tree68 Backshop I used to be accused of being a grammar nazi when I would call someone out on their capitalization, spelling, punctuation and grammar. They'd always excuse it by saying "I was in a hurry". I'd just laugh and shake my head because if you really know how to write correctly, it doesn't take any extra time and it comes naturally. Exactly. If you're used to doing it right, it's automatic. I also blame texting, where things like capitalization, punctuation, and spelling seem to be completely optional. Was it here we had the discussion about one space or two after the period ending a sentence? Maybe it was on FB... Many times I'll catch myself having muscle memory overriding my brain, turning "the" into "they," and the like.
Backshop I used to be accused of being a grammar nazi when I would call someone out on their capitalization, spelling, punctuation and grammar. They'd always excuse it by saying "I was in a hurry". I'd just laugh and shake my head because if you really know how to write correctly, it doesn't take any extra time and it comes naturally.
I used to be accused of being a grammar nazi when I would call someone out on their capitalization, spelling, punctuation and grammar. They'd always excuse it by saying "I was in a hurry". I'd just laugh and shake my head because if you really know how to write correctly, it doesn't take any extra time and it comes naturally.
Exactly. If you're used to doing it right, it's automatic.
I also blame texting, where things like capitalization, punctuation, and spelling seem to be completely optional.
Was it here we had the discussion about one space or two after the period ending a sentence? Maybe it was on FB...
Many times I'll catch myself having muscle memory overriding my brain, turning "the" into "they," and the like.
Johnny
CSSHEGEWISCH No we aren't, but good spelling and composition go a long way in helping get your point across.
No we aren't, but good spelling and composition go a long way in helping get your point across.
I agree completely. If you aren't having to strain your brain to figure out what the poster is trying to say. makes it much easier and quicker to read the post. Also, to me using poor grammar and 15 abbreviations per sentence and generally doing a poor job of writing tells me that one of these is true of the writer: 1) he is too stupid to know the difference, 2) he is too lazy to do it right, or 3) he doesn't respect his audience enough to do it right.
While I'm a fan of well-written posts with words spelled correctly, I believe on a site like this, it's just plain bad manners to point out someone's errors.
York1 John
I asked my doctor if I gave up delicious food and all alcohol, would I live longer? He said, "No, but it will seem longer."
York1While I'm a fan of well-written posts with words spelled correctly, I believe on a site like this, it's just plain bad manners to point out someone's errors.
We used to have a poster here whose grammar, etc, were atrocious. But the content of his posts was authoritative and informative, well worth picking through the language peccadillos. He struck me as someone whose upbringing was less than priviledged, but who made the best life he knew how.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
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I don't care how posters on the forum write.
But I expect professional writers and editors to do their jobs correctly.
Lithonia OperatorI don't care how posters on the forum write.
True that. But my opinion of them might go down a notch or two if they don't seem to understand proper word usage and a basic understanding of the queen's English. The occasional malaprop is fine. Yore, your, you're, and the like drive me nuts, but I'm still trying to figure out who "u" is. I see a lot of mentions of him/her on FB...
tree68 York1 While I'm a fan of well-written posts with words spelled correctly, I believe on a site like this, it's just plain bad manners to point out someone's errors. We used to have a poster here whose grammar, etc, were atrocious. But the content of his posts was authoritative and informative, well worth picking through the language peccadillos. He struck me as someone whose upbringing was less than priviledged, but who made the best life he knew how.
York1 While I'm a fan of well-written posts with words spelled correctly, I believe on a site like this, it's just plain bad manners to point out someone's errors.
Typing quickly, it's easy to write "here" for "hear", etc. It's easy to misspell words and use incorrect grammar when typing thoughts on a forum.
No one likes to be criticized. If one is criticized for a silly spelling or grammar error, it's even harder to accept.
I have to wonder why someone feels the need to point out someone else's mistakes.
I certainly don't need to have someone point out my mistakes; that's my wife's full-time job.
York1Typing quickly, it's easy to write "here" for "hear", etc. It's easy to misspell words and use incorrect grammar when typing thoughts on a forum.
The key difference is that it's easy and direct (most of the time) to go back in and 'edit' any mistakes on a forum, once detected (or mentioned). Or, in fact, remove the content of something that turns out to be misguiding or wrong, or "redact" something that is irritating to some people in the community.
