NDG I was up that way in 1999 and walked to the End of Steel at the Shipyard in Hay River where the MacKenzie River Barges were hauled out and the Tugs maintained for downriver service on the MacKenzie. Fuel was the major shipment, other cargoes brought up by truck?? End of Steel, here. https://www.google.ca/maps/@60.8575384,-115.7344371,261m/data=!3m1!1e3 From this location a car could travel by rail to Florida, and Mexico. Whilst I was was strolling North, swatting Mosquitoes and Bull Dogs, I noticed a train had been right up to the Shipyard recently as grass and brush crushed and broken. The fuel transfer point to barges is about 1/2 mile to South. I asked, a friend who lived within sight of the track, and he said a Passenger Train ( Full of Foamers ) had been up the month before and they brought the train right to the Shipyard. CNR was NOT operating the line, then. Switch Locks still CNR. They Wyed the train South of town, the tail of which once went on to Pine Point on the Galena Central. Wye, Hay River. Tail once went East to Pine Point Mine. https://www.google.ca/maps/@60.7478428,-115.8626183,5228m/data=!3m1!1e3
In 1999 the line would have been known as the Mackenzie Northern Railway, operated first by RaiLink and then RailAmerica.
Not much has changed north of High Level since you visited there, when I was last up there several years ago it was still the same 85 lb jointed rail atop weathered ties. Lots of timber bridges too.
One of them burned in a wildfire this past summer. It has been replaced with more durable materials:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/cn-rail-bridge-steen-river-alberta-1.5213471
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/steen-river-bridge-1.5239413
Station Name Sign "Great Slave" is where yard limits (now known as 'subdivision track' or CROR 105 territory) begin just south of Hay River:
http://www.cwrailway.ca/cnrha.ca/Timetables%2007/Edmonton/Meander%20River.pdf
NDG Ore went to CM&S Smelter @ Tadanac/Trail B C. in special cars. Once lettered Slave Lake Division below CN Logo. http://www.cnrha.ca/sites/default/files/styles/node_gallery_display/public/node_gallery/img_345091.jpg?itok=HWmdam_h Slave Lake Division cars on Head End. Train No 72 leaving Crowsnest. ABS Signal to left. http://cranbrookhistory.com/image_view.php?ID=38291
From what I have heard at least some of those cars ran their last miles in limestone service between Edmonton and Cadomin, AB, on the Coal Branch. Apparently they kept their cast-iron brakeshoes right to the end.
NDG I swam in GSL on the Longest Day.
When I was up in that area the water was a little hard for swimming, even if I had wanted to brave the cold. I don't imagine it was very warm even in summer!
NDG As the Internet has since arrived, we are now apprised of new data almost daily. This photo is the Passenger Extra to Hay River @ Edmonton back in '99. http://www.railpictures.ca/upload/via-fp9a-units-6304-and-6302-prepare-to-depart-from-edmontons-via-station-with-a-charter-train-to-hay-river-in-the-north-west-territories Wonder if the Foamers braved the Bugs and the Swamps and had photo runbys?? AFAIK the North End never saw Steam nor Passenger Service. AFAIK. When inaugurated, the Slave Lake Line used CNR GP9s which were modified to run with their SHORT Hoods as Front. Would like to see more action shots of the Hay River Special.
I've never seen any other shots of the 1999 trip, but I will ask around. There's a couple folks kicking around the APRA who worked for RaiLink/RailAmerica around that time.
That was not the only passenger train to have operated over the GSLR, back around 1985-1990 there was a similar trip, but it was composed of private cars and hauled by CN freight power. After the GSLR they took the ex-NAR mainline to Grande Prairie (was this the last train through the Smoky River valley?) made a side trip to Jasper via the Alberta Resources Railway (today's Grande Cache Sub), and then headed west to Prince George via Dawson Creek and Chetwynd before going south to Vancouver on BC Rail. I believe theirs was the only passenger train to ever operate over the ARR, except perhaps a inspection special shortly after construction.
I have a old issue of Trains Magazine with a article chronicling that trip (was the author J. David Ingles?), but it is locked away in the vault right now so I am just going from memory. I'll try to dig it out tomorrow and have a look.
The article also mentioned a shuttle service that CN operated between Hay River and Pine Point some years earlier for the Arctic Winter Games.
NDG Can 6-axle power run to Hay River??
No. They are not allowed north of Roma Jct.
http://www.cwrailway.ca/cnrha.ca/Timetables%2007/Edmonton/Manning.pdf
Combining this with CN's banishment of non-turbocharged EMD units from western Canadian road service (fire hazards), the only units currently allowed on the ex-GLSR are GP40-2's. This is their last stronghold on CN, we only have about 40 or 50 left on the roster as I write this, down from nearly 300 at one time. Their days of powering mainline hotshots or even tonnage trains are long over.
Several of the ex-GO Transit units have bits of visible green paint, and a couple still have the high-speed gearing stencilled underneath the cab numbers (75 60-17), though I don't believe they are still capable of 75 mph. I would hope not on the GLSR!
