Trains.com

UP and BNSF unable to handle containers?

3166 views
22 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    August 2004
  • From: The 17th hole at TPC
  • 2,283 posts
Posted by n012944 on Monday, September 14, 2020 12:25 PM

I guess they just could cut out the UP and BN to get to the midwest.

massive-container-ship-bigger-than-a-football-field-sets-record-under-bayonne-bridge.html

An "expensive model collector"

  • Member since
    September 2002
  • From: Sterling Heights, Michigan
  • 1,691 posts
Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Monday, September 14, 2020 9:49 AM
 

Convicted One

 

 
SD60MAC9500
. Seattle has been slapped with a surcharge as well. $500 to force boxes to Sou Cal. That could have very well increased..

 

I wonder if that has anything to do with the infestation of public insurrection that has gripped the Seattle area?

 

UMAX and EMP pools are running tight on capacity right now. They need as many boxes in Sou Cal as possible. The reason for the surcharge.

 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, September 14, 2020 1:11 AM

Question.  Do the RRs have access to the container ships that are arriving at a port with the ships load and ETA ?  If they do ? ? ? ?

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • 1,754 posts
Posted by diningcar on Sunday, September 13, 2020 7:44 PM

Well said Greyhounds. Always like to hear from those who have been there - done that.

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Antioch, IL
  • 4,371 posts
Posted by greyhounds on Sunday, September 13, 2020 4:54 PM

It's a problem, but not a crisis.  Nobody saw it coming, not even the truckers.  The carriers will work through the problem and solve it.  

Should the carriers have seen this coming?  I don't know.  They're not clairvoyant.  Hell, you can make a case that the US should have seen Pearl Harbor coming.  But they kind of missed that one.  Same thing with the Battle of the Bulge.  Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future.

I did intermodal business forecasting for a railroad.  It ain't easy and you're gonna' get surprised.  Then you're gonna' have to explain why you got surprised.  Nobody can see the future.

On top of that this COVID-19 thing has everything totally out of whack.  No carrier, neither truck, rail, air, sea, whatever wants one way loading.  Sometimes it can't be avoided such as with grain, coal, crude oil, etc. There's just nothing going back that will fit in to the equipment nor moving in the volume needed to balance the freight flow.  So then the one way freight flow has to bear the entire cost of the round trip.  The equipment and crews do have to go back for the next load.

But...  With general freight and perishables the carriers try to achieve balance.  This splits the necessary costs of the round trip over two, or more, revenue loads.  The carriers can't do this perfectly, but they try to get as close as they can.

COVID-19 has disrupted consumption patterns.  So normal freight flows are also disrupted.  Normal costs and revenues are out the window.  The carriers have to figure out how to deal with this.

They're doing so and this will all get worked out.  Meanwhile, don't imagine a short term problem in to an unsolvable crisis.

 

"By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that.
  • Member since
    December 2017
  • From: I've been everywhere, man
  • 4,269 posts
Posted by SD70Dude on Sunday, September 13, 2020 2:02 PM

Meanwhile things are really congested up here, laid off employees are being recalled left and right, and CN is laughing all the way to the bank.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 6,901 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Sunday, September 13, 2020 1:58 PM

SD60MAC9500
 

 

 
jeffhergert

 

 
Convicted One

With the alleged $3,500 per container surcharge mentioned in the story, I wonder if Norfolk Southern can put a trans-pacific container in Chicago cheaper than UP can?

 

 

 

It's not alleged.

https://www.joc.com/rail-intermodal/class-i-railroads/union-pacific-railroad/levying-3500-surcharge-small-shippers-out-la_20200820.html

Jeff 

 

 

 

 

 

The surcharge has since increased to $5K. Seattle has been slapped with a surcharge as well. $500 to force boxes to Sou Cal. That could have very well increased..

 
 

I also thought the surcharge went to $5000, but I think it's still $3500.  Reading the article is talks about another $1500 surcharge, but I think it was to bring the total up to $3500 for customers or locations that weren't already at the $3500 level.

Although I wouldn't put it past them to raise it to $5000 or more.

Jeff

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 6,901 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Sunday, September 13, 2020 1:54 PM

BaltACD

 

 
GERALD L MCFARLANE JR
 
charlie hebdo 
York1

So who is to be believed?

The unnamed source who said containers could not be run by trains, or BNSF who said they have cars and crews ready to move containers? 

It sounds like the UP response is worse than BNSF's because of PSR.  

What I found interestin was the response of Vina from UP...lost money on deadhead moves and repositioning of equipment and railroaders?  Not sure about him, but last time I was involved in the logistics business and the railroads moved equipment west to handle the fall peak, those crews didn't deadhead for nothing(most didn't dead head at all, they brought the baretables out west and then took loaded trains east, that doesn't sound imbalanced to me).  Traffic has always been imbalanced going east vs coming west for at least the last 50 years, you'd think they would've figured that out by now(but that would require marketing and a sales force).

 

From the UP's PSR response it sounds as if they are acknowleding the imbalance and imposing the surcharge because of it - just not eating the expense of it as they have in the past.

 

It's to discourge the extra business altogether.  There more worried about a slight rise in the OR than extra net money in the company's pocket.  

Jeff

 

 

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • 4,557 posts
Posted by Convicted One on Sunday, September 13, 2020 12:18 PM

SD60MAC9500
. Seattle has been slapped with a surcharge as well. $500 to force boxes to Sou Cal. That could have very well increased..

I wonder if that has anything to do with the infestation of public insurrection that has gripped the Seattle area?

