For its rail division, it's talking to Alstom and Hitachi.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bombardier-railway-m-a-idUSKBN1ZN24Z
Bombardier is taking a major hit in its aviation division based on poor sales of what is now branded as the Airbus A220. The sale of the rail division may be needed to raise cash.
The aviation division has also been broken up and sold. The A220 assembly line was bought by Airbus. The Q400 bought by Longview Aviation and the CRJ line is in the process of being bought by Mitsubishi. Bombardier's problem is the family that owns it.
Yes the family seems to be a problem in my expereance. The same thing is going on with Bombardier Recreation Products Co.
What's the story with the family?
They own the company but are lousy businessmen and won't take outside advice, from what I remember.
All true and the governments of Canada and Quebec will do all they can to keep them afloat. A matter of national pride no matter how poorly the company is run or the lousy products they make like the new Flexity streetcars that I ride every day. Via's next order of rail cars is going to Siemens, Bombardier was never considered.
azrailTypical French Canadiens.
CSSHEGEWISCH azrail Typical French Canadiens. And just what was that supposed to mean??
azrail Typical French Canadiens.
Doubt that it was a compliment.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD CSSHEGEWISCH azrail Typical French Canadiens. And just what was that supposed to mean?? Doubt that it was a compliment.
Normally I would disagree with a insult like that, but he's spot on. Quebec has long had big problems with corruption, far more than the other provinces.
Bombardier started out after WWII building various tracked snow machines and gradually diversified. The founder died in 1964. The company sold off the Ski-Doo division in 2003, and now focuses on aerospace and rail equipment.
The current company has teetered on the edge of bankruptcy for some years, and has been bailed out by both the provincial and federal governments.
To be fair, Brazil and France subsidize Embraer and Airbus the same way, and Boeing can always rely on its military contracts. Those are Bombardier's main competitors.
Bombardier's rail division has had a lot of delivery and reliability problems in recent years. VIA was right to go with Siemens for their recent large order of new higher speed trainsets. Bombardier was really, really angry that they lost out on this contract.
I hope the new LRT cars Bombardier is currently delivering to Edmonton will stand up in our winters. The current fleet (100% Siemens) has a 40 year track record of excellence.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
All true, but has nothing to do with being French Canadian. Quebec certainly doesn't have a monopoly on poorly run businesses..and in my experience the education system is better. I've met people here with 12 years in school who are unable to calculate the area of a triangle or the volume of a cylinder..who have never heard of obscure writers like Mark Twain or Earnest Hemingway.. far fewer of those in French Canada for some reason..
I remember learning trig and that other stuff in high school, but I would have to look up the formulas to calculate them again, I don't have them memorized by heart.
I do remember that Pi = 3.14159, though that is probably more from a catchy line in a Third Rock From the Sun episode than from school.
Never read much Hemingway, but I did read Huck Finn. Started Tom Sawyer, but never finished it for some reason.
SD70Dude I remember learning trig and that other stuff in high school, but I would have to look up the formulas to calculate them again, I don't have them memorized by heart. I do remember that Pi = 3.14159, though that is probably more from a catchy line in a Third Rock From the Sun episode than from school. Never read much Hemingway, but I did read Huck Finn. Started Tom Sawyer, but never finished it for some reason.
I'm sure you'd do fine on any math or lit test. I recall being interviewed by a U of T prof back in 82.. I had applied for engineering, and he told me that my Quebec HS diploma would not be sufficient in Ontario. I took offence and asked him to show me some first year problems.. long story short, I had no problem with them, but his characterization of Quebec and Quebeckers was way off track. Since then I've always had a chip on my shoulder about U of T. Now my son has applied there to study computer engineering. I told him McGill is a much better school, and they're not quite as arrogant.. (not quite, but getting close!)..
Toronto out-egos every other city in the nation. It is only fitting that their university does the same.
It was and is a disgusting comment. Ridiculous branding an entire society and culture like that. Tell it to NDG, to his face!
Ulrich SD70Dude I remember learning trig and that other stuff in high school, but I would have to look up the formulas to calculate them again, I don't have them memorized by heart. I do remember that Pi = 3.14159, though that is probably more from a catchy line in a Third Rock From the Sun episode than from school. Never read much Hemingway, but I did read Huck Finn. Started Tom Sawyer, but never finished it for some reason. I'm sure you'd do fine on any math or lit test. I recall being interviewed by a U of T prof back in 82.. I had applied for engineering, and he told me that my Quebec HS diploma would not be sufficient in Ontario. I took offence and asked him to show me some first year problems.. long story short, I had no problem with them, but his characterization of Quebec and Quebeckers was way off track. Since then I've always had a chip on my shoulder about U of T. Now my son has applied there to study computer engineering. I told him McGill is a much better school, and they're not quite as arrogant.. (not quite, but getting close!)..