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3801498
NDG We used to run from Colvalli to Golden 166.7 Miles on the old Lake Windermere Sub @ 20 mph, but handled 10000 tons in 156 or more 40 ft. cars. Tonnage for Five 5 Small, 20 Axles. Leakage and Wheelage held her back. Then another 25 into town Cab Hop, or with Tadanac Metal Flats, tanks and the like for CM&S. Thank You.
The regular freight from Roma Jct to High Level (L532/L533) sometimes approaches that size in busy times, and I have seen as many as six GP40-2's on it. None of CN's have dynamic brakes, which makes train handling on a mixed lumber and grain train dicey on the undulating territory up there.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
SD70Dude SD60MAC9500 How’s the Sultran traffic faring these days? Sultran is doing quite well, and they finished replacing their old fleet of steel bathtub gondolas with aluminium ones last year. The 'new' cars are actually ex-coal cars from various previous owners in the U.S, notably Detroit Edison. A new solid sulphur production plant opened recently near Scotford, northeast of Edmonton. They receive liquid sulphur in trucks and process it into solid prills. Well, they aren't really prills, true prill towers are no longer legal to construct, on account of environmental regulations and the amount of dust they produce. It seems that most sulphur is shipped in bulk solid form in unit trains now, not nearly as much moves in tank cars. Fort McMurray is one of the few places that still ships liquid sulphur in tank cars. The other major liquid movement out here is a unit train that originates at Ram River, AB, and runs all the way to a chemical plant in Lee Creek, North Carolina, on the Atlantic coast. Sultran itself only handles bulk solid sulphur to the two terminals in Vancouver.
SD60MAC9500 How’s the Sultran traffic faring these days?
How’s the Sultran traffic faring these days?
Sultran is doing quite well, and they finished replacing their old fleet of steel bathtub gondolas with aluminium ones last year. The 'new' cars are actually ex-coal cars from various previous owners in the U.S, notably Detroit Edison.
A new solid sulphur production plant opened recently near Scotford, northeast of Edmonton. They receive liquid sulphur in trucks and process it into solid prills. Well, they aren't really prills, true prill towers are no longer legal to construct, on account of environmental regulations and the amount of dust they produce.
It seems that most sulphur is shipped in bulk solid form in unit trains now, not nearly as much moves in tank cars. Fort McMurray is one of the few places that still ships liquid sulphur in tank cars. The other major liquid movement out here is a unit train that originates at Ram River, AB, and runs all the way to a chemical plant in Lee Creek, North Carolina, on the Atlantic coast.
Sultran itself only handles bulk solid sulphur to the two terminals in Vancouver.
I saw pics a year or two ago with the ex DTE hoppers being used in sulfur service, was somewhat surprised. I wondered where the fleet would end up as DTE will only have one coal fired plant left in a few years. Everything else is getting converted to NG or demolished.
Deggesty CSSHEGEWISCH SD70Dude Also, a bit of trivia, our computer system has a limitation of six characters for a commodity description, and it is all caps. The yellow stuff is spelled "SULPHR". The tech staff obviously never considered the legitimate alternate spelling for the substance that fits in a six-letter restriction. My thought was, "Just use the common USA spelling"--or is that heresy north of the border?
CSSHEGEWISCH SD70Dude Also, a bit of trivia, our computer system has a limitation of six characters for a commodity description, and it is all caps. The yellow stuff is spelled "SULPHR". The tech staff obviously never considered the legitimate alternate spelling for the substance that fits in a six-letter restriction.
SD70Dude Also, a bit of trivia, our computer system has a limitation of six characters for a commodity description, and it is all caps. The yellow stuff is spelled "SULPHR".
Also, a bit of trivia, our computer system has a limitation of six characters for a commodity description, and it is all caps. The yellow stuff is spelled "SULPHR".
My thought was, "Just use the common USA spelling"--or is that heresy north of the border?
We would rather misspell something than butcher the Queen's English with wretched Yankee drivel!
Johnny
Open top. No covers at all. CN tried fibreglass lids on woodchip cars decades ago and found they did not work well, as they were too light and could blow off at track speed.
None of the sulphur loadouts spray the loaded cars either.
I suppose there aren't enough sulphur trains for the dust to be a major problem, or perhaps the towns in BC's lower mainland just haven't noticed it. Their complaints about coal dust are what caused the western Canadian mines to start spraying the cars, and CP even ended up installing a sprayer on their mainline between Sicamous and Kamloops, on Notch Hill:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZCq0rIwZk8
Our operating manual still contains instructions specifying that dust-producing commodities such as coal and sulphur must not be marshalled ahead of sensitive traffic (exposed vehicles, trailers, etc) in trains. But as the dust-producing commodities usually move in their own unit trains, and we ship very few carloads of "sensitive" products I have never actually seen this restriction come into play.
SD70DudeSultran is doing quite well, and they finished replacing their old fleet of steel bathtub gondolas with aluminium ones last year. The 'new' cars are actually ex-coal cars from various previous owners in the U.S, notably Detroit Edison.
Are the gondolas open-top, or do they have covers or something else to control sulfur dust.
Big thanks for that Dude. That entire segment of the country I know really well and was wondering how the railroading has fared. It's better than I had hoped.
There is a feasibility