traisessive1Industries moving beside a mainline is the exact opposite of what class ones want. Class ones don't want trains stopping to serve an industry and clogging up the system while doing it. They don't want switcher jobs doing the same either. They want clear mainlines without any disruptions. Any customers they have, they want off to the side so they can run their mains. They want them beside branch lines and in terminal areas.
If your recall the era of 'Plant Rationalization' the railroads eliminated most of the lines that had no 'on line' traffic base as those lines did not generate sufficient 'revenue per mile' to suit their tastes at that time. So all the lines that remained after the Plant Rationalization era had a on line industry traffic base.
I guess the real goal, in your scenario, of PSR is for all the railroads to sell themselves for scrap value to enhance 'shareholder value' for the owning Hedge Funds so that nothing would have to be expended on employees, maintenance of plant and equipment.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Industries moving beside a mainline is the exact opposite of what class ones want. Class ones don't want trains stopping to serve an industry and clogging up the system while doing it. They don't want switcher jobs doing the same either.
They want clear mainlines without any disruptions. Any customers they have, they want off to the side so they can run their mains. They want them beside branch lines and in terminal areas.
10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ...
@SD70Dude
I will concede your point about the western shortlines, but Southern Ontario Railway, and Goderich Exeter make no sense. I have heard stories about how badly CN compares to Genessee and Wyoming for the customers on the line. I can't understand why they would have taken it back.
As for the the Quebec Railway Corperation, the results speak for themselves. CN almost abandoned the line between Bathurst and Miramichi and the Ottawa Central is on the chopping block despite being more than likely viable.
ttrraaffiicc SD70Dude As was noted, CN re-purchased most of Southern Ontario and Goderich-Exeter, in keeping with their tactics in other parts of the country over the past 15 years. Their tactic to purchase branch lines and secondary routes they sold off by the dozen in the 1990s, only to completely sh** the bed and chase off the remaining customers, leaving them in worse shape then what they bought them for. See Mackenzie Northern, Athabasca Northern, Quebec Railway Corperation family of shortlines, Kelowna Pacific etc. etc. Long story short, CN pulling the lease on GEXR was the worst possible thing that could have happened, and the slow decline of the Guelph Sub has likely commenced.
SD70Dude As was noted, CN re-purchased most of Southern Ontario and Goderich-Exeter, in keeping with their tactics in other parts of the country over the past 15 years.
Their tactic to purchase branch lines and secondary routes they sold off by the dozen in the 1990s, only to completely sh** the bed and chase off the remaining customers, leaving them in worse shape then what they bought them for. See Mackenzie Northern, Athabasca Northern, Quebec Railway Corperation family of shortlines, Kelowna Pacific etc. etc.
Long story short, CN pulling the lease on GEXR was the worst possible thing that could have happened, and the slow decline of the Guelph Sub has likely commenced.
I'm not familiar with what happened on the former QRC lines, but traffic has grown steady on the remaining branch lines in Alberta and B.C. since CN bought them back.
After the takeovers, the only sections of track that CN abandoned were Falher-Girouxville (10 miles, with no customers except seasonal producer grain car activity) and Kelowna-Lumby Jct. Kelowna Pacific had gone bankrupt by themselves, and mill closures in Kelowna meant the end of most freight on that section.
The re-purchase of Athabasca Northern saved that line from abandonment. Since then CN has sunks hundreds of millions of $$$ into track rehab, and much of the line from Edmonton to Lynton (just south of Fort McMurray) is 132 lb welded rail. The same track upgrades are continuing on the former Mackenzie Northern lines, and I'm told that heavy welded rail is being laid the summer on the south end of the old Great Slave Railway, to accommodate unit grain trains from a new terminal in High Level, AB.
The line to Cold Lake, AB was abandoned and removed when RailAmerica owned it. Ditto for Grimshaw-Hines Creek, west of Peace River, AB.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Some of the Lines mentioned
378_383 departing Putnam for St.Thomas. 1/14/2020
All three "covered wagons" (1400_6508_1401) are on their way back to Ingersoll after a run down to Putnam. 1/18/2015 James Adeney
1400_1594 southbound with loads for Messenger plus cars for Cayuga line.
CPR track gang at work. Likely the last work done by CPR anywhere on St. Thomas Sub.
9/27/2007
Essex Terminal
Windsor, ON
108_104 switching multis at Motipark an automobile facility for FCA (Fiat Chrysler) Windsor Assembly Plant which produces Dodge Grand Caravans and Chrysler Pacificas. It has parking for 6000 vehicles. Opened this week. Windsor, ON 2/15/2019 Mike Molnar
Note: This extensive property was formerly the GM Transmission Plant.
