I had thought of the Plimsoll Line as being one line--but it is a bit more complicated because the buoncy of the water depends upon several factors, all of which determine the density of the water.
Johnny
blue streak 1 Off topic. Since sea water density is different that the Seaway how much lower is a ship in ftesh water ?
Off topic. Since sea water density is different that the Seaway how much lower is a ship in ftesh water ?
The answer appears to be "it depends..." Actually there is a formula for it.
While not specific to depth, this chart helps explain it a bit.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
It's complicated by the fact that there is a zone of fresh/salt water mixing below Quebec that extends about 100 km into the St. Lawrance estuary, depending on river flow.
Quebec port is basically at the head of tide water and is 15 meters (just short of 50') deep. It's the only inland port that could serve the next generation of larger container ships. Montreal might be the bigger loser.
https://www.portquebec.ca/en/projects/a-propos-du-port/developpement/projets-davenir/agrandissement-secteur-beauport
ghCBNS Quebec City ices over from Jan through March but as others have said......there are ice breakers for year 'round shipping.
Quebec City ices over from Jan through March but as others have said......there are ice breakers for year 'round shipping.
And Montreal has a significant container port and is farther up-river than Quebec is.
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
BaltACD Ulrich I too wonder about the thinking behind establishing a container terminal in Quebec. What advantage would a Quebec terminal have over Halifax? I'm not sure. Probably its a little cheaper as containers move a greater distance inland on the water, thus reducing the more costly rail linehaul. Or maybe its to take some pressure off of Montreal or Halifax given projected growth over the next decades. Moving further inland increases transit time for the vessels involved - likely a day or more each way - vessels don't sail for free.
Ulrich I too wonder about the thinking behind establishing a container terminal in Quebec. What advantage would a Quebec terminal have over Halifax? I'm not sure. Probably its a little cheaper as containers move a greater distance inland on the water, thus reducing the more costly rail linehaul. Or maybe its to take some pressure off of Montreal or Halifax given projected growth over the next decades.
Moving further inland increases transit time for the vessels involved - likely a day or more each way - vessels don't sail for free.
I realize they don't sail for free.. just wondering if the cost of an additional day on the water is less than it would cost to move the additional distance via rail.
tree68 BaltACD Moving further inland increases transit time for the vessels involved - likely a day or more each way - vessels don't sail for free. A comparison of the ton-mile rates between the ship and rail would be necessary. Is it cheaper to ship a container by rail from Halifax to [name your destination] than to leave it on a ship for that portion then by rail to the same destination?
BaltACD Moving further inland increases transit time for the vessels involved - likely a day or more each way - vessels don't sail for free.
A comparison of the ton-mile rates between the ship and rail would be necessary. Is it cheaper to ship a container by rail from Halifax to [name your destination] than to leave it on a ship for that portion then by rail to the same destination?
For the company operating the ship - is it more profitable to navigate inland waterways with ocean going vessels to inland ports than to only service recognized ocean ports. How much more revenue does the operating company obtain versus the costs of operating to the inland ports.
The old saying - 'Just because you can doesn't mean you should'.
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tree68A comparison of the ton-mile rates between the ship and rail would be necessary. Is it cheaper to ship a container by rail from Halifax to [name your destination] than to leave it on a ship for that portion then by rail to the same destination?
And the type of freight and service may be different. Pure speed is often not as important as guaranteed window of delivery even if slower ... both distinct from rock bottom negotiated lowest price.
i suspect the answer here is 'both' -- some freight goes better via Halifax, and enough goes via Quebec to make opening a new facility 'worth doing'.
BaltACDMoving further inland increases transit time for the vessels involved - likely a day or more each way - vessels don't sail for free.
UlrichI too wonder about the thinking behind establishing a container terminal in Quebec. What advantage would a Quebec terminal have over Halifax? I'm not sure. Probably its a little cheaper as containers move a greater distance inland on the water, thus reducing the more costly rail linehaul. Or maybe its to take some pressure off of Montreal or Halifax given projected growth over the next decades.
I too wonder about the thinking behind establishing a container terminal in Quebec. What advantage would a Quebec terminal have over Halifax? I'm not sure. Probably its a little cheaper as containers move a greater distance inland on the water, thus reducing the more costly rail linehaul. Or maybe its to take some pressure off of Montreal or Halifax given projected growth over the next decades.
Gramp How much shipping time difference is there between going to Halifax vs. Quebec?
How much shipping time difference is there between going to Halifax vs. Quebec?
It's 800 miles from Halifax to Quebec. If a ship was coming from the UK (Southhampton for example).....it's 2500 miles to Halifax or 2900 miles to Quebec.
But Halifax's advantage is......it's right on the Great Circle route between Europe and the US Eastern Seaboard and the first port-of-call and a day earlier than New York for any container/cargo ship. That accounts for a lot of it's current tonnage.
Halifax is ice-free, deep and can handle any container ship.
See 'Trains' April 2020 page 40: Halifax 'Rupert of the East'
UlrichIce is nolonger a problem since the 1960s.. ice breakers ply the river
Well, there ya go!
Ice is nolonger a problem since the 1960s.. ice breakers ply the river, and the Port of Montreal has been open year round for quite some time. Ostensibly the ice breakers on the St. Lawrence contributed to a decline in trafffic on CP's "Short Line" from Saint John to Montreal as shipping companies preferred Montreal over Saint John (and having to deal with the Bay of Fundy tides).. eventually leading to CP selling the line to Iron Roads.. (of course CP bought back part of the line recently)..
SD70DudeWhat is the ice situation at Quebec?
From my historical reading as far as I know the St. Lawrence River freezes solid in the Quebec area from around October to April. If they're going to put a container port there I don't see how they're going to use it for six months out of the year unless they have a fleet of dedicated icebreakers.
It's the reason it was imperative for General Wolfe to take Quebec in September of 1759 before the freeze season came and the Royal Navy would be forced to withdraw and leave him without naval support.
Didn't Creel or someone else from CP recently say they were looking into buying back the Quebec Gatineau Railway?
What is the ice situation at Quebec?
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The new Laurentia container terminal in Quebec City is expected to open in a year or two and will rival Halifax in terms of capacity. Halifax is currently served via CN, and the Laurentia terminal will be served via CN as well.
But one has to wonder how much business will simply be diverted from Halifax to Quebec, leaving CN with a shorter linehaul on that business... i.e. Halifax to Chicago would presumably be more profitable than Quebec to Chicago.
CP (or anyone else for that matter) coud also get in on the action as the old Quebec Central line from Levis (across the river from Quebec) is still in place. This line could possibly provide a short cut to the US.. Levis to Sherbrooke, and from Sherbrooke east or west via CP or south via G&W.. Maybe the goverment of Quebec was smart not to tear up this line, although it likely would have to be rebuilt at this point as it hasn't seen a train since 2006. The containerport just may be the business the old QC line needs.. and perhaps some iron ore from Labrador too at some future date..
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