flags

[Anonymous]

What is a blue flag violation? Why were white flagged locos considered extras?
What flags are used or not, to denote class,express ,expedited,Etc.?

[Anonymous]

Blue flags (Blue Light by Night) are used to protect Carmen who are working on equpiment.
If a running trades employee comes across a blue flag, then they are not allowed to move any equipment past that blue flag unless a worker of the same authority who placed the blue flag comes and takes it down.

I don't know why they used white flags for extras, but that's what they meant.
The practice was used in Canada longer than in the states, generally now 100% of trains run as extra's, so it is no longer practicle to have every train running with a white flag, so they all run without them now.

An extra was a train that was not listed in the timetable as a regularly scheduled train, and would generally have to yield to all other traffic.

....as far as I know flags weren't used to denote class or express (I may be wrong) because the train would be listed in the timetable as being one or another, only extras needed the flags because they weren't listed in the timetable.

[tree68]

Then there are the green flags for additional sections of a train. Can't recall what I've read about which section(s) ran what.

The industrial switcher at the local co-gen plant runs red flags.

[Anonymous]

Mac, when i was younger and uninformed i thought white flagged meant expedited,in other words the fastest and clear tracked over all.Dumb huh? Like the red ball express.
Thanks tho.

[Anonymous]

http://home.covad.net/~scicoatnsew/rb1904b.htm

Check out rules 20 and 21....

I'm not too sure what they mean by the green flag/light.

[espeefoamer]

When did the railroads quit using flags/lights?
Once in the last half of the 1970s, I was on an SP commute in San Francisco,and saw a WP SW1500 pulling a few freight cars. The engine was flying white flags.

[Anonymous]

RRs stopped using the flags when train orders went the way of the fireman.

Not sure about the states, but here in Canada CP Rail flew white flags right into the late 80s on some subdivisions.

[dehusman]

The blue flag is a different signal than the other flags which are call classification lights or signals.

A blue light or flag denotes men working on, under or around the equipment or track displaying the blue flags.

There were 3 different classifications:
No signals : a regular train, that is one that had a schedule listed in the schedules portion of the employee timetable.
Green signals: a section is following, an additional regular train on the same schedule is following the train displaying green signals.
white signals: an extra train, not having a schedule listed on the timetable.

Dave H.

[csxchris]

blue flag protection generally constitutes, when used, in conjunction with a section of track that rail equipment is on to be repaired - switches allowing access to such track must be lined and locked against movement to that track. Depending on where the equipment is, in addition to switches being lined and locked, derails must be placed 150 ft from the ends of the equipment, if its in a engine/car repair facility where the speed is less than 5mph then the derails only have to be at 50 ft, and nothing can be placed to obstruct the view of the blue flags/lights. Also, a blue tag must be placed in view of the operating controls of each contollable locomotive (if it's a consist) to prevent accidental operation. Blue flag protection is required whenever work to be performed requires a workman to "break the plane" of the equipment (open doors, go under, in between. A Blue Flag violation is when a workman is caught "breaking the plane" without FULL blue flag protection, a blue flag violation can also be if a crew accidentally runs over a derail that is providing FULL Blue Flag protection. Usually such violation will reward those caught with time on the street. Some railroads mandate a minimum thirty days with a firing if a subsequent instance occurs again within three years. The FRA and state DOT can invoke personal fines with premiums for willful acts.
T&E personel don't generally use blue flag protection as they have 3 step protection.

[edblysard]

GCOR rule 5.13

5.13 Blue Signal Protection of Workmen
This rule outlines the requirements for protecting railroad workmen who are inspecting, testing, repairing, and servicing rolling equipment. In particular, because these tasks require the workmen to work on, under, or between rolling equipment, workmen are exposed to potential injury from moving equipment.

Blue Signal Protection of Workmen
As used in this rule, the following definitions apply:
Workmen. Railroad employees assigned to inspect, test, repair, or service railroad rolling equipment or components, including brake systems. Train and yard crews are excluded, except when they perform the above work on rolling equipment not part of the train or yard movement they are handling or will handle.


"Servicing" does not include supplying cabooses, engines, or passenger cars with items such as ice, drinking water, tools, sanitary supplies, stationery, or flagging equipment.
"Testing" does not include an employee making visual observations while on or alongside a caboose, engine, or passenger car. Also, testing does not include repositioning the activation switch or covering the photo-electric cell of the marker when the rear of the train is on the main track. The employee inspecting the marker must contact the employee controlling the engine to confirm that the train will remain secure against movement until the inspection is complete.
Group of Workmen. Two or more workmen of the same or different crafts who work as a unit under a common authority and communicate with each other while working.
Rolling Equipment. Engines, cars, and one or more engines coupled to one or more cars.

Blue Signal. During the day, a clearly distinguishable blue flag or light, and at night, a blue light. The blue light may be steady or flashing.

The blue signal does not need to be lighted when it is attached to the operating controls of an engine and the inside of the engine cab area is lighted enough to make the blue signal clearly distinguishable.

