I have re-read the article on KC railroads several times and stared at the map but am still confused. The article repeatedly talks about the Argentine yards, but that is no where on the map. It talks about the Bottoms, those are no where shown. It says in the text that Argentine is BNSF but I am fairly sure it is UP. The article mentions a bridge that was moved, now pedestrian, and says that is a great trainwatching location, but the map does not show it.
Bordered by 55th street on the west, 18th street on the east, Kansas avenue on the North, and the former ATSF main on the south, Argentine yard is a BNSF yard...I think that it is one of the biggest in their system.
I know it can be frusrating to read of landmarks mentioned in their text but not shown on their (Trains Magazine) graphics. Been there, done that.
I've been through Kansas City, but never to the railyards. Argentine yard is south of the river, UP's Armourdale yard is north of the river
Haven't read that article yet, but a brief glance at the map (before I saw this thread) had me thinking the same thing about the labels.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
The map and article seem to focus on Kansas City, MO. The "A" yards (Argentine exATSF now BNSF, Armstrong UP, and Armourdale exRI now UP) are all on the Kansas City, KS side.
Jeff
Another thing about that article. There is a PCC car sitting there- is it a preserved relic? Also the train with the dome car. Any info about that? It has its lights on so I assume it's an excursion train, maybe?
There has been a lot of confusion about Kansas City, KS and Kansas City, MO in the past 24 hours.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
If you've been through KC on Amtrak, you stop for refueling in Argentine west of the station stop. It would appear that Argentine is off the map by the lower-left corner.Really, though, for a place as vital and complicated as KC, a map should be a two-page spread, I agree.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Isn't Argentine yard where a much touted "flyover" was built a decade or so back?
(i don't have the latest issue, so I'm flying blind)
54light15Another thing about that article. There is a PCC car sitting there- is it a preserved relic? Also the train with the dome car. Any info about that? It has its lights on so I assume it's an excursion train, maybe?
The string of cars you see with the dome car at the end is on the KC Union Station Private Car track. It belongs to an AAPRCO member and is used in charter service. The red tail lights being lit can be anything, the private cars in the Milwaukee depot sometimes have them left on. I believe they do that when they expect switching of the private car tracks to make the car more visible as a hint to the switching crew not to attempt a 5-10 mph coupling manuever. That the private car owner would prefer the feather touch coupling instead.
The private car track in KC is switched a lot for events such as when the UP Big Boy came to town. PCC Car probably belongs to the transportation exhibit part of KC union station (not finished yet). The intent of KC US to have a display train of vintage streamliner rail passenger cars, not sure what happened to that plan but I noticed most of those cars are gone now. Probably too expensive of a plan for their budget. There is a museum part of KC Union Station that has several trainsets of multiple scales HO, O Gauge, etc. Some were supplied by the KC Union Station railroads as a donation. Also, several large murals from the 1950's. There is also a railroad picture art collection donated by Mr. Haverty along with several of the large models he accumulated while at Santa Fe. TRAINS could have done better with a LOT more pictures, looks like the article was a rush job. Some guy flew into town for a day or two and just got the general highlights but skipped the details.
Oh and my view on the restauarants in the Milwaukee Road Frieght house and I ate at all of them. The Austrian restaurant is not full menu Austrian they only have a few dishes at best that lean more towards Hungarian than Austrian and in my view they are pretty crappy as someone who has been in Europe. Lydias also the food there left a lot to be desired. The Jack Stack BBQ place is OK except their burnt ends have a lot of untrimmed fat left on them. Personally, when I eat burn ends I expect them to be at least 80% meat not 50-60% fat....I guess I am spoiled in Texas. They also cut their brisket incorrectly at the BBQ place. If you cut brisket correctly there should be two grades of meat when your finished not one single grade......again spoiled in Texas I guess.
Ithaca and OwegoThe article mentions a bridge that was moved, now pedestrian, and says that is a great trainwatching location, but the map does not show it.
You cannot see the bridge because the map scale is so tiny to fit in the limited space they provided. However the bridge is part of the Kansas City Union Station property and connects Kansas City Union Station to the former freight recieving part of the complex across the tracks. Specifically to an old Milwaukee Road Frieght House that is now a restaurant complex. The Milwaukee Road Freight House used to distribute Schlitz Beer.
At any rate to get to the bridge you enter KC Union Station at the front doors and walk as far as you can to very back of the station where the gates to the train platforms used to be you will see the sign to the Micheal Haverty bridge, follow the hallway and exit the building and it will connect directly to the bridge that spans the tracks that see 100+ trains a day (UPRR, KCT, BNSF). Primarily it is the BNSF mainline to Chicago but you also see a decent amount of UPRR traffic. And as I mentioned before I believe UPRR and BNSF contracted local switching to KCT - Kansas City Terminal, as I see them running exclusively local switching jobs and UPRR and BNSF only running through trains.
BaltACDThere has been a lot of confusion about Kansas City, KS and Kansas City, MO in the past 24 hours.
