With all due respect to our good member tree68/ Larry here and his dedicated colleagues in the fire service, this thread may be of interest to some.
This first photo showed up on the news feed of my phone the other day. The article below explains how it was staged for comic effect - safely, too.
https://www.businessinsider.com/heres-how-this-fake-photo-went-viral-and-tricked-the-internet-2014-5
Another joke one - see the comments below:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Firefighting/comments/7ke897/xpost_from_rpics_thats_not_how_trains_work/
The there's this 1:04 video of one gone wrong, captioned as "Train VS Fire Hose in Maine - Must see for All Fire Departments". The TV anchor's narration explains it pretty well. Some of the comments are funny, too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0O7DP3i0ao&feature=youtu.be
Here's another video of a BNSF fire train, captioned as "BNSF Fire Train (Very Rare)". The good part of the 3:04 video is from 0:10 to about 2:34 - what's after that is pretty unusual - I have my doubts about it's safety:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut9JGMjPteU
I love the first comment: "This is like every kid's different dream jobs rolled into one."
Several from a fire in Weymouth, Mass.:
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/fire-hose-runs-under-the-tracks-of-the-mbta-commuter-rail-news-photo/847395790
This one has it at a different angle, and with a 0:24 video of the Keolis track guys digging out the 'crib' between the ties for the hose to go into:
https://www.firefighternation.com/2017/09/14/fire-hose-under-the-train-tracks/#gref
3rd photo from the top:
https://959watd.com/blog/2017/09/weymouth-early-morning-fire-damages-condo-building/
How they used to do it back in trolley car days:
https://wongm.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/emergency-tramway-hose-bridge.jpg
One in action - go slow or it could be like a roller-coaster ride:
https://tdu.to/photos.aspx?search=Richmond_car_hose_bridge.jpg
Short explanation: https://tdu.to/32024.msg
Then there are the photos of windows of cars parked in front of a fire hydrant broken out so the hose could go through them . . .
- PDN.
Unwittingly cut a fire hose outside Richmond CA with a work train in 1989.. Nobody on the railroad side had been alerted to the local FD attacking a brush fire just off the R/W. Took 'em a while to get the hydrant turned off. Ironically, the work train was shuttling water cars.
mudchickenUnwittingly cut a fire hose outside Richmond CA with a work train in 1989.. Nobody on the railroad side had been alerted to the local FD attacking a brush fire just off the R/W. Took 'em a while to get the hydrant turned off. Ironically, the work train was shuttling water cars.
When I was a kid we lived in Pittsburgh for several years. Recall the lead in to one of the TV stations evening news show was a film clip of a B&O passenger train running along 'the river' at speed and slicing through five or six fire hoses, releasing great cascades of water. This was in the early 50's and such things as radios on the B&O did not exist.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Even firefighters get caught by the Dutch set-up...
I did a presentation a few years ago to the county firefighters association. I emphasized notifying the railroad of any fire operations near the tracks, nevermind running a hose over the rails. Fortunately, there's only two railroads, and one is a shortline that might run once a week... I would not be shy about checking with dispatch to see if the RR had been notified if I was aware of an incident on or near the tracks.
I also pointed out the need for lookouts.
The fact that we don't see a lot of traffic on the line through the county (CSX, soon to be CN - see the news wire) means there could be those who think the tracks are basically inactive.
The hose through the car windows shots (there are more) are legendary, almost to the point that a firefighter would welcome the opportunity...
Fire trains are more common that some may think - theyjust sit in the back of the yard, waiting for the occasional call to action. They probably go out less often than the rotary snowplows.
There were a number of them on the NYC Adirondack Division, including one based at William Seward Webb's private station. Forest fires were such a problem that the only oil burning steamers on the Central were those that ran in the Adirondacks, account a state law banning coal burners.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Paul_D_North_JrThen there are the photos of windows of cars parked in front of a fire hydrant broken out so the hose could go through them . . .
Backdraft, 1991.
The firefighters in Weymouth have it right.
The SP had at least one fire train at Donner; there was a picture of it in Trains back in the fifties.
Johnny
This is the proper way to deal with fire hoses and streetcars:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPySsj_-Z4g
In the video from Maine, the engine seems to snag the hose, not cut it.
