got rid of them.
As far as landscaping is concerned, they are the cheapest to use for retaining walls but also fall apart the quickest. Most landscaping companies are not skilled enough to install them properly so in some cases they fall apart in less than 5 years. Properly installed they only last 15-20 years at the most.
About 1986 I bought three or four ties that had once supported the Phoebe Snow and the Lake Cities. The last tie was rotting and falling apart when I had a guy with a truck come by last week and take it off my hands. I paid $35 for the three or four ties; I gave him $20 and a big tip to get rid of one. The city wasn't interested in taking it, as it had creosote and is considered unsuitable for composting.
If I had to do it over I'd never have bought them in the first place. Railroad ties never look like anything else. Better gardeners use stones, bricks or concrete.
Crossties (Railroad) Recycling and Disposal
https://askinglot.com/open-detail/635949
"Recycling/Disposal Options
Recycling/disposal options vary by location due to the availability of secondary materials markets and state and local rules. In 2008, the Railroad Tie Association (RTA) conducted a crosstie disposal survey. The results are:
The most widely used disposal option is use as a biofuel in cogeneration plants. Prior to burning as a fuel, the crossties are shredded using heavy-duty equipment that can process 20 tons of crossties per hour. The shredded material is then hauled to a cogeneration plant for use as fuel."
---------------------------------------------
Using old ties in landscaping
https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/garden-how-to/info/are-railroad-ties-safe.htm
"The EPA has denounced these repurposed barriers as toxic and not recommended for the garden."
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
GN_FanBack in the day (mid to lat 60's), both the NP and MILW in Montana cut the ties in half and burned them on the ROW. Thirty years later, I bought a bunch of old ties at Home Depot for $7 each for the back yard.
I remember seeing the old ties smoldering along the PRR between Altoona and Harrisburg. The EPA put an end to that practice.
JPS1What happens to the old ties?
BaltACD On CSX when ties are replaced, in many cases, they are cut out of the track and the tie butts get loaded to co-generation plants for disposal.
I remember seeing this done on the C&O years ago - two large saws cut the ties inside the guage, resulting in three pieces. The two outside pieces were kicked out and the middle piece was picked up and kicked to the outside of the guage.
These days, I mostly see the entire tie pushed/pulled out to be replaced by the new tie. Those whole ties usually end up in large piles along the ROW, to be picked up later by either a truck or a train of gons equipped with a crane.
Because creosote is environmentally unfriendly, old ties are not the best thing to have decaying in your garden. From the railroads' point of view, because of their past ownership and then sale, there is the possibility of a later date in court resulting from subsequent use or misuse, since the railroads are assumed to have deep pockets. It's much safer from a liability perspective to dispose of them in a co-gen plant.
The railway museum I volunteer at is stuck with a large number of them from past track repairs. So we have spread them out on the ground to form a large deck in our laydown/material storage area, to keep everything off the ground and out of the mud. Nothing like getting two birds stoned at once!
CN ships used ties to a incinerator/co-gen plant in Quebec, and no longer sells or even gives them away due to the above-mentioned liability and environmental issues.
We still get people showing up and asking to buy some, if no one is around I usually give them directions to one of the many old tie piles that are still found near the track in rural areas. Of course I also mention that they didn't hear this from me.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
cx500 Because creosote is environmentally unfriendly, old ties are not the best thing to have decaying in your garden. From the railroads' point of view, because of their past ownership and then sale, there is the possibility of a later date in court resulting from subsequent use or misuse, since the railroads are assumed to have deep pockets. It's much safer from a liability perspective to dispose of them in a co-gen plant.
These days used railroad ties and their dsposal are a 'thorny' issue; for the reasons that cx500 mentioned: environmental issues surrounding the remaining creosote residue in those ties. (include, careful of legal issues,and those enviromental issues, as well. )
Over the last couple of months in this area (wellington,ks., via mulvane,ks. augusta,ks and into the line through the Flint Hills areas) we have seen a fairly heavy(scheduled(?) maintenance program around this area on the the BNSF's lines. Many carloads of new ties distributed and later old replaced ties loaded for transit to a disposal facility(?).
All sorts of activities for lineside observers to see, and their MOW crew's 'critters' running back and forth; not to menton the contractor trains, GREX Ballast trains, BNSFs own automated GPS ballast train, and rail grinders from LORAM.
The used ties seem to be taken out 'whole' ,and loaded in cars, and on flatbeded "Brent' trucks for their trips to where ever their tie heaven is? Farther East or North(?) they built new track facilities, installed switches, which also got some loads of CWR. Not much CWR was installed around here, this time, mostly tie renewal. [Note: for Mike 90]
Ties that have some life left in them might be reused for trackage that sees lighter duty. Or they may be sold to short lines or tourist railroads.