Genesee & Wyoming Canada Inc.
Huron Central
Long-term lease July 29, 1997 former CPR Webbwood Sub. Sudbury to Sault Ste. Marie, ON 179 miles. Also, spur (former Little Current Sub.) from McKerrow to Espanola M.1.8 and to M.2.95.
RLHH 3403 painted for Southern Ontario.
RLHH 3403 acq. 2014 (ex FURX 3003 nee CP 5516) GMD A2149 9/1966
Two views, coming and going. Soo 6/26/2019
RLK 3410 (Ottawa Valley) acq. 2014 (ex FURX 3046, nee SOO 754 SD40) EMD 37429 5/1971
HCRY 204 acq. 1997 (ex B&P 204 nee B&O 6459) GP9 EMD 22203 8/1956 Sault Ste. Marie June 7, 2002 Bob Heathorn
Smoky scene at Guelph Junction with eastbound time table train hauled by P2 5356. Next to the station is G1 class light engine off Orrs Lake assist running as Extra 2233 East. April 22, 1954 Bob Shaw Collection
Depends on what you are manufacturing and how you build the supply chain... modal mix is critical and remember, in manufacturing it is important to keep labor busy while maintaining efficiency. Production runs should go as long as they can on a particular product line, which may mean making a month's worth of orders or even more. In fact, you could be making orders not set to deliver for 2 or 3 months as the needs of operations and that of sales/the customer never seem to mesh. I've put a lot of product in railcars knowing that I don't need it for 2 months, and having it hang around a yard is fine by me, so I don't have to pay to keep it on someone's floor in a warehouse, or take up my own floor space for other product.
Why is Ontario Southland out as the operator of the Guelph Junction Railway? GJR has seen strong growth over the past couple of decades, particularly 2017 through 2019. Did Ontario Southland not wish to renew? Surprisingly ( to me anyway) CP has expressed no interest in taking over operations in June. I'm guessing this will be the end of the line for vintage MLW power in Guelph.
SD70DudeOntario Southland, Trillium (Welland-area operation), and Essex Terminal are all doing well still.
Ontario Southland is a fan favourite, so to speak ill of them may not be popular around these parts, but I suspect that they aren't doing well.
The first reason is that they are losing the contract to run the Guelph Junction Railway, which was their most profitable and reliable source of traffic.
They also have WAY too many locomotives for what they need, and this whole Cayuga thing has cost them 5 customers, and that is all because one bridge is out of service in Tillsonburg, forcing them to take the long way around St. Thomas. The difference is that going throuth Tillsonburg only requires you to cross one bridge, whereas the Cayuga sub takes three bridges. In addition, going to Tillsonburg South through St. Thomas takes more route miles and hours of service, so the idea of leasing the Cayuga sub rather than just repairing the bridge was questionable at best, and in the long term has cost them dearly. Perhaps the money used to buy pretty f units and other extravagant vintage locos could have been better used investing in track and infrastructure maintenance to fulfill the obligations they had to their customers. It seems that they are more concerned with getting the railfans to take pictures of their fancy locomotives than actually running a functioning railroad.
Trillium lost a major customer last year, Chemtrade in Thorold. Aside from that, they are doing okay, not great, but not bad.
Essex Terminal seems to doing fine.
SD70DudeAs was noted, CN re-purchased most of Southern Ontario and Goderich-Exeter, in keeping with their tactics in other parts of the country over the past 15 years.
Ontario Southland, Trillium (Welland-area operation), and Essex Terminal are all doing well still.
As was noted, CN re-purchased most of Southern Ontario and Goderich-Exeter, in keeping with their tactics in other parts of the country over the past 15 years.
The sky is not falling, not yet at least.
Lithonia OperatorLarry, I don't understand your last sentence there. What do you mean by "cut over?"
Assuming, say, two days for a truck shipment from point A to point B, and two weeks for the same shipment by rail, if I cut over from truck to rail in one swell foop, the receiving end won't see product for about two weeks.
There could be ways to lessen the blow, like blended shipping until the new flow is established.
Those who routinely ship by rail account for this - it's been said many times that the shippers and receivers who depend on regular deliveries don't care how long it takes for the product to make the trip (within reason), as long as it shows up consistently, on a regular basis.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68 Ulrich Lots can be done to bring shippers back to rail.. Railroads need to work on their "throughput" as well. Taking two weeks to move something that trucks can move in a day or two isn't going to interest shippers unless they are shipping something that is not time constrained in any way. Even consistent shipping doesn't do a lot of good if a fair portion of the product is sitting in railcars, not in the factories or destination warehouses. Think about it - if I'm producing something that I can ship in carload lots, I could have two weeks worth of output "enroute." The day I cut over, I'm two weeks behind in my shipments...
