Railfan? Businessfan?

[jwinter]

Are you a railfan[?] Are you a business fan[?] Can you be both[?][%-)] I'm rather new to this TRAINS forum and it has been very entertaining and informative. But it seems that most threads actually have two threads. Those making their case about the business/investor side of railroading, and those that only want to follow railroads as a hobby.

Case in point, the thread about "railfans griping about paint". The railfans have their tastes in what they want to see (shiny, dirty, matched sets, etc), and the business fans are concerned more about the bottom line (profit, money, happy investors). Can the two live together?

I'm going to pick on Mark Hemphill (Sorry Mark, but I figured you have probably been picked on once or twice being a writer and such[;)]). Mark seems to lean more towards the business side than the railfan side. There'll be a good railfan discussion about, let's say "paint", and then Mark and company will start talking dollars and cents (or sense), and it dampens the whole lively discussion.

Then there are guys like "espeefoamer" who goes right to the point about paint and say's, "Better a dirty grimy ALCo than a sqeeky clean Dash 9.[}:)]" Sometimes more is said in less.

Of course there are times when the discussion is meant more for economics, like the "CN, GOOD OR BAD?" This was a good discussion about business and needs of customers, communities, company profits and investors. In a discussion like that, a statement similar to espeefoamer's would not fit. (Sorry Dan. But you are right, dirty ALCo's are great) [[oops] I haven't checked the CN story for a while and didn't realize it took a bad turn and was locked down. Maybe a bad comparison, but you get my point hopefully]

Then there are others you have the ability to weave between being a railfan and understanding rail business. Something they are better at than I am.

Since this is a relaxing hobby for me, I lean towards being a foamer. Kick back and watch trains and at the same time learn something about them. Mark's hobby has become a job. Maybe I'm wrong Mark, I hope I am, but maybe you need to get trackside, kickback, and watch the action and forget about the rest.

Railfanning can be broken down into so many sub-catagories. How many catagories are out there? And where do you fit[?]

[Anonymous]

Well said.

[Anonymous]

My opinion falls in with Mark's in that I was a railfan who had many questions. In order to satisfy my curiosity I do a lot reading in magazines, books, and this forum. And I also realized my childhood dream of working on the railroad even though I took a very strange and winding road to get to where I'm at now. When I get on a coal train, I wonder where the coal came from and where it is going. Right now, the coal that is mined out of Eastern Illinois that used to go to local power plants now has too high of a sulfur count, and is now sent up to Buffalo where it is put on a barge and shipped to China where they don't have as strict of regulations on air quality. When I talk to a dispatcher to get permission to open up a switch on the mainline, etc. I often wonder what it's like to sit behind the console. Anyways, I'm definitely a fan of the business and the hobby and I never tire of learning.

[MP173]

As a young railfan in the 70's, I was interested in the head end of the train. What kind of locomotive, how many horsepower, etc.

As I grew older and as I became involved in the business world, I often wondered, as Nate and Mark stated "why" or "where" or "how much".

Today, as a 49 year old I define myself as a "transportation fan". I am currently reading a book on the history of Yellow Freight. Why? Because it is fascinating. When I travel to Phoenix in a couple of months for spring break, I will be consumed by America West's operations. How many on this flight, what is the revenue, where are we (hopefully it will be a clear day) and I will chart our progress on the map in the America West magazine and calculate where we are.

One of the biggest thrills of my life (probably in the top 50) was flying home last spring at about 2am. Somewhere east of St. Louis the clouds parted and I looked below. I could make out a pattern of towns, connected by roads. I did a quick mental recall of the Southern Illinois map and realized those three fairly large communities down there were Flora, Olney, and Lawrenceville. I knew I was flying over the area that I grew up in, played basketball, fished, swam, etc.

The lines connecting the communities were the local highways and parallelling them were the rail lines.

To view our country from 35000 feet and think of the willpower and strength that makes our land so great is humbling.

So, while I enjoy watching a train go by, for me it far more than the paint on the engines.

Now, if there is a tower, and it has operating Armstrong levers and rods...that is a different story completely....I am foaming at the mouth!

ed

[Anonymous]

I'll never be a rail employee, but I like to know how things work. This ranges from watching dirty or clean ol' diesels on the head end of a train to the esoterica of the business.

There are times when I display a certain naivete and innocence on business and operations matters, and it's nice to have a professional reality check explaining why some of these notions don't or won't work.

