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Are these ditch lights?

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  • Member since
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Posted by traisessive1 on Sunday, August 30, 2020 7:54 AM

In modern day freight railroading it is only CSX and NS that still order their locomotives with the flashing lights. BNSF and UP do not, though they still could have some older engines running around with it. 

10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ... 

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, August 27, 2020 12:36 AM

Current Canadian ditchlights are angled the same as American ones, or at least they seem to be.  Our units with permanent ditchlights do not have them mounted at any obvious angle.

As seen in the OP's photo, BC Rail continued ordering locomotives with the extra "corner lights" even after the modern ditchlight regulations came into being.  All later BC Rail power came with this, and the remaining Dash-8's and Dash-9's now operated by CN still have their corner lights. 

CN pioneered the use of what were originally called "mountain lights" in the immediate post-WWII era, on lines west of Jasper, Alberta.  These were removable and were powered from the snowplow plug.  I've been told that they were used on both steam and diesel power and CN certainly was still operating revenue service steam when the lights first came out, but I have yet to find a photo of a steam locomotive with them.

It was the drum/barrel headlight that swiveled, on both steam and early diesel power.  The case itself did not move, the internals did.

In my limited experience with American units it seems that the ditchlights flash when the whistle is blown, and this also turns them on automatically if they were not on already.  I got to use those junk ex-CSX leasers far too often a couple years ago (one time was too many), and their ditchlight switch was labelled "crossing lights". 

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, August 26, 2020 4:38 PM

Ditch lights (in Canada) are always 'cross-eyed' (the left one beaming across the track to light up the right side and vice versa).  When there are dual lights that shine straight ahead, like United States federally-mandated 'ditchlights', they are more properly called 'auxiliary lights'.  Some lights in Canada can be called 'inspection lights' but I do not know precisely how these are aimed and have to call in Bob Smith for 'the knowledge'.

The design regulations for these are in the "Locomotive Design Requirements" (if there is an SOR code corresponding to our CFR, I don't know it and can't find it) as 16.2(3).  This calls for the beams to be aimed vertically exactly as for headlights - beam 'strikes the rail' at 800' out - but 'the streams cross' horizontally at 400'.  (The regulations on how to use these are in a different set of regulations that don't concern us here.)  The US version (applied by 1997) is in CFR 229.125(d) but there are many dog-chasing-squirrel digressions to follow as you read the lighting subsection.  Note the exception that makes Canadian ditchlighting legal to run here.

I was told that the BCR Alcos were built with high-mounted lights on the hoods and when Transport Canada mandated lower ditch lights they kept the upper ones, although I don't know if angled or not in particular eras.  I believe as built these were typical sealed beams in surface-mount housings and the large lights in the picture are an 'improvement'.

Steam locomotives had enhanced lighting, too, including some with cable-steered headlights.

As I recall, the first organized experiments with 'triangle lighting' for visibility were on passenger trains like the Super Continental circa 1956, but these were in removable brackets and applied/removed by territory only for 'mountain work'.  Later, in the 1960s, CN in particular started applying lights for running safety, and these became mandated after investigation of a couple of wrecks circa 1974 clearly showed the CN arrangement would likely have prevented them.  In the United States, I suspect backlash to the FRA 'decision' that all auxiliary lighting had to work or be repaired at railroad expense at 92-day inspections made it difficult for FRA to follow suit for freight safety; they finally found their pretext in the 1990s with 'grade crossing visibility' being the safety-related reason -- this is why American ditchlights face straight forward and often alternately flash, both silly for proper ditch lighting...

We have had some detailed threads on this subject as far back as 2006.

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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, August 26, 2020 4:30 PM

Although commonly referred to as "ditch lights," the lights one finds on most locomotives, which are aimed straight ahead, are technically known as "auxiliary lights," as adkrr64 points out.

True ditch lights are aimed across the locomotive and into the ditches at the edges of the ROW.

Ditch lights preceeded, and were probably the genesis of, auxiliary lights.

A locomotive such as this has both.  Auxiliary lights are required by reg.  A locomotive not so equipped is restricted to 20 MPH over public crossings.

Flashing is optional.  Many locomotives are set up so the auxiliary lights start flashing when the horn is sounded.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by adkrr64 on Wednesday, August 26, 2020 2:55 PM

The ones down on the pilot (just above the snow plow and cut lever) are definitely ditch lights, more formally referred to as auxilliary headlights. The dual vertical lights at the top of the low hood is the main headlight. I'm not so sure about the two on the lower part of the short hood. Perhaps they were intended as ditch lights at one point, but replaced with the more traditional placement of the ones on the pilot. I believe there are FRA regulations (and probably corresponding Canadian ones) that define minimum spacing/ location of ditch lights, and it could be the ones on the low hood failed to meet the requirements, leading to the installation of the ones on the pilot.

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Are these ditch lights?
Posted by Traincraft199 on Wednesday, August 26, 2020 12:30 PM

what are the lights on the nose of this locomotive? (under the headlight) I've seen many with these lights

Building my first layout, 4x8 contemporary urban area in HO scale 

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