Effective Locking Device. When used in relation to a manually operated switch or a derail, a lock that can be locked or unlocked only by the craft or group of workmen applying the lock.

Car Shop Repair Area. One or more tracks within an area where rolling equipment testing, servicing, repairing, inspecting, or rebuilding is controlled exclusively by mechanical department personnel.

Engine Servicing Area. One or more tracks within an area where engine testing, servicing, repairing, inspecting, or rebuilding is controlled exclusively by mechanical department personnel.

Switch Providing Direct Access. A switch that if used by rolling equipment could permit the rolling equipment to couple to the equipment being protected.

A. What a Blue Signal Signifies

A blue signal signifies that workmen are on, under, or between rolling equipment and requires that:


Rolling equipment must not be coupled to or moved, except as provided in "Movement in Engine Servicing Area" and 'Movement in Car Shop Repair Area" of this rule.
Rolling equipment must not pass a blue signal on a track protected by the signal.
Other rolling equipment must not be placed on the same track so as to block or reduce the view of the blue signal.
a. However, rolling equipment may be placed on the same track when it is placed on designated engine servicing area tracks or car shop repair area tracks, or when a derail divides a track into separate working areas.
Rolling equipment must not enter a track when a blue signal is displayed at the entrance to the track.
Blue signals or remote control blue signals must be displayed for each craft or group of workmen who will work on, under, or between rolling equipment.
Protection Removed. Blue signals may be removed only by the craft or group who placed them. Remote control display may be discontinued when directed by the craft or group that requested the protection. When blue signal protection has been removed from one entrance of a double-ended track or from either end of rolling equipment on a main track, that track is no longer under blue signal protection.

B. How to Provide Protection

When workmen are on, under, or between rolling equipment and exposed to potential injury, protection must be provided as follows:

On a Main Track. A blue signal must be displayed at each end of the rolling equipment.

On Other than a Main Track. One of these three methods of protection or a combination of these methods must be provided:

Each manually operated switch that provides direct access must be lined against movement onto the track and secured by an effective locking device. A blue signal must be placed at or near each such switch. In addition, any facing point crossover switch must be lined against movement and secured by an effective locking device.



2. A derail capable of restricting access to the track where work will occur must be locked in derailing position with an effective locking device and:

a. Positioned at least 150 feet from the rolling equipment to be protected.
or
b. Positioned at least 50 feet from the end of rolling equipment on a designated engine servicing track or car shop repair track where speed is limited to not more than 5 MPH.
A blue signal must be displayed at each derail.


3. Where remote control switches provide direct access, the employee in charge of the workmen must tell the switch operator what work will be done. The switch operator must then:

a. Inform the employee in charge of the workmen that the switches have been lined against movement onto the track and devices controlling the switches have been secured.

b. Not remove the locking devices unless the employee in charge of the workmen says it is safe to do so.
c. Maintain for 15 days a written record of each notification that includes:
Name and craft of the employee in charge of the workmen requesting protection
Identification of track involved.
Date and time the employee in charge of workmen is notified that protection was provided
Date, time, name, and craft of the employee in charge of workmen who authorized removal of the protection

C. Blue Signal Readily Visible to Engineer
In addition to providing protection as required in 'On a Main Track" and "On Other than a Main Track," when workmen are on, under, or between an engine or rolling equipment coupled to an engine:


A blue signal must be attached to the controlling engine.
A blue signal must be visible to the engineer or employee controlling the engine.
The engine must not be moved.

D. Protection for Workmen Inspecting Markers
Blue signal protection must be provided for workmen when they are:


Replacing, repositioning, or repairing a marker, and the rear of the train is on any track.
or
Inspecting a marker by repositioning the activation switch or covering the photo-electric cell, and the rear of the train is on other than a main track.
E. Protection for Emergency Repair Work
If a blue signal is not available for employees performing emergency repairs on, under, or between an engine or rolling equipment coupled to an engine, the employee controlling the engine must be notified and appropriate measures taken to provide protection for the employees.

F. Movement in Engine Servicing Area An engine must not enter a designated engine servicing area until the blue signal protection is removed from the entrance. The engine must stop short of coupling to another engine.

An engine must not leave a designated engine servicing area unless the blue signal is removed from the engine and the track in the direction of movement.

Blue signal protection removed to let engines enter or leave the engine servicing area must be restored immediately after the engine enters or clears the area.

An engine protected by blue signals may be moved on a designated engine servicing area track when:


An authorized employee operates the engine under the direction of the employee in charge of workmen.
The blue signal has been removed from the controlling engine to be repositioned.
Workmen have been warned of the movement.
G. Movement in Car Shop Repair Area When rolling equipment on car shop repair tracks is protected by blue signals, a car mover may reposition the equipment if:

Workmen have been warned of the movement.
An authorized employee operates the car mover under the direction of the employee in charge of workmen.