The forums are big enough for everyone, and when they get dull- for me- it's OK for me to sit back and skip a few messages.

Erik

[eolafan]

Yes, you absolutely can be both. Since well maintained equipment (of just about ANY kind) will last longer and gain the owner a superior ROI (return on investment), then it stands to reason that a well maintained locomotive will last longer than a pprly maintained one. This is also true when you consider that washing the grime off of the body (which includes substances that will promote rust and thus require repair to exterior panels) will extend the useful life expectancy of that locomotive. For those not in tune with what I am trying to convey, how about thinking of whether when you pick up a new car from the Chevy dealership, do you ever wash it and clean it before trading it in years later...of coursse you do. WHY? Because it will last longer and get you a better trade in value when new car time comes again (all contibutors to good ROI). Only stand to reason, and so YES, we can be good railfans AND businesspeople at the same time.

[Anonymous]

OK, here comes the blunt guy...lol...

Railroading is like Green Eggs and Ham (and that isn't a half bad sandwich on a sidewall heater either, make my bread sourdough) No apologies to the Doc...

You just gotta "eat it and like it" as my dad used to say when we were kids...

Everybody picks the part they like best. They might never eat it all, or they might develop a taste for it.

I have done and continue to do all three things associated with railroads.

1. I am a railroader.

2. I am a railroad investor (but not in CN, presently)

3. I am [grit teeth] a railfan. [lol]

All three things have a lot to be said for them. As an investor I am always looking for that ROI and trying to understand how it is produced. UP's way of generating $5.05/share in 2003 "don't impress me much" (to borrow from Shania, and I'm definitely not a Country Music expert) and I understand it. I also remember well in the go-go days of the tech bubble how the talk in the crew room was how everyone was putting their 401k cash into the very highest risk categories to reap the best returns (can you say OOPS!). I can't say I'm a genius but I did buy Corning at 2 and it is now over 11(of course I didn't buy anywhere near enough) and I grabbed KCS after it split away from Janus at 7(now trading at 16+). Of course, for all the good stuff, I have lost cash elsewhere (I hope Bernie Ebbers does life). But my point is investing in railroads forces you to understand the biz.

As a railroader my aims are simpler, do my job properly and safely and come home with only one bag (grip) and not in a bag. It is a job, and like any job it has issues. Like any job worth doing it is worth doing it right. And that means you have to know how, inside and out.

The railfan in me is often in the background, and arises when I'm here on the list (incidentally, it's amazing how much participation you can get out of a Blackberry, thanks dear) or even at work checking out the units or consist of an oncoming train. The essence of it is remembering the good times like Thanksgiving time standing on a certain platform along the NYNH&H as a kid in the early PC era with EF-4s, GG-1s, FL-9s, washboard MUs, Alcos and pretty much any other imaginable power hammering by every five minutes or so with my dad, picking up my grandfather from his train from the City (NYC). Riding the Superchief, the California Zephyr and the Empire Builder (still have my GN Jr. Conductor Button someplace), The NYC Lakeshore with the cigar band E units and starched Pullman sheets...(ok, I'll quit with the good ol' days). If I didn't have this part, the other parts would frankly matter a whole lot less in the RR equation and ROI would become of even greater importance. Railfanning doesn't require much knowledge, but as Mark says, knowledge of how it works makes it more enjoyable, not less. Once you understand it, you may want to do as he and I and others have done and try a hand at it yourself. It ain't easy and you won't get rich, but, sometimes you gotta believe in something...

Over.

LC

[MP173]

Limited Clear:

I remember back in 1999 wondering "how do I get (invest) in the tech industry?" I just could figure it out. Luckily I did invest much, but there are folk around that got HAMMERED.

The one thing I did was buy QQQ (nasdeq 100) at $85 and rode it all the way down to $20. Now it is up to $40 or so.

My son got me "The Warren Buffett Way" a pretty good book about the Oracle of Omaha's methods of investment. Pretty good reading if you get the chance.

ed

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by n_stephenson

My opinion falls in with Mark's in that I was a railfan who had many questions. In order to satisfy my curiosity I do a lot reading in magazines, books, and this forum. And I also realized my childhood dream of working on the railroad even though I took a very strange and winding road to get to where I'm at now. When I get on a coal train, I wonder where the coal came from and where it is going. Right now, the coal that is mined out of Eastern Illinois that used to go to local power plants now has too high of a sulfur count, and is now sent up to Buffalo where it is put on a barge and shipped to China where they don't have as strict of regulations on air quality. When I talk to a dispatcher to get permission to open up a switch on the mainline, etc. I often wonder what it's like to sit behind the console. Anyways, I'm definitely a fan of the business and the hobby and I never tire of learning.