My grandfather did both his undergrad degree and MD at Toronto. He was from nearby Whitby, and a very modest man.
Dude!!?? Toronto out-egos every other city in the nation. It is only fitting that their university does the same.
You're slamming my U! St.Michael's U of T.
What's with all this whitewashing going on? An awful lot of fine fine people came out of U of T.
Miningman Dude!!?? Toronto out-egos every other city in the nation. It is only fitting that their university does the same. You're slamming my U! St.Michael's U of T. What's with all this whitewashing going on? An awful lot of fine fine people came out of U of T.
True. Ridiculous and petty slamming.
To be fair, the aviation industry in Canada has been a problem for decades...
De Havilland Canada, Canadair, Orenda...
Bombardier ended up with what was left of all of these....
DHC only really succeeded with the DHC-8...
The Beaver, The Otter and the Twin Otter were great aircraft but with a niche market. The Dash 7 didn't even have a niche of its own.
Canadair provided the CL-600 series (and the forward fuselage and cockpit design for the Dash 8).
The C series was competing against the Brazilians who had a head start.
Does Canada need to build airliners?
The railroad area is different... The Acelas use a Canadian design of passenger car. I would be surprised if the TGV design of their replacements works nearly as well. The bi-level commuter car (which came from Hawker Siddeley via the UTDC) is a world class design with a big share of the US market.
Bombardier in Germany will have to continue under some ownership or other and neither Alstom (too French) nor Hitachi (too Japanese) is likely to appeal to the Germans.
Peter
charlie hebdo Ulrich SD70Dude I remember learning trig and that other stuff in high school, but I would have to look up the formulas to calculate them again, I don't have them memorized by heart. I do remember that Pi = 3.14159, though that is probably more from a catchy line in a Third Rock From the Sun episode than from school. Never read much Hemingway, but I did read Huck Finn. Started Tom Sawyer, but never finished it for some reason. I'm sure you'd do fine on any math or lit test. I recall being interviewed by a U of T prof back in 82.. I had applied for engineering, and he told me that my Quebec HS diploma would not be sufficient in Ontario. I took offence and asked him to show me some first year problems.. long story short, I had no problem with them, but his characterization of Quebec and Quebeckers was way off track. Since then I've always had a chip on my shoulder about U of T. Now my son has applied there to study computer engineering. I told him McGill is a much better school, and they're not quite as arrogant.. (not quite, but getting close!).. My grandfather did both his undergrad degree and MD at Toronto. He was from nearby Whitby, and a very modest man.
My brother and one nephew went to U of T (St George College I believe) .. I still razz them about it. All in good fun. Nobody gets too upset at the dinner table..
charlie hebdo Miningman Dude!!?? Toronto out-egos every other city in the nation. It is only fitting that their university does the same. You're slamming my U! St.Michael's U of T. What's with all this whitewashing going on? An awful lot of fine fine people came out of U of T. True. Ridiculous and petty slamming.
A good school.. all kidding aside. Lots of fine people went there. No slamming going on..just a bit of ribbing.
First, any conflation of Quebecois business practice, or support, with a racial or societal epithet like "French Canadien" is insufferable to me. I have had plenty of exposure to French culture in various areas of Quebec, and while I'm sure there are plenty of 'Pepsis' to be found if you look, I doubt you could make an equal claim about other identified ethnic groups without at least receiving some interesting PMs from moderators.
Second, there is not much more underhanded with the Quebec government providing support to 'internal' business than, say, MITI or various European governments doing the same. I saw the good and the bad firsthand during my investment in a Canadian treadmill company, and the issue is far more with wheeling and dealing management than with government support ... even where there's sweetheart personal connection involved.
I can't speak directly to Toronto arrogance, but there's certainly been an atmosphere of superiority to Francophone culture there for many years. It does not hold a candle to the Torontonian general feeling toward Americans, though. I have been generally very lucky in that most of my Toronto contacts were through people already known, liked, and trusted in that city ... otherwise I think I would have had more of an uphill battle there than I did down south in Minden.
And arrogant college assumptions are certainly no indication of lacking competence. I'd suspect most any Ivy League has done the same, or worse, perhaps on a fairly institutional basis. Certainly my sister no longer donates to her college based on how her son was treated during his application process. Doesn't mean the school itself is "bad" somehow. Doesn't mean they're right, or justified, for being arrogant either.
Not fair to quote Orenda, or Avro either, as if there were some technical problem there. The issue as I understand it is almost purely craven politics -- whether or not Canada as a society could compete effectively in the aerospace 'defense' markets as they existed by the early 1960s (especially, but not exclusively, with respect to security) is a decidedly different question. Certainly Hawker-Siddeley did technology transfer from aircraft to railroads more effectively than any ... I'd prefer NOT to compare, ahem, Boeing/Vertol or Grumman...