More and more it seems the stories are clipping off key parts that would lead to a more indepth coverage of an issue..........here are two examples I spotted:
AMTRAK AND KANSAS CITY side bar, nice to know the history but there is no future? How hard would it have been to get some comments from locals on the Heartland Flyer North service they are trying to extend to KC or how about the local interest in more KC to Omaha, NE travel options?
REINVENTING THE CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR article, it stated Anderson only brings up the California Zephyr and Coast Starlight as trains he would like to preserve. Well that was 2/3 correct, he also mentions the Empire Builder along with the other two. However the Empire Builder doesn't quite fit with the rest of the narrative which was preserve only one LD train basically like Canada does with the Canadian. Personally, would never follow Canada's rail passenger example as a theme for an article.
I trully believe Mr. Anderson looked at the sorry financial history of the Sunset Limited and formed a conclusion with that train as he probably did with the Cardinal and a few others. I think that is reasonable vs portrayed as unreasonable. The fact that Amtrak is still looking at Long Distance train expansion if they can obtain funding should tell TRAINS that he is not necessarily interested in gutting all the LD trains. He still has an open mind in that area if their losses can be made more reasonable and support found for them. To me that sounds like what the average taxpayer would want.
LOL, what's funny about that is, I had no idea what you were even talking about until I went to another site that I frequent thathad a picture posted of the band "Kansas" with the word "Missouri" superimposed over the band's name.
We are all fallible beings, but that particular mistake at the highest levels is shocking.
Convicted OneWe are all fallible beings, but that particular mistake at the highest levels is shocking.
Yeah, kinda like someone claiming they had visited 57 states.
York1 John
York1Yeah, kinda like someone claiming they had visited 57 states.
Isn't "clueless" a state?
Back to railroading, I see that Argentine yard has a car shop, a diesel shop, and crew disticts reaching to Arkansas City KS, Newton KS, Emporia KS, Wellington, KS; Oklahoma City, OK; and Brookfield, MO.
It's a monster, here's a picture furnished by the University of Kansas.
Thanks to everyone who replied. I went to Google Maps and finally saw that large Argentine yard, indeed off the map in KC (KS). Look at the Trains map, even if they don't show the yard, the BNSF at lower left does not even say "to Argentine yard". The Armourdale yard is shown. I also discovered on Google Maps that the "Bottoms" is the triangle where the Kansas and Missouri rivers meet, and there are bluffs up to the main part of KC (MO). OK, I can use Google Maps, but I think the Trains map should include all the features mentioned in the article.
Another basic item missing from the map is a north arrow to help those of us who are furriners. I assume north is at the top and it and the inset have the same orientation.
In the sidebar describing the "big five railroads", CP's history in the area is more extensive than mentioned. It is true that CP's acquisition of the ICE brought it into Kansas City, but in fact the ICE was spun off from CP some years earlier so it was actually just returning to KC. The line was part of the Milwaukee Road acquisition, and then deemed disposable. (I believe the cost of replacing a high number of aging pile trestles was a factor.)
John
cx500Another basic item missing from the map is a north arrow to help those of us who are furriners. I assume north is at the top and it and the inset have the same orientation.
North is "up."
I have to agree, though. Sometimes the orientation of a map is driven by how it will fit on the page...
I want to thank CMStP&P for lots of good information that both explain missing points in the article and also would be very worthwhile if I am ever lucky enough to be able to visit the two KCs in the future. Two very valuable posts.
I tried to read the article and was confused and actually quit. Map didnt show items mentioned in the article.
It could be argued that an entire magazine issue could be devoted to this area.
BTW...where is the underground warehouse area?Ed
Here is one that I know of ..
daveklepper I want to thank CMStP&P for lots of good information that both explain missing points in the article and also would be very worthwhile if I am ever lucky enough to be able to visit the two KCs in the future. Two very valuable posts.
Thanks!
I fly into KC at least once every 2 months, they are finally building a new airport as well which will be really nice when complete in 2-3 years. I stay at the Westin - Kansas City which just had a remodel and is an excellently run hotel across the street from Union Station and connected by skywalks so you don't have to walk outside to get to Union Station. Union Station also has a nice formal restaurant in it called Pierpoints.....on the upper end of the price range but the prices are still fair. They have a Harvey lunch counter still but it is only open for lunch.
MP173BTW...where is the underground warehouse area?
Ed, using a real map of Kansas City, interstate 435 approximates the western border, and Missouri route 210 approximates the Southern border.
A local surface street called "NE Underground Dr" runs right up to the main entrance of the cave
Today the train I got on was one that came up through Kansas City. (Empty grain train coming back from down south.) One of the Kansas City guys must have cleaned out his grip of old paperwork. I found, what I expect is an outdated copy, of "Greater Kansas City Area Operating Instructions." It's a guide, kind of like CORA in Chicago, for UP operations over CP and KCT lines. Lines the UP uses comding down from Des Moines. How coincidental.