Kinda makes sense, huh...
Ed

[edblysard]

Oh, forgot..
White flags displayed on the leading locomotive...extra, not listed in timetable.
Green flags displayed on leading locomotive...second section and subsequent sections...
Red Flag displayed on leading locomotive...end section or last section of a multi part train.

for the most part, flagging the lead locomotive no longer is used...almost all railroads run all their trains as "extras" on no fixed schedule...

Red flag on the rear car, see GCOR as follows.

5.10.1 Highly Visible Markers
Display a highly visible marker at the rear of every train as follows:

From 1 hour before sunset to 1 hour after sunrise.
When weather conditions restrict visibility to less than 1/2 mile.

A marker equipped with a functioning photo-electric cell will automatically illuminate at the appropriate time.
When an engine is operating without cars or is at the rear of the train, the trailing headlight illuminated on dim may be used as a marker. Inspection of Marker

When a highly visible marker is required, a qualified employee must inspect it at the initial terminal and at each crew change point. To determine if the marker is functioning properly, the employee will inspect it by observation or by telemetry display in the cab of the engine. The engineer must be informed of the results of the inspection.


5.10.2 Alternative Markers
Display a reflector, red flag, or light fixture at the rear of the train as the marker when any of the following conditions exists:

A highly visible marker is not required.
A defective car must be placed at the rear for movement to a repair point.
The rear portion of the train is disabled and cannot be moved, and a highly visible marker cannot be displayed on the rear of the portion to be moved.
or
The highly visible marker becomes inoperative enroute. If this occurs, notify the train dispatcher and move the train to the next forward location where the highly visible marker can be repaired or replaced.


Ed

[dehusman]

Ed said:
Oh, forgot..
White flags displayed on the leading locomotive...extra, not listed in timetable.
Green flags displayed on leading locomotive...second section and subsequent sections...
Red Flag displayed on leading locomotive...end section or last section of a multi part train.
====================
He is correct on the white flags/lights for an extra

The green signals mean there is a section following. So if there are three sections, the first and second will display green signals, but NOT the third. The last section displays NO signals.

The red signals are technically "markers" and means that engine is the rear of a train. So if the engine has red signals on the front that means its the rear of a train and its backing up. Red signals/markers have nothing to do with sections.

Dave H.

[Anonymous]

Without pulling out my pre-1967 SP Book of Rules and reciting the exact set of rules, here's the easy explanation re: "Green Signals":

Colored signals when carried by the lead road engine (and sometimes the lead helper depending upon the particular railroad's operating rules) were used to provide clear visual indications of train status such as:

WHITE - "Extra Train Not on Timetable Schedule and Operated Subject to Clearance(s)/Train Order(s)"; and,
GREEN- "Additional Train(s) Following this Train with Equal Time Table /Rules Authority"

These signals were discernible/understandable by railroad employees (e.g., other trains, trackworkers, station agents, etc.) without the need to have copies of either the actual Time Table or Train Order(s) in hand that actually indicated how many Sections, or what Extras etc. were being run. Thus, colored signals acted as safety devices in addition to the Book of Rules, Time Table and Train Orders.

Green signals (flags (day time) and lights (night time)) when displayed, denoted an additional train Section(s) following. In addition and for railroads using Train Indicator boards mounted on the lead road engine (e.g., Southern Pacific prior to 1967) would display the Section # - Train # displayed on the Train Indicators (e.g., "1-99" - denotied"1st Section of Train 99 (i.e., Coast Daylight, WB) with Section(s) Following"). "Equal Time Table Authority" means that all other trains meeting (regardless of direction) and/or track speeders and or track workers, etc., must observe the exact same timetable/train order/rules for each and every Section(s) of the met train.

As an example, if Train X4106E (Extra Train 4106 - East Bound - note that Extra Train was the lowest class and that East Bound was the inferior direction of travel on the SP) was scheduled to meet Train 51 (1st class passenger train running in superior direction (west)), running in three (3) Sections) at Mojave and assuming that Train 51 was properly displaying green signals and Indicators, then Train 4106E MUST wait at Mojave until ALL three Sections of Train 51 have passed. On the SP (and other roads which used Train Indicator boards), the lead road engine on the first Section would display green signals together with "1-51", Second Section would display green signals together with "2-51". The third (last) Section would display "3-51" without displaying any color signals, thereby informing met trains, et al, that "3-51" was the last Section of Train 51.

Note that some railroads had the last section display red signals on the lead road engine, thus alerting met trains, et al, that NO Section(s) were following.

Note that many railroads did not use Train Indicator boards.

Hope this helps.

[Anonymous]

There was also a whistle signal, I believe it was a long and 2 short,"To call attention to train engine and other employees to signals indicating a section following."

Mitch

[nobullchitbids]

FYI: Blue flags to protect employees have been covered in detail; but, I also saw them used in industrial areas to protect equipment as well. A typical employment would be to prevent movement of a tank car which was being unloaded -- the blue flag prevents the car from being moved under circumstances where movement could rupture a line or otherwise cause a serious chemical leak.