You can't do that with comments in print in a magazine.
On the other hand, you could do what newspapers do: mention that they have made mistakes, provide the correct answer or whatever, and apologize for the misunderstanding. I do seem to remember seeing "Trains regrets the error" from time to time.
Print (to me) was always a 'higher standard' for proofreading, typesetting, and so forth. Just as "television broadcast" used to be a gold standard for careful video production. I violently disagreed with a couple of premises in the old IBM "Writing to Read" program, and have been disagreeing rather futilely with many other things since, particularly including that wretched "The Mac Is Not A Typewriter" thing ... and probably will continue to do so, but not in the hope that NeXT-like standards for proofreading or production will ever be adopted again. Doesn't mean I'll stop, though.
That's why I quietly redact any 'errors' in material I quote, and why I try to PM people when I see something in a post that may be a problem. Interestingly I have had people complain when I do that, just as if I'd done something to shame them publically or professionally ... even though no one but they and I will know anything about it. At least the subsequent discussion also takes place in private... as it should.
(Not that I pretend to be a paragon of virtue in these respects. What was that thing I criticized CMStPnP about a couple of months ago, that he started using as a kind of "Yankee Doodle" flag of pride against too much grammaticism or whatever?)
OvermodThat's why I quietly redact any 'errors' in material I quote,...
I've caught flack for doing that. Changing "here" to "hear" isn't usually going to change the meaning of the post. If I thought it would, I wouldn't change it.
It would take a pretty significant "error" before I'd PM someone on it.
Calling someone on a factual error is different.
There is a difference between a professional print publication and a comment posted on a forum page. There is a difference between a simple spelling error and a factually incorrect point.
I'm curious why someone would feel the need to point out a grammar error or a spelling error to someone on a forum, publicly or privately.
If the idea is to make the person who made the error learn something, it's unlikely to be effective.
York1I'm curious why someone would feel the need to point out a grammar error to someone on a forum, publicly or privately.
In my case, because it's almost physically painful to see errors in 'print'. Others may object to seeing hot-button references, or political points, or trolling. It's a quirk, but one that is not officially 'forbidden' by other posters and their opinions, any more than grammarians can dictate what is and isn't posted in other respects.
I'll grant you there are some other motivations for 'pointing out grammatical errors' in a forum thread itself, most of which are misguided or 'the sign of a somewhat insecure personality'. (The one 'exception' is when a poster makes a comment about grammar and commits errors in their 'correction' or comment... then it becomes very tempting to 'call' it. Not that this is necessarily an important or even substantial 'objection'... or an exception to the above... )
It is surprising how often someone who makes an error, either as a typo or through "insufficient knowledge" of English, appreciates a correction privately. Many posters do not have English as a first language, and are learning as they go; others do not know the rich joys of idiom and semantic construction yet, and often appreciate that someone has taken the time to explain something about it to them. The point is that when it is offered privately, it is free for them to take or ignore as they see fit, and it really doesn't matter if it's 'effective' in the sense they go and sin no more thereafter. One can at least try.
York1I'm curious why someone would feel the need to point out a grammar error or spelling error to someone on a forum, publicly or privately.
I'd opine it would be one of two reasons - first is altruistic, they do believe they are doing the "offender" a favor.
I might do that via PM if the person is guilty of a malapropism - say, using "precipitation" when they mean "participation." I got a phone call the other day from someone who used a place name so mangled that it took me a couple of other clues to figure out what they meant.
The second would basically be described as bullying - perhaps an effort to reduce the "offender's" status in the eyes of others.
There is another poster who is respected despite his continual mispellings--even of city names. His sentence structure is, to me, excellent.
I've never had the urge to play "grammar cop" myself, I've always been interested in what someone has to say irregardless of how they say it.
I think we all lose if all we have here are the "usual suspects" as far as commenting is concerned, and certainly I'm one of them.
It's less fun if some people dominate here to the exclusion of others.
I used to be very active on an auto racing forum. But there is one pompous jerk who corrects everyone's English. Now, I am fairly OC about what I write, so I mostly escaped his snarky wrath. But seeing him do that day after day to others is the main reason I spend very little time there now. It's not that clown's job. I tried to get the moderators to intervene, as did others, but they won't.