When I read anymore it seems to be railroad related. I am currently reading the first volume of Prof. Schweiterman's "When the Railroad Leaves Town" and Mike Bednar's most recent LV book that I got for Christmas. I also try to soak up what ever I can on railroads and yet I still have but a drop in the bucket compared to Mark (for example) on RR history which is a subject I hope to some day to be conversant. I'm still trying to figure out how they are "supposed" to run now...

I must say that having been a police dispatcher before (and yes I know there is a huge difference between that and RR DS) I have no desire to be on a console ever again. Besides, to be a DS, it is a job requirement to smoke like a chimney and drink massive amounts of bad coffee (I've tried the coffee at several DS centers). I don't smoke and I gave up coffee after being a beat cop for a couple years and discovering the secondary effects were more then I wanted to handle. So I guess that makes me unqualified for that job...

LC

[tree68]

As disappointing as it is at times to see a foamer's "really good idea" shot down by the reality of the business of railroading, I certainly can't dispute that reality.

That reality rears it's ugly head on my model railroad, though. I'm striving for an operation-based layout, and I've found myself a number of times asking if such-and-such makes sense from a business point of view. Admittedly, if it's something I really want to do, it gets rationalized and used, but the thinking is there....

[jwinter]

I certainly wasn't implying that there is a right way or a wrong way to be involved in railfanning. In fact diversity is what it's all about. I enjoy modeling and I've never saw a layout I didn't like. I may not build it like that, but that doesn't mean I don't like it. I was just interested to see what part of railfanning people out there like the most.

As I said, reading the many threads in this forum, I've learned plenty and have found some quite entertaining. I enjoy going on railfanning trips to various parts of this great country. I read books, watch videos, get magazines and belong to clubs. I enjoy learning about the operating side of railroading. Not so interested in the economic side, but understand it's importance. I know trains don't run for my entertainment, but to me it is entertainment.

I've certainly had many good experiences riding in cabs of everything from Dash-9's, Dash-2's, Geeps, and F Units. Was co-chair of the 1999 CNWHS annual conference. Was the local contact or organizer for a Union Pacific operation life saver passenger train trip in my city the summer of 2003 which included donations for a local food pantry.

Not bad for a guy who only follows railroading as a hobby. You don't have to know everything to have those doors open up, but it helps to not be afraid to get involved and know how to work with people. I've been fortunate to meet lots of good railroaders over the years.

Sometimes it just comes down to standing trackside and feeling the power of a trio of diesels powering up and the ground rubbling and the smell of diesel exhaust. To some that might be boring or disgusting. To me that is like walking through a rose garden.

[MP57313]

I am both. I enjoy railfanning trackside most anywhere, whenever I get time available. I'll take the trains as they come...clean, dirty, fast, slow, smoky, stalled...or not at all.
I also have an interest in abandoned rail lines, including "main lines", relocations, and even abandoned spurs/branches in some places.

I also invested in BNSF stock (ticker BNI) but have not bought others yet. I keep hearing negative things about UP (ticker UNP) but its stock is "up there". But the decision on whether to go railfanning is separate from investing.

It gets trickier when taxpayer funds become involved. In northern California, the former Northwestern Pacific has been closed for several years due to flood damage and other factors. Much as I would like to see the line reopen (from a railfan perspective) I'm not sure if it makes sense business-wise. The line needs several $ million in investment...where would the money come from? Private investors? (Not likely). More likely state of California grants or bonds. Can the state afford it? If the state issues bonds, how would the bonds be paid...surcharges on rail freight traffic on the line? If the surcharges weren't enough, then what...tap into other government monies? It is situations like this where I understand when the voters say "no" to the bonds that come up for a vote at election time.

MP

[oltmannd]

I'm a railfan because I smile when I see a train go by. It's been that way since I was 3 when my dad and I would "just happen" to wind up at the station while doing Saturday morning errands.

This was completely independent of any inkling that the trains were doing something useful.

It wasn't really until I got to college and rubbed shoulders with other fans/modlers/RR employees, that I became more interested interested in the "why" side of railroading.

That lead to a RR staff job after college and that really shifted my point of view and the business side of it tends to dominate my thinking now.

But, I still go out of my way to look at trains and I still smile when they go by!