  • Member since
    September 2002
  • From: Sterling Heights, Michigan
  • 1,691 posts
Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Sunday, September 13, 2020 9:49 AM
 

jeffhergert

 

 
Convicted One

With the alleged $3,500 per container surcharge mentioned in the story, I wonder if Norfolk Southern can put a trans-pacific container in Chicago cheaper than UP can?

 

 

 

It's not alleged.

https://www.joc.com/rail-intermodal/class-i-railroads/union-pacific-railroad/levying-3500-surcharge-small-shippers-out-la_20200820.html

Jeff 

 

 

 

The surcharge has since increased to $5K. Seattle has been slapped with a surcharge as well. $500 to force boxes to Sou Cal. That could have very well increased..

 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
  • Member since
    August 2004
  • From: The 17th hole at TPC
  • 2,283 posts
Posted by n012944 on Sunday, September 13, 2020 8:58 AM

 I have seen a lot of intermodal equipment being pulled out of storage over the last month or so.

An "expensive model collector"

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, September 13, 2020 7:53 AM

GERALD L MCFARLANE JR
 
charlie hebdo 
York1

So who is to be believed?

The unnamed source who said containers could not be run by trains, or BNSF who said they have cars and crews ready to move containers? 

It sounds like the UP response is worse than BNSF's because of PSR.  

What I found interestin was the response of Vina from UP...lost money on deadhead moves and repositioning of equipment and railroaders?  Not sure about him, but last time I was involved in the logistics business and the railroads moved equipment west to handle the fall peak, those crews didn't deadhead for nothing(most didn't dead head at all, they brought the baretables out west and then took loaded trains east, that doesn't sound imbalanced to me).  Traffic has always been imbalanced going east vs coming west for at least the last 50 years, you'd think they would've figured that out by now(but that would require marketing and a sales force).

From the UP's PSR response it sounds as if they are acknowleding the imbalance and imposing the surcharge because of it - just not eating the expense of it as they have in the past.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    September 2014
  • 376 posts
Posted by GERALD L MCFARLANE JR on Saturday, September 12, 2020 11:49 PM

charlie hebdo
 
York1

So who is to be believed?

The unnamed source who said containers could not be run by trains, or BNSF who said they have cars and crews ready to move containers? 

It sounds like the UP response is worse than BNSF's because of PSR. 

What I found interestin was the response of Vina from UP...lost money on deadhead moves and repositioning of equipment and railroaders?  Not sure about him, but last time I was involved in the logistics business and the railroads moved equipment west to handle the fall peak, those crews didn't deadhead for nothing(most didn't dead head at all, they brought the baretables out west and then took loaded trains east, that doesn't sound imbalanced to me).  Traffic has always been imbalanced going east vs coming west for at least the last 50 years, you'd think they would've figured that out by now(but that would require marketing and a sales force).

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,020 posts
Posted by tree68 on Saturday, September 12, 2020 10:45 PM

Saw a whole lot of empty wells, etc headed west through Deshler this afternoon...

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, September 12, 2020 9:37 PM

Lack of well cars?  Have noted last few days that containers are even  on some old TOFC cars.

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 6,901 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Saturday, September 12, 2020 5:44 PM

Convicted One

With the alleged $3,500 per container surcharge mentioned in the story, I wonder if Norfolk Southern can put a trans-pacific container in Chicago cheaper than UP can?

 

It's not alleged.

https://www.joc.com/rail-intermodal/class-i-railroads/union-pacific-railroad/levying-3500-surcharge-small-shippers-out-la_20200820.html

Jeff 

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, September 12, 2020 5:42 PM

I suspect the article is more about the increase in truck rates than it is about rail capacity.  West Coast to Mid-West at $1k per container the trucker is losing his ass.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • 4,557 posts
Posted by Convicted One on Saturday, September 12, 2020 5:14 PM

With the alleged $3,500 per container surcharge mentioned in the story, I wonder if Norfolk Southern can put a trans-pacific container in Chicago cheaper than UP can?

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Saturday, September 12, 2020 4:35 PM

York1

So who is to be believed?

The unnamed source who said containers could not be run by trains, or BNSF who said they have cars and crews ready to move containers?

 

It sounds like the UP response is worse than BNSF's because of PSR.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Sunny (mostly) San Diego
  • 1,920 posts
Posted by ChuckCobleigh on Saturday, September 12, 2020 3:59 PM

York1

So who is to be believed?

The unnamed source who said containers could not be run by trains, or BNSF who said they have cars and crews ready to move containers?

Maybe look at EB stack trains along the BNSF southern transcon, through Barstow, Flagstaff, Belen, La Plata, etc., for an idea?

  • Member since
    February 2018
  • From: Flyover Country
  • 5,557 posts
Posted by York1 on Saturday, September 12, 2020 3:45 PM

So who is to be believed?

The unnamed source who said containers could not be run by trains, or BNSF who said they have cars and crews ready to move containers?

York1 John       

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Sunny (mostly) San Diego
  • 1,920 posts
Posted by ChuckCobleigh on Saturday, September 12, 2020 3:02 PM
  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
UP and BNSF unable to handle containers?
Posted by charlie hebdo on Saturday, September 12, 2020 2:43 PM

This seems at odds with layoffs.  Or is a consequence of PSR layoffs. 

https://ajot.com/insights/full/ai-consultant-says-shippers-using-u.s-west-coast-ports-cant-book-rail-on-bnsf-and-up

 

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy