Trains.com

How common is a wye?

14923 views
110 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    August 2004
  • From: St. Paul, Minnesota
  • 2,116 posts
How common is a wye?
Posted by Boyd on Sunday, June 28, 2020 2:21 AM

I think I spelled wye correctly, someone tell me if I spelled it wrong. I would guess that the Keddie wye is one of the more famous wye's in the US. There once was a wye about 6 miles from where I live.

Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,669 posts
Posted by Overmod on Sunday, June 28, 2020 3:22 AM

Two kinds of 'wye' here.  The kind epitomized by Keddie is where two main lines siamese together -- Harper's Ferry and a couple of places on the Reading come to mind as examples.

The other kind of wye is the full triangle type that is used to reverse engines or consists where a turntable will not serve.   This can be put many places, including where a diverging line or branch is involved.  

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, June 28, 2020 5:39 AM

Sometimes one kind ibecomes another.   At Brewster, or is it formerly North Brewster, now Southwest, there is a why leading sdxst from the Harlem Div. main line.  It was formerly the connection of the Putnam Division main line to the Harlem and regularly saw passenger servce, but today is just used to turn power.

Wyes are quate common.  Even some on stretcar aand rapid-transit systems.

Attached a photo at Kennelworth on Capitol Transit, end of the line, with a wye required to turn the single-end PCCs.

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, June 28, 2020 7:47 AM

Overmod

Two kinds of 'wye' here.  The kind epitomized by Keddie is where two main lines siamese together -- Harper's Ferry and a couple of places on the Reading come to mind as examples.

The other kind of wye is the full triangle type that is used to reverse engines or consists where a turntable will not serve.   This can be put many places, including where a diverging line or branch is involved.  

 

According to Microsoft's map of Keddie, the wye there is a wye that can be used to turn a train. In essence, it is no different from the wye that used to be in Reform, Alabama, that the AT&N used to turn engines. Is the junction at Harper's Ferry actually called a wye?.

Johnny

  • Member since
    May 2019
  • 1,768 posts
Posted by MMLDelete on Sunday, June 28, 2020 8:02 AM

To me a wye, by definition, is a place where a train can be turned. I don't think Harpers Ferry is a wye, but I really don't know.

Now I'm not really sure why the term evolved as "wye," because the "Y" is only part of it; you need the third leg. It seems like they would have come to be known as "triangles."

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 2,325 posts
Posted by rdamon on Sunday, June 28, 2020 8:25 AM

WYE is also used in 3 phase power Delta being the other ..  almost similar to this discussion. Think the spelling of Wye is to reduce confusion. Wye and Tee is also used in plumbing to refer to fittings.

I always took a wye to mean an equilateral switch where each side is the diverging route.

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • 1,754 posts
Posted by diningcar on Sunday, June 28, 2020 8:38 AM

Cameron Illinois, just a few miles west from Galesburg, has an interesting wye creation. The former Santa Fe and CB&Q mainlines crossed each other with a grade separation for more that 100 years.

With the merger that created BNSF it was deemed necessary for efficient operations to be able to interchage trains at this location. A 'double main line wye' was created to permit such an operation. A google earth view will show how this was accomplished. 

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • 2,678 posts
Posted by kgbw49 on Sunday, June 28, 2020 9:37 AM

Nevada, Iowa has a double wye configuration on the southwest side of town.

This is where the UP Spine Line crosses the UP Overland Route. It allows for trains going in any direction on one to transfer to any direction on the other.

Here are the coordinates for Google Maps:

(42.0229755, -93.4860162)

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Toronto, Canada
  • 2,560 posts
Posted by 54light15 on Sunday, June 28, 2020 9:44 AM

There used to be a wye along Lake Shore Boulevard west of Toronto to turn the 501 Queen streetcars around. I guess it was from when they used double-ended cars and where they would short-turn. It's gone now but I remember where it was. 

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,540 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Sunday, June 28, 2020 10:08 AM

There is also the wye on the south approach to Chicago Union Station where CB&Q (BN/BNSF) and PRR (PC/CR/NS) join to enter CUS.  The third leg is primarilyt the freight connection between BNSF and NS.  In the past, the wye was used to turn PRR 6100, the Worlds' Fair engine.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, June 28, 2020 10:11 AM

I am reposting my Kennelworth wye photo.  At age 15, I aligned the bottom of the Leica's viewfinder with the bottom-chord-track of the wye, and the result in the photo already posted is that buildings, poles, and the streetcar have a slight tilt.  I've repaired that and added some contrast, and tried to rerduce the sprocket-hole effects.

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, June 28, 2020 10:29 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH

There is also the wye on the south approach to Chicago Union Station where CB&Q (BN/BNSF) and PRR (PC/CR/NS) join to enter CUS.  The third leg is primarilyt the freight connection between BNSF and NS.  In the past, the wye was used to turn PRR 6100, the Worlds' Fair engine.

 

The last two times I came into Chicago on the former CB&Q, the train was turned on that wye before entering the station.

Johnny

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, June 28, 2020 10:33 AM

diningcar

Cameron Illinois, just a few miles west from Galesburg, has an interesting wye creation. The former Santa Fe and CB&Q mainlines crossed each other with a grade separation for more that 100 years.

With the merger that created BNSF it was deemed necessary for efficient operations to be able to interchage trains at this location. A 'double main line wye' was created to permit such an operation. A google earth view will show how this was accomplished. 

 

I have noticed the switches on the former Q track; I would not appreciate it if someone erred and I went back to Chicago on the former Santa Fe when I was coming home.Big Smile

Johnny

  • Member since
    August 2019
  • 260 posts
Posted by Psychot on Sunday, June 28, 2020 10:56 AM

My hometown of Dickinson ND has an active wye. I'm not exactly sure what it's used for, though. Presumably turning locomotives for local switching jobs?

  • Member since
    September 2002
  • From: Sterling Heights, Michigan
  • 1,691 posts
Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Sunday, June 28, 2020 11:32 AM
 

I sometimes ask myself wye?

 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
  • Member since
    April 2007
  • 4,557 posts
Posted by Convicted One on Sunday, June 28, 2020 11:42 AM

diningcar
Cameron Illinois, just a few miles west from Galesburg, has an interesting wye creation. The former Santa Fe and CB&Q mainlines crossed each other with a grade separation for more that 100 years. With the merger that created BNSF it was deemed necessary for efficient operations to be able to interchage trains at this location.

That is a remarkable installation. Thanks for sharing.

I wonder if a long freight could take the "short loop" without string lining? (from Cameron and back to cameron)

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • 1,686 posts
Posted by Erik_Mag on Sunday, June 28, 2020 11:56 AM

Wye's were very common on the longer branch lines as they were presumably cheaper to build than turntables and presumably much easier to maintain.

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
  • 23,330 posts
Posted by selector on Sunday, June 28, 2020 12:34 PM

There was a turning wye at Spence's Bridge in south-central British Columbia until about 2009-ish. I drove by there at least twice each year until 2016, and noticed its slow removal from about 2009 until maybe 2011.

Tempus edax rerum.

  • Member since
    February 2018
  • From: Flyover Country
  • 5,557 posts
Posted by York1 on Sunday, June 28, 2020 1:07 PM

I know very little about actual railroad terms.

At Gibbon, Nebraska, the UP mainline from Omaha meets the mainline from Kansas City.

Is this considered a 'wye'?

 

York1 John       

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, June 28, 2020 1:26 PM

In Deggesry's Bristol, Va - Tn  there was once 6 wyes in various locations. They are all gone which will make any Amtrak service to Bristol needing to add one back.   Deg can you name them all ?  Sorry meant if you could locate them ?

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Matthews NC
  • 363 posts
Posted by matthewsaggie on Sunday, June 28, 2020 4:07 PM

Washington Union Station- B&O tracks form the 3rd leg of the wye.

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 9,728 posts
Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, June 28, 2020 4:49 PM

York1

I know very little about actual railroad terms.

At Gibbon, Nebraska, the UP mainline from Omaha meets the mainline from Kansas City.

Is this considered a 'wye'?

 

 

If it's the junction point between two main lines I'd hesitate to call it a wye, but it certainly looks like it could be used as one.

  • Member since
    May 2019
  • 1,768 posts
Posted by MMLDelete on Sunday, June 28, 2020 5:12 PM

York, I may be wrong about this, but my understanding is that a wye is a wye. If you have a triangle where you could turn a train/engine, then, to me, that's a wye. So even though that junction might be never be used for reversing, I think it would still be called a wye.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,669 posts
Posted by Overmod on Sunday, June 28, 2020 5:45 PM
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,020 posts
Posted by tree68 on Sunday, June 28, 2020 6:32 PM

At Deshler, OH, there are three "transfer" tracks that usually are referred to as "wyes" by trainwatchers there.   While they have been used to turn power and some short trains, in general they only serve the purpose of a way to move from one mainline (N-S. E-W) to the other.  

Just south of Deshler, one can pick out where a long-abandoned line took off to the southeast.  It was configured as a wye, from what one can see.

I would opine that where turning equipment is concerned, if a railroad had the real estate available, and the servicing of engines didn't require a roundhouse, that a wye would be the option of choice.  Nevermind other applications (serving customers, branchlines, etc) maintaining three switches has got to be easier than maintaining a turntable.

On the NYC Adirondack Division, there were, successively, two wyes at Big Moose, NY.  The second shared most of a footprint with the first, which became too small for the engines in use. There is little evidence left of either.  According to accounts, when NYC decided they no longer needed the wye there, the property was sold to a man who mined out all of the fill (there was quite a bit), then walked away from the property.

Also on the Adirondack Division, at Carter Station, there was a wye, but only one corner tied into the Adirondack Division.  The wye was there to turn Racquette Lake Railroad equipment around.  A curious setup, but one that may have existed elsewhere.  The other end of the 17 mile long railroad included a loop.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Allentown, PA
  • 9,810 posts
Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Sunday, June 28, 2020 7:39 PM

Two connected wyes at Matteson, Illinois:

41.4950, -87.6986 

41.4979, -87.7020 

It was constructed as part of CN's acquistion of the EJ&E, and was completed in 2012.  It was a great project - very well done - for those of us in the track alignment design sector of railway engineering (note that I had nothing to do with it other than to admire it and suggest it for the advanced course in track alignment design, into which it is being included).  Pretty complete story here:

https://www.arema.org/files/library/2012_Conference_Proceedings/CN_Matteson_IL_Loop_Connection.pdf 

Short version here: http://www.dhke.com/CRJ/matteson.html 

- PDN. 

 

 

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
  • Member since
    April 2015
  • 469 posts
Posted by Enzoamps on Sunday, June 28, 2020 8:10 PM

Wye versus turntable ;  you can turn a whole train on a wye.

Washington Union Station has a big wye.  Passenger trains pull in, then they can back through the wye to turn for return trip.   SOme trains used to wye on the way in, finally backing into the terminal.

I wouldn't call Harpers Ferry a wye, it lacks the third side.  But downstream a few miles at the fine old Point of Rocks station there is a wye where the old main and the metro division split.

  • Member since
    September 2011
  • 6,449 posts
Posted by MidlandMike on Sunday, June 28, 2020 9:34 PM

Wyes were prevalent in the steam era, less so in the diesel era.  Some engine terminals had both turntable and wye.  Wyes were also used to turn freight cars that needed to be un/loaded on a certain side or end.

  • Member since
    September 2011
  • 6,449 posts
Posted by MidlandMike on Sunday, June 28, 2020 9:51 PM

Mission Junction by LA Union Station has an unusual wye configuration.  Rail lines run along both sides of the Los Angles River, and both of the lines have wyes into LAUPT.  The leads that cross the river do not have enough room to make the the turn between the bridge and the riverside line, so they have to cross over the mainline and then curve back to the riverside.

https://www.mytopo.com/maps/?lat=34.0610&lon=-118.2278&z=16

 

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Iowa
  • 3,293 posts
Posted by Semper Vaporo on Sunday, June 28, 2020 9:56 PM

In my searching Google Earth for Roundhouses and turntables, I find that if there is a convenient Wye nearby, the RR's remove any remnent of a roundhouse and turntable, but if there is no Wye, at least the turntable is kept.

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy