FRED / EOT / Marker Question

[tree68]

Heard the local switcher pass the defect detector last night. Axle count = 8, assumption is that it was the engine (usually a GP-38) and one car. Didn't see it (missed it by minutes at a crossing), but safe to assume it was a boxcar. They were southbound on the main, in EC-1 territory.

The question: Is it necessary to install/arm the EOT if there is only one car in the train? Will a flag do?

It was dusk at the time, which adds to the question the need for a night-visible marker. If it's not FRED, the time honored fusee would of course replace the flag.

It's easy to understand the need for FRED on a longer train, but the question about a one car train crossed my mind.

[Saxman]

You have brought up a two part question: 1. Does the train need to be able to initiate an emergency brake application from the rear? 2. What type of rear end marker does the train need?

Question 1. The follwoing types of trains DO NOT require a Two Way Telemetry Device.

[Anonymous]

I would think they would need a FRED at the end.

[BentnoseWillie]

In Canada, an SBU (EOT) is required unless crew members can see the rear of the train at all times - as is the case with an engine and one freight car, or with a passenger train.

They do, however, have to carry a reflective or illuminated red marker at the rear of the train. CN crews use an SBU for that purpose.

[Anonymous]

I have seen alot of trains with only the flag.

[Saxman]

O.K. I screwed up in my post. Man I hate "Fat Fingers." Here we go again.

Tree 68, you have a two part question. Does the train in question need to have a functioning two way telemetry and what type of marker does this train need.

First question: All trains are to be equipped with a Two Way Telemetry except those listed below:
1. Local and work trains with LESS than 4,000 trailing tons. (Caps mine)
2. Passanger trains.
3. Trains that do not exceed 30 MPH.
4. Trains with equipment at the rear of train such as, locomotives occupied caboose, occupied passanger cars, etc. (etc. example would be Distributed Power trains as this locomotive is not occupied)
5. Light engines.
Another condition is related to the average grade over a specific lenght of track and the trailing tonnage. This is not an issue on my road and not listed as one of the trains not needing a two way telemetry.

The answer to question one based on your question is: No the train would not need a working two way telemetry. Why? You say it is a local train. It is an engine and one car. (trailing tons less than 4,000 I hope.) You make no reference to grades of 2% or greater over 2 continuous miles.

Reality. The crew probably armed the thing. When I was working as a Road Foreman of Engines, crews would ask me this very question. We would review the rule and in the end we would decide since the conductor was at the rear to hang the marker verify pressure for a brake test, how much more time and effort did it take to test the rear end dump. There are also FRA requlations that now require the engineer when making an emergency brake application to initiate it from the rear first. To do that it must be armed. Basically I would tell crews if its available, arm it. Was one of those let's trap the boss questions.

Question two. Yes needed a high visbility marker. Needed 1 hour before sunset until 1 hour after sunrise. Assume that since you mention EC-1 territory train is operating on a main track and not within yard limits.

While Road Foreman I was questioned by an FRA inspector about reports from crews that my road was sending trains out of the terminal without markers and told to go 30 MPH. In reality, what was happening was that the some of the NS engines we used for this particular train had not yet been equppied to switch from NS mode to AAR mode for the telemetry. Of course when this train came in, we did not keep the NS marker with the NS power. That would be WAAAAY to easy. So like clock work I would receive a call at home about 0200 and be asked: "Can we send a train out without a marker?" My answer was: "NO!" "Not even at 30 MPH?" " NO!" Further questioning revealed that they could not get the emergency feature to work on the marker. At this point I would ask: "Are you using an NS marker?" Answer: "NO." "Do you have NS power?" " Yes." "O.K. Look in the electrical cabinet on the firemans side. On the door at the bottom there should be a box with a switchch to cahnge from NS to AAR Mode. O.K. no box. You have an NS engine without the module to change from NS-ARR Mode. Unless you can find the NS marker that came in on the inbound, you can try all night long and you wil never get it to arm." "Oh! We used that on train "xyz" and couldn't get it to arm either." "Let's see now this is the third time this week youn have called me at 2 O'clock in the morning. Could you please remember to keep the marker that comes in on the NS train with the NS power. GOOD BYE!!!!!" After explaining this to the FRA inspector, he undserstood what was going on. We sent a train out without a working two way telemetry feature but it did have a marker.

Hope this helps. As my story brings out even "seasoned" railroads get confused with the difference between a marker and two way telemetry.

Saxman

[Richard A]

B-Dubya,

Okay, the gray matter just isn't kicking in this morning. SBU stands for what?

BTW, I went to college many years ago with a guy who used his initials as his name --- BW. He signed his name B-UU.

[BentnoseWillie]

SBU = Sending Brake Unit. I think the correct term for the other half of the system is HBU, but what it stands for escapes me at the moment.

[Saxman]

An SBU is a Sensory Brake Unit. Works in conjunction with an RDU. The RDU and the SBU form a system called TIBS. Now the translation from Canadian to U.S. RDU= Receiver Display Unit. A RDU is the same as a Head Of Train Device or HOT. A SBU is the same as an EOT or End Of Train Device. TIBS is a Train Information Brake System which is what the U.S. calls Two Way Telemetry.

[Mookie]

Adrian - enjoyed your story in Trains! Just finished reading the magazine last nite. Way to go!

Mookie

[tree68]

Just to clear a little bit of air - I just noticed I used the term "switcher," which may have thrown some folks off. The locals here (there are usually two - B778 & B779) range up and down the Montreal Secondary out of Watertown. Depending on that day's needs, they may have a train of zero to a couple dozen at any one point in their travels. If I have my facts straight, this particular job had worked a branch line, and was headed home with one car. It was on the main (Montreal Secondary).

Based on the contributions so far, I'm figuring they might as well have put the EOT on the coupler of the lone car, largely because it was at dusk, therefore calling for a light. During the day they could have gotten by with a flag in the coupler.