Of course, I would've 'saved' it even if Trains' hadn't had an article on Kansas City.
National Geographic has maps with many articles. And while a map of Australia might have the basic large cities on it, whenever their stories mention Joe Blow's cattle ranch, or some other tiny thing, they ADD that to the map. Just a small square with "Joe Blow Ranch" next to it. They take the stock maps from their files and add small details to fit the atricle.
I have written to Trains Magazine editors in the past suggesting they do this. It seems they just find a stock map of an area and that is as far as it goes. I enjoy the articles from people describing their days on the railroad, and it is frustrating when you flip back to the map to see where Nowhereville is with respect to Gartlinburg, and...there ain't one.
I forgive mistakes, but this is just editorial omission.
Maybe they did it on purpose to sell more publications. I just bought RR Maps #2 and it has a GREAT map of the Kansas City area!
PS--Looking more closely, it's the same map but expanded to show outlying locations and with an inset map.
While I was associate editor at Railfan & Railroad magazine 1988-1996, one of my duties was to research and design the maps. The first step was to always ask editor Jim Boyd for a hardcopy of the article's text and (if possible) its photo captions. To the best of our ability, we tried to make sure that every location mentioned in the story and its photo captions got shown on the map. On a few occasions, however, when the number of pages alotted to an article left space for only a small map, we were forced to exclude some degree of detail.
My hand-drawn pencil work on mylar, complete with all placenames and geographic details, went to an artist who completed the final work in pen and ink. I keyboarded all text for towns, sidings, tunnels, geography, etc., which then got printed at an outside vendor. I then ran those text sheets through a waxer, trimmed out each line of text with a straight edge and X-Acto knife, and hand placed each piece of text where it belonged on the map. The overall magazine went desktop/digital during my last year or two at R&R, but the maps continued to be done old school until some time later.
Since leaving R&R, whenever I've submitted an article to any magazine that will include a map, I've made a point of providing map resource material that has been labeled to include all of the placenames mentioned in my story text and photo captions. In most cases, the magazine artists have obliged by giving the maps the level of detail I was hoping for, and which the readers deserve.
Many years ago, Trains published an opinion piece that described how rail enthusiasts fall into two basic categories: technicians or geographers. I have usually leaned toward being the latter. I think there are enough others out there with the same mindset who appreciate being able to figure out the what and where of the railroad subject matter they're reading about. When published maps fall short, we at least have in this day and age Googlemaps and other references to fill in the blanks.
Something sister publication Model Railroader does in their articles about layouts is show where the accompanying pictures were taken on the layout "map."
Simply carrying this mentality to showing mentioned placenames on the map should be part of the plan. Adding numbered arrows showing where accompanying pictures were taken from would actually be a nice feature.
I'm one of those folks who heads for a map/satellite image site on a regular basis. This is especially true for one of my other avocations - fire. Any time I read of a major fire, I'll head on-line to take a look at the area of the incident.
The lag between when the image was captured and today can be quite apparent sometimes. Two recent fires in large buildings under construction showed empty lots on satellite.
Back to railroads - railroad archeology can be interesting, too, using the site "historicaerials.com." The resolution of those old images isn't all that great, but between them and the old topo maps the site often has for a given location, you can find out some interesting info.
Bruce Kelly While I was associate editor at Railfan & Railroad magazine 1988-1996, one of my duties was to research and design the maps. The first step was to always ask editor Jim Boyd for a hardcopy of the article's text and (if possible) its photo captions. To the best of our ability, we tried to make sure that every location mentioned in the story and its photo captions got shown on the map. On a few occasions, however, when the number of pages alotted to an article left space for only a small map, we were forced to exclude some degree of detail. My hand-drawn pencil work on mylar, complete with all placenames and geographic details, went to an artist who completed the final work in pen and ink. I keyboarded all text for towns, sidings, tunnels, geography, etc., which then got printed at an outside vendor. I then ran those text sheets through a waxer, trimmed out each line of text with a straight edge and X-Acto knife, and hand placed each piece of text where it belonged on the map. The overall magazine went desktop/digital during my last year or two at R&R, but the maps continued to be done old school until some time later. Since leaving R&R, whenever I've submitted an article to any magazine that will include a map, I've made a point of providing map resource material that has been labeled to include all of the placenames mentioned in my story text and photo captions. In most cases, the magazine artists have obliged by giving the maps the level of detail I was hoping for, and which the readers deserve. Many years ago, Trains published an opinion piece that described how rail enthusiasts fall into two basic categories: technicians or geographers. I have usually leaned toward being the latter. I think there are enough others out there with the same mindset who appreciate being able to figure out the what and where of the railroad subject matter they're reading about. When published maps fall short, we at least have in this day and age Googlemaps and other references to fill in the blanks.
I appreciate your attention to detail as I like the locations to be shown. The article mentions the bottoms and I don't font the area marked. It mentions the freight house and I didn't see it on the map. And many other omissions.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.