Ulrich Lots can be done to bring shippers back to rail..
Railroads need to work on their "throughput" as well. Taking two weeks to move something that trucks can move in a day or two isn't going to interest shippers unless they are shipping something that is not time constrained in any way.
Even consistent shipping doesn't do a lot of good if a fair portion of the product is sitting in railcars, not in the factories or destination warehouses. Think about it - if I'm producing something that I can ship in carload lots, I could have two weeks worth of output "enroute." The day I cut over, I'm two weeks behind in my shipments...
Larry, I don't understand your last sentence there. What do you mean by "cut over?"
UlrichLots can be done to bring shippers back to rail..
CX500- I always assumed there was a rail line from Meaford to Owen Sound- the bike path does look like a former track.
Lots can be done to bring shippers back to rail.. Incentivize shippers to relocate along rail lines so that they may be directly served by rail..that would make the shorter hauls more feasible by reducing or eliminating the shorthaul dray cost (which is often an inflated flat rate minumum of $500 to $750.00)
Go after the smaller retail accounts.. those shippers who currently ship only one to ten truckloads a month.. that's the vast majority of shippers.. Get enough of those together and you wind up with a diversified customer base and a heck of alot of domestic freight. Of course easier said than done.. I know. but it can be done.. hire people to knock on doors and make the calls.
The situation applies elsewhere, too. Shortlines with a decent customer base and good service are continuing to operate while any number with no sizable traffic source were merely postponing the day of reckoning when the Class I spun off the line.
54light15 The line to Collingwood is still there but is rusty and overgrown once it's past Camp Borden- I believe the Camp is still rail served to move tanks and such. The roadbed is now a bike path from Colliingwood to Owen Sound.
The line to Collingwood is still there but is rusty and overgrown once it's past Camp Borden- I believe the Camp is still rail served to move tanks and such. The roadbed is now a bike path from Colliingwood to Owen Sound.
Some of them are still plugging along. The Guelph Junction Railway is a good example.. operating over a distance of about 18 km, between Guelph and the CP connection at Guelph Junction. It is owned by the City of Guelph and operated by Ontario Southland. Typically trains run daily, and consist of two MLW engines and 14 cars.
The G &W (Goderich & Exeter Railway) is another example of what appears to be a well run shortline. In November 2018 CN repurchased the portion from Georgetown to Stratford, perhaps a testament to G & W's fine stewardship of that line over the previous decade. G&W continues to operate the line from Stratford to Goderich.
Another fine example, CN's Fergus Spur which extends from "that other" Guelph Junction (which is actually in Guelph) to picturesque Hespeler, which is roughly 12 km to the southwest. Trains are typically very short..five to 15 cars.. and motive power is interesting.. GMD1s..leased GP38-2s..GP40-2Ws and the occasional GP35 and GP9. Also interesting..lots of oversize loads due to customer Babcock &Wilcox..this perhaps explains why the line has survived: these oversized loads likely pay very well and aren't as easily handled by truck.
CP's line in the Kawarthas is another "shortline" that has never left the class 1 fold, but for all intents and purposes its operated like a shortline, providing customized service to shippers in and around the Peterborough area..
True enough..shortline operations have seen a decline in Ontario over the past couple of decades. Some (like Huron Central) simply lack the customers and volumes to make them viable, and their failure reaffirms why they were sold off in the first place...no matter how efficient you are operationally, you won't make if you don't have a sufficient customer base to pay for it. Nonetheless, as noted above, some have soldiered on and appear to be surviving if not prospering.
Upon recent reflection, I have come to a disturbing realization. Short line railroading in Ontario has been a total failure. Of the many shortlines that called once Ontario home, few remain, and the ones that do are greatly diminished. Over the past 20 years, many shortlines have gone under, taking with them a large portion of Ontario's rail network. Others are in major financial trouble. Of Ontario's shortlines, the list that have ended operation or continue in a greatly diminished state include (diminished denoted by *, under threat denoted by **, ended operation ***): Ottawa Valley Railway*, Ottawa Central***, Goderich Exeter*, Southern Ontario Railway*, Trillium Railway*, Orangeville Brampton Railway**, Barrie Collingwood Railway*(and**), Huron Central** and as of April 2020, Ontario Southland Railway*(and**). Every shortline that has operated in Ontario in the last 20 years made this list. There isn't a shortline in Ontario that has gone without experiencing some major difficulty, whether financial or otherwise. Success stories are rare and fleeting. It is difficult to say that shortline railroading in Ontario has been anything other than a failure. It is unfortunate, as it has worked so well elsewhere, just not here.
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