WASHINGTON — Union Pacific says federal regulators should not allow a firm controlled by New York City real estate magnates to poach its long-dormant route over Tennessee Pass using a legal maneuver designed to preserve rail service. UP will ...
https://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2020/03/03-union-pacific-opposes-firms-plan-to-revive-tennessee-pass-route
Brian Schmidt, Editor, Classic Trains magazine
What is the quality of the title to the ROW and adjacent station grounds. If the land can be sold or used for purposes other than to operate a RR that may be the scheme of the prospective buyers. After all, they are real estate speculators.
So maybe UP runs one train a year over the line to "maintain their title" and avoid a lot of legal shenanigans. I would think having a couple of maintainers follow "the train" is cheaper than a cadre of lawyers. It's a railroad, we're using it, its ours.
For the purpose of this post, a "train" is a locomotive and markers. The maintainers are signal guys flagging crossings as the crossing protection equipment might be turned off at this point and track guys spiking switches and/or hi-railing ahead of said train.
rrnut282So maybe UP runs one train a year over the line to "maintain their title" and avoid a lot of legal shenanigans. I would think having a couple of maintainers follow "the train" is cheaper than a cadre of lawyers. It's a railroad, we're using it, its ours. For the purpose of this post, a "train" is a locomotive and markers. The maintainers are signal guys flagging crossings as the crossing protection equipment might be turned off at this point and track guys spiking switches and/or hi-railing ahead of said train.
Feature the lawyers would vote against that plan as it would reduce the billable hours. After all the 21st Century is the lawyers full employment century.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
The real estate in the Minturn yard itself is worth $8 million. Vail wants it for another ski area base.
There is a saying that has applicability in many, many situations!
"Use it or lose it".
Part of railroading from the earliest days to today is: protect your turf at all costs. That being said, is it the wisest course? During the run up to the SCL merger in the 1960s the Southern petitioned for redundant trackage here in Florida. The ICC said 'no' citing not enough business for two railroads (even though there already were two railroads). If some of that now abandoned trackage had been sold, not given, sold, to Southern then they would have been out the cost of purchase, the cost of upgrading and the cost of integration into their existing system. If the the traffic did not materialize then they would have been out the expense. If it did become successful then the the state would benefit from increased revenue.
If Uncle Pete does sell the Tennessee Pass line to another party then that party would be on the hook for rehabing it, UP would gain traffic from interchange on the west end and, if it does not pan out, then UP gets it back with invested capitol they can exploit as they wish.
Editor Emeritus, This Week at Amtrak
Was Tennessee Pass a land grant line? If so, does that come in to play at all from an STB standpoint of "adversely taking" the line to preserve rail service?
I don't know the answers - just asking the questions for the sake of discussion and maybe learning from those who may have some knowledge in that area.
Thanks in advance to anyone willing to share their expertise!
UP probably sees that come what may, service is certain to be restored by someone. They wish to be sure that the added traffic generated also benefits them, and that the restoration does not mean an actual loss of traffic for them. They want the operation to be a true feeder and not mostly a competitor.
Can you blame them?
(1) You do not have to run a train a year to hold the line (where did that one come from?) It's called a "Discontinuance of Service" from STB. (FD-29765 12/21/98)
(2) Parts of the line are Acts of 1872 and 1875 (No checkerboard land grant here). The discontinuance holds the rail corridor intact. (no matter what the NARPO nazis, EagleOne kooks, Trails knucklefutzes, local law bubbas and fellow nutcases think) Rail corridor ownership is well documented, as opposed to almost all of the local claims (hearsay mostly)....The trails and recreation floozies (along with Christo) are all poorly informed and all guilty of making up their own rules to suit their situation.The county grasp on who owns what in the high country is poor.
(3) there is activity at Leadville that may see eventully see some of the Moly and hematite mines re-open. Climax keeps running hot & cold over re-opening, but there are issues there. (Also rumblings at Malta, Buena Vista and Salida)
(4) Anschutz already has sold or developed a good chunk of the marketable property at Minturn, grabbing that prior to the UP takeover.
Somewhat concerned that the KVCN people are the second coming (and better funded) version of Craig Burroughs or Ed Ellis.
mudchickenSomewhat concerned that the KVCN people are the second coming (and better funded) version of Craig Burroughs or Ed Ellis.
With what Solow/Soloviev are worth, I don't think you have much worry about operating cheapness or 'cut and run' if they get into things they didn't budget for. I think there are compelling financial reasons for them to consider an alternative westbound-optimized route for directional loaded traffic, and it would appear that they have lined up WATCO as the operating entity, so there is no particular issue I can see with operational competence.
The 'real-estate play' is probably what UP's mystery alternative investor would be using as an excuse. It is difficult for me to see anyone other than Soloviev sourcing enough traffic of the right kind to make the line 'pay' ... let alone satisfy the issue about 'online traffic' being what is involved in a forced transfer.
This whole thing oddly reminds me of Carnegie and the Vanderbilts with the South Penn, another weird and wonderful routing that took on importance for strategic reasons.
Interesting discussion on this going on, of all places, on RyPN; about the only 'preservation' concern so far is to note that Royal Gorge Express has operating rights to part of the line, and that WATCO would likely be hostile to allowing steam excursions.
Does anyone know what Real Estate tax rates are imposed by the county tax assessors on RR ROW land? How much does it cost UP to own this route while it is not generating revenue?
Electroliner 1935 Does anyone know what Real Estate tax rates are imposed by the county tax assessors on RR ROW land? How much does it cost UP to own this route while it is not generating revenue?
mudchicken(3) there is activity at Leadville that may see eventully see some of the Moly and hematite mines re-open. Climax keeps running hot & cold over re-opening, but there are issues there.
Climax has reopened a few years ago. They are coordinating production with Henderson Mine. Even Henderson quit shipping by rail out of Kremmling years ago. Production is trucked out in one-ton bags.
(!) Climax has also shut down or slowed down several times in the interim.
(!!) Rock & Rail and RGX (Royal Gorge Express, et all) have finally spoken-up ....
(!!!) Go! - Diesel Fried Chicken Guy, Go!!! (RGP goes public...Hopefully a few others on this forum have caught on)
Rio Grande Pacific sounds a lot like Iowa Pacific......
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Dude, I think you'll find some significant differences. And I can only echo MC's cheering on of the DFC guy!
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
mudchicken (1) You do not have to run a train a year to hold the line (where did that one come from?) It's called a "Discontinuance of Service" from STB.
(1) You do not have to run a train a year to hold the line (where did that one come from?) It's called a "Discontinuance of Service" from STB.
Just some cliche exhibit to flash in front of the clueless if it goes to trial.
mudchicken (!) Climax has also shut down or slowed down several times in the interim. (!!) Rock & Rail and RGX (Royal Gorge Express, et all) have finally spoken-up .... (!!!) Go! - Diesel Fried Chicken Guy, Go!!! (RGP goes public...Hopefully a few others on this forum have caught on)
There's no rail link between the Climax mine at Leadville and the Tennessee Pass line. Most of the former DRGW line between Leadville and Malta was fully abandoned and removed years ago, so there's no rail connection betweeen the mine and the rest of the U.S. rail network. Also, I happen to have a copy of the 1995 abandonment application for the TP line filed as part of the UP/SP merger. It shows that the mine did not ship anything by rail since at least 1993 (the beginning of the abandonment study period).
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