Lithonia OperatorI tried to get the moderators to intervene, as did others, but they won't.
Sometimes it's because said poster has some sort of inside connection, unfortunately.
I'm betting said individual rarely actually adds anything constructive to the discussion.
Rule number one of how to write good:
Avoid cliches like the plague.
While I try to proof what I post, I'm sure that some mistakes have gotten through. And if I can not mentally correct for someone typing to, too, or two incorectly or hear for here then shame on me.
As the expression goes, "Let he without sin throw the first stone"!
54light15 Rule number one of how to write good: Avoid cliches like the plague.
I see what you did there.
As an 88-year-old, I do not mind being corrected in any mistake I make, and am willing to see the correction publicly displayed. (Perhaps this is a lack of humility, but I believe my postings are useful to readers to the extent that I am forgiven for the errors I do make.) I do believe that misinformation is a far greater error than typos or spelling or even gramatical erros, except when they lead to misunderstanding the message.
And I also believe that material published in Kalmbach publications should be held to a higher standard in all areas than anything on any Forum. And thus I will continue to post errors that concern me, while still saying the two publications I read, Trains and Classic Trains, are valuable, generally accurate (but we are all human), well-worth the prices of subscriptions, and very enjoyable to read.
I am trying to do better regarding typos and spelling errors on the two Forums. A better computer with a good spell-check is helpful, and I have to thank the Yeshiva for letting me use it for purposes other than religious material.
daveklepperAs an 88-year-old, I do not mind being corrected in any mistake I make, and am willing to see the correction publicly displayed.
I'm glad you feel that way.
However, not everyone does. Some people would rather be judged on the content of their post rather than an unintentional spelling error.
On a forum like this, pointing out the minor faults of someone else is bad manners, especially when that action does nothing to add to the discussion.
York1 daveklepper As an 88-year-old, I do not mind being corrected in any mistake I make, and am willing to see the correction publicly displayed. I'm glad you feel that way. However, not everyone does. Some people would rather be judged on the content of their post rather than an unintentional spelling error. On a forum like this, pointing out the minor faults of someone else is bad manners, especially when that action does nothing to add to the discussion.
daveklepper As an 88-year-old, I do not mind being corrected in any mistake I make, and am willing to see the correction publicly displayed.
I couldn't agree with you more.
There's a particular English mistake that a few people on this forum make over and over again, like clockwork, totally consistently. But it's simply not anyone's role here to point it out.
If this were a writing forum, maybe. But probably not, even in that case.
You're exactly correct.
Lithonia OperatorThere's a particular English mistake that a few people on this forum make over and over again, like clockwork, totally consistently. But it's simply not anyone's role here to point it out.
Perhaps that's how they learned it. Maybe it's like the "Oxford comma."
I learned to type using two spaces after a sentence ending period (and after a colon, as I recall). Some think of that as redundant.
If there is a general mistake that many make, I would appreciate knowing what it is. It should not hurt anyone's feelings to point it out, as a general mistake, and we all can learn.
Possibly two spaces after a period or colon is optional, and inconsistancy can be forgiven on forums (but not in printed publications). Ditto the question of "a, b, c, and d" or "a. b. c and d."
To make those of us who appreciate being corrected, as well as those who feel hurt, may I suggest that all corrections, when possible, be presented as general knowledge, rather than a reply to a particular posting?
daveklepperTo make those of us who appreciate being corrected, as well as those who feel hurt, may I suggest that all corrections, when possible, be presented as general knowledge, rather than a reply to a particular posting?
I'll be the buffer, although it's not my observation (I may even be guilty of it myself from time to time). Improper use of "a" and "an." Such as "I ate a apple today," vs "I ate an apple."
As I've noted, sometimes improper usage is a matter of how one was raised - Mom and Dad spoke that way, therefore so do I, if you will.
Consider yourselfs corrected!
The REAL test - does the statement made convey the thought intended.
It is about communication, not grammar.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
[quote user="BaltACD"]
It is about communication, not grammar.[/quote]
I can't disagree, but I can say that a well-written item will convey more "trustability" (25 cent word for the day) than one littered with simple errors.
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