I'll grant you this: Bombardier was, and is, in over its head in trying to build sophisticated aircraft. And they have a decidedly checkered track record in building quite a bit of their 'designed-here' railroad equipment... not that other companies might not have had the same or similar misfortunes.
Bombardier is one of those flagship companies (like SNC Lavelin) that will not be allowed to fail. It is and has been for a long time one of Quebec's largest employers, although clearly they've lost their direction over the years and need to refocus the business on niches they have a good chance of competing successfully in. Poor focus is what killed off Nortel.. they had spread themselves too thin across too many markets, and in the end that's what did them in (along with questionable accounting). And if Bombardier isn't careful they may go that way too.
About arrogant colleges.. sometimes the messaging is funny. a few months ago I attended a U of T engineering open house on behalf of my son who could not attend. The first presenter, making the point that the program is challenging, stated "look to your left and look to your right.. chances are that the person sitting beside you won't be here in six months". Well.. nothing but parents to my left and right, and I'm pretty sure I won't be there in six months. But I get it.. its part of the mystique of attending an Ivy league school. A bit of arrogance is ok if there's some substance behind it, and in U of T's case there is as they're rated among the top 50 schools worldwide.
UlrichAbout arrogant colleges.. sometimes the messaging is funny. a few months ago I attended a U of T engineering open house on behalf of my son who could not attend. The first presenter, making the point that the program is challenging, stated "look to your left and look to your right.. chances are that the person sitting beside you won't be here in six months". Well.. nothing but parents to my left and right, and I'm pretty sure I won't be there in six months. But I get it.. its part of the mystique of attending an Ivy league school. A bit of arrogance is ok if there's some substance behind it, and in U of T's case there is as they're rated among the top 50 schools worldwide.
When I attended Purdue it was stated differently - with Freshman Math, Chemistry and Physics all flunking 70% or more of each class - It was stated 70% if you won't be he next year! In my case I made it to 1st Semester 2nd year.
M636C To be fair, the aviation industry in Canada has been a problem for decades... De Havilland Canada, Canadair, Orenda... Bombardier ended up with what was left of all of these.... DHC only really succeeded with the DHC-8... The Beaver, The Otter and the Twin Otter were great aircraft but with a niche market. The Dash 7 didn't even have a niche of its own. Canadair provided the CL-600 series (and the forward fuselage and cockpit design for the Dash 8). The C series was competing against the Brazilians who had a head start. Does Canada need to build airliners? The railroad area is different... The Acelas use a Canadian design of passenger car. I would be surprised if the TGV design of their replacements works nearly as well. The bi-level commuter car (which came from Hawker Siddeley via the UTDC) is a world class design with a big share of the US market. Bombardier in Germany will have to continue under some ownership or other and neither Alstom (too French) nor Hitachi (too Japanese) is likely to appeal to the Germans. Peter
The Canadair Regional Jet never had a crash? https://www.quora.com/Are-there-any-safety-concerns-regarding-the-CRJ-900-airplane (OK, the crumped one in the hanger and militants destroyed one on the ground in the Middle East?)
I'd say that is a pretty good aviation industry.
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
Bombardier Aerospace ran into problems mainly because they tried to take on three clean sheet airplane designs at once (the C-Series, Global 7500/8000 and Learjet 85, which has since been cancelled) at the same time as orders for the succesful Dash 8 Q400 and CRJ family were dropping. Some of their business jet offering seem to compete with each other, too. The result was that they ran out of cash.
The C-Series also was sized above the American scope clause weight/size, limiting its potential in the US as it can only be flown by mainline carriers (a problem the Embraer E2 is also running into). It's a great aircraft with a lot of potential, but Bombardier didn't have the resources to fully support the program. Hence the deal with Airbus, which will be very interesting to watch.
Bombardier's North American rail side is increasingly looking like Breda's did before people stopped ordering from them; lots of delays, quality problems, and an inability to right the ship. If they're not careful, they'll suffer the same fate.
Speaking of Airbus- the two-story airplane that they built? The landing gear was made in Oakville, Ontario. The legs came from a plant in Hamilton and they were heat treated in Burlington. Machinng and assembly was done in Oakville in a B.F. Goodrich plant. The test rig was something to see!
bombardier, dead man walking
UlrichAbout arrogant colleges.. sometimes the messaging is funny. a few months ago I attended a U of T engineering open house on behalf of my son who could not attend. The first presenter, making the point that the program is challenging, stated "look to your left and look to your right.. chances are that the person sitting beside you won't be here in six months".
Things don't change. Back in 1955 when I started at the University of Cincinnati to get my engineering degree, the line I heard was that not just the individuals to the left and right of me would be gone but also those in front and back would be gone. And many did drop or transfer to a business major. Not sure whether it was as great as an 80% drop.
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