In years past, I've seen ties replaced that didn't look too bad at a casual glance. Now a days in the era of PSR and what seems to be longer cycles between tie gangs, there aren't many that don't look "well - worn" now.
We just had a tie gang go through (still working over around the Cedar Rapids area, I believe) and it's been said it was a few years over due.
I also assume we're talking wood ties. Concrete ties around here get ground up.
Jeff
jeffhergert I also assume we're talking wood ties. Concrete ties around here get ground up. Jeff
CN just dumps the old concrete ties in great big piles beside a back track, usually but not always out of sight of towns and major roads.
Over the past couple years they have started salvaging some of the "better" ones for use in curves on branchlines, some of these have already failed. Not exactly a surprise, considering they sat outside for years.
Concrete ties cannot be used at or near level crossings, as road salt corrodes them.
FRom what I've heard concrete ties haven't turned out to be the panacea everyone thought they'd be. Maybe I've heard wrong? Or are some better than others?
Flintlock76 From what I've heard concrete ties haven't turned out to be the panacea everyone thought they'd be. Maybe I've heard wrong? Or are some better than others?
From what I've heard concrete ties haven't turned out to be the panacea everyone thought they'd be. Maybe I've heard wrong? Or are some better than others?
I've heard that they don't weather derailments well, tending to crack as wheels roll across them while wood simply gets scarred, except in the worst cases (ie, tracks are really ripped up).
This would change a simple, all cars upright derailment into the replacement of potentially a lot of ties.
Wood ties absorb and disapate impact shocks, concrete ties do not. If you do not have properly constructed subgrade fill, stay away from concrete ties. Concrete ties make poor switch ties and track machinery stuggles to lift and/or line them. Ballast gets crushed or pulverized faster by concrete as opposed to wood.
Creosote is bad stuff in its original state or in new ties. After 25-35 years of normal life, most of that has disapated and gone back into nature (no longer in the tie). How used ties are handled and disposed of, going place to place, is largely due to local interpretation and practical understanding. In SE Colorado, we had people burning the stuff in home fireplaces.
Used to be that there was competitive bidding to pay the railroads to buy and remove the used ties, now the railroads pay the contractors to pick up and remove ALL of the ties. Getting the contractors to pick-up all the broken ties, splinters and pieces continues to be a problem. Frequently older ties are intact only on the top few inches where the hard/sharp ballast can't chew-up the wood that is being held in place by the ballast and "locked-up" (round gravel is a capital bozo no-no, doesn't lock-up anything)
Concrete ties are a special breed of concrete material (harder than conventional concrete) encapsulating highly tensioned steel cable and holding steel fastening attachments for clips that hold the rail. If the cable fails or the clip connections are destroyed, the concrete tie is useless. Most non-derailment failures are center broken ties. Many wind up in parking lots as tire bumpers/curbs or as rip rap.
tree68I remember seeing this done on the C&O years ago - two large saws cut the ties inside the guage, resulting in three pieces. The two outside pieces were kicked out and the middle piece was picked up and kicked to the outside of the guage.
Tie Shear
Durango Press HO
My father's boat building business was located close to the 4 track main line of the NYNH&HRR in Connecticut and he would on a regular basis talk with a ROW supervisor and the pulled ties would be dumped on the long bank of railroad close to our boatyard. Those old ties would be essential to building the long docks which were planked with timber salvaged from a massive Erie Railroad carfloat my father had bought and beached at another site. Railroad scrap was a basic element of our business infrastructure! A number of years ago, CSX did a major tie replacement effort on the two track line used by the Lake Shore Limited which I used to frequent from Syracuse to Chicago and I recall the large piles of pulled ties which were later sorted with the usable ones baled and the rest piled for other disposal. Perhaps the creosote ties from my youth had better penetration because they lasted for many, many years in service as dock material. Several years ago, I read that in India, there was a company making railroad ties from plastic trash with very good service comparison to sound treated wood ties. Now that would be a great product here if it is cost compeditive. One man's trash is anothers treasure.
Down here in Florida, I have rented construction dumpsters a few times.
The first item listed in the "NOT ALLOWED" section is railroad ties. You can put almost anything non-liquid in a construction dumpster, but not railroad ties.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Typical - Irrational fear of something no longer there (New ties are loaded with creosote placed under heat and pressure; old ties have no to considerably less as the excess has bled off)
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.