What do you figure it got caught on? The hose was too low to be grabbed by anything in the pilot area. Could the wheels have pushed the hose along, like a crosstie gets pushed along for ballast spreading? That seems extremely unlikely to me, at that speed.
But what did happen?
Yep, it helps to call the right railroad. When in doubt, live a little and call two.
Dangling air hose?
As was said in "The Way It Was" by F. H. Howard in Trains in the mid-1970's (I think):
"The hose was in 3 pieces, the middle one exactly 4' 8-1/2" long . . . "
-
Lithonia Operatorn the video from Maine, the engine seems to snag the hose, not cut it. What do you figure it got caught on? The hose was too low to be grabbed by anything in the pilot area. Could the wheels have pushed the hose along, like a crosstie gets pushed along for ballast spreading? That seems extremely unlikely to me, at that speed.
That's either 4" or 5" large diameter hose (not always easy to spot without some sort of reference). The minimum clearance above the rail for a pilot, snowplow, etc, is 3".
Lithonia OperatorIn the video from Maine, the engine seems to snag the hose, not cut it. What do you figure it got caught on? The hose was too low to be grabbed by anything in the pilot area. Could the wheels have pushed the hose along, like a crosstie gets pushed along for ballast spreading? That seems extremely unlikely to me, at that speed. But what did happen?
I was thinking that it might have been the "watermelon seed effect", the way you shoot a watermelon seed across the room by squeezing it at one end, similar to what you mentioned about the crosstie. The smooth steel of the rail and the wheels might have squirted it forward. But after looking at the clip with a lot of start-stop, it looked like the first set of wheels rolled over the hose and the second set pushed it forward. Also, it looked like the hose remained intact, which means the first set of wheels rolled over it without cutting it. It's not clear enough to tell for sure. Maybe those hoses are a lot tougher than I thought. In other words, I dunno.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
In approximately the same time frame ( almost 10 years past- 04/2010) This one incident was documented in a Thread in a TRAINS Forum.
See incident linked @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlUVQb1lsrU
This little incident cost a Detroit area FD probably in the neighborhood of $250 K+ for their aerial truck ! No idea what the damage to AMTRK was?
Paul of CovingtonMaybe those hoses are a lot tougher than I thought. In other words, I dunno.
One of the vendors used to demonstrate a section of their LDH with several holes poked in it. Sprayed all over the place, but did not fail.
tree68 Paul of Covington Maybe those hoses are a lot tougher than I thought. In other words, I dunno. One of the vendors used to demonstrate a section of their LDH with several holes poked in it. Sprayed all over the place, but did not fail.
Paul of Covington Maybe those hoses are a lot tougher than I thought. In other words, I dunno.
Need to see how it survives a resonable train running over it.
BaltACDNeed to see how it survives a resonable train running over it.
I do believe it's been found that the LDH doesn't like catalytic converters very well... Why someone thinks that can drive their Rolls Kanardly over the top of it simply amazes me.
I suspect that, locomotive pilots not withstanding, the hose might survive a car or two rolling over it. It's plastic with reinforcement molded in. If there is a sheering force involved, of course, it would cut it.
tree68 BaltACD Need to see how it survives a resonable train running over it. I do believe it's been found that the LDH doesn't like catalytic converters very well... Why someone thinks that can drive their Rolls Kanardly over the top of it simply amazes me. I suspect that, locomotive pilots not withstanding, the hose might survive a car or two rolling over it. It's plastic with reinforcement molded in. If there is a sheering force involved, of course, it would cut it.
BaltACD Need to see how it survives a resonable train running over it.
Tend to believe that the flange/rail interface creates a shearing force.
samfp1943samfp1943 wrote the following post yesterday: In approximately the same time frame ( almost 10 years past- 04/2010) This one incident was documented in a Thread in a TRAINS Forum. See incident linked @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlUVQb1lsrU This little incident cost a Detroit area FD probably in the neighborhood of $250 K+ for their aerial truck ! Crying No idea what the damage to AMTRK was?
Assuming it was totaled, even 10 years ago a new FD aerial or tower was $1M to $1.4M depending upon whether it was a basic model or a more equiped model and also whether it was an individual purchase vs. part of a fleet purchase.
alphasAssuming it was totaled, even 10 years ago a new FD aerial or tower was $1M to $1.4M depending upon whether it was a basic model or a more equiped model and also whether it was an individual purchase vs. part of a fleet purchase.
As I recall, it was a rear-mount. It was totalled. News stories gave the value of the truck as $600K, but the million dollar figure isn't far off the mark for a replacement.
Ironically, it was Truck 13...
Well your hi-rail truck should make it over the hose ?
If I had to get by there for some compelling reason - only access to a derailment or injury, for example - I'd raise the flanged wheels - each axle separately in this instance, because the crossing surface is also beyond - while going over the hump.
On 'open track' or with less crossing beyond, wouldn't try it - too much risk of derailing while the flanged wheels are up in the air (whether intentionally raised in advance, or from going over the hump).
In any event, safer and better to find another place to 'put on'.
Paul_D_North_JrIf I had to get by there for some compelling reason - only access to a derailment or injury, for example - I'd raise the flanged wheels - each axle separately in this instance, because the crossing surface is also beyond - while going over the hump.
It might be simpler than that.
Remember that the tires are also 'guiding' (or can be with variable inflation pressure a la Schneider) so the flanges can be raised and the vehicle moved without derailing at low speed.
So you could reasonably 'hop' the leading flanged set over the hose, then lower it, drive the vehicle over the hose itself, then hop the trailing flange set. A little more time and attention, but much less tinker.
I do still think that digging out a crib transversely is a better approach to getting a hose across an active line ...
OvermodI do still think that digging out a crib transversely is a better approach to getting a hose across an active line ...
True, but sometimes, when there's fire blowing out every window, you might tend to think "we'll deal with that later..."
Overmod - Without seeing it done, I think we're describing the same procedure.
I was a Port Chester N. Y. volunteer fireman when a fire erupted in a large factory that was a "steel in / steel out via rail" type of manufacuring and it was necessary to implace hose=lines under the New Haven's 4-track rail-line.
Just call the number on the ENS sign ....soo much more effective. Then see the DOT number on the sign do its thing for pinpointing the site.
Disappointing that so many do not understand the value of that little blue sign in their cloistered existence.
Paul_D_North_JrOvermod - Without seeing it done, I think we're describing the same procedure.
Running rubber tires across it won't tend to cut or even displace it against something like a raised burr at the gauge corner that might cause trouble. Hence the exaggerated physical separation of each flanged wheel, in sequence, so that no matter what that flange won't come down and cause a modern Operation Moist Mop.
Naturally, if the crib can be opened enough to pass the hose through, and the subsequent inflation doesn't jack the track, you would have less trouble passing traffic (both truck and train) through, including ad hoc equipment on Brandt units (as in the cement mixer in the California tumbles into the sea thread). This makes me wonder on Euclid's behalf whether special troughs between ties could be installed, ready to be easily swept out to fit a firehose at future need...
OvermodThis makes me wonder on Euclid's behalf whether special troughs between ties could be installed, ready to be easily swept out to fit a firehose at future need...
Overmod This makes me wonder on Euclid's behalf whether special troughs between ties could be installed, ready to be easily swept out to fit a firehose at future need...
Given the number of times that I can recall the need to lay hose across tracks in my area, it would be a waste of time. As MC points out, a simple phone call will stop the trains, at least for a while.
And I'd be tempted to look for nearby culverts before I'd go to the trouble of digging out between ties...
tree68 Overmod I do still think that digging out a crib transversely is a better approach to getting a hose across an active line ... True, but sometimes, when there's fire blowing out every window, you might tend to think "we'll deal with that later..."
Overmod I do still think that digging out a crib transversely is a better approach to getting a hose across an active line ...
Expediency can drive things to a bad ending without the proper protections. Laying hose across the rails of a active railroad without notifying the owner and getting the rail traffic stopped ensures a bad outcome when a train slices the hose in three.
I had a fire chief in the suburban area around Pittsburgh tell me some years ago that piping with fire hose fittings on each end was permanently placed underneath the tracks in several key industrail locations in his area. Apparently, the hydrants on the other side of the tracks were on a different system with very low GPM capacity, so this enabled the firefighters to use a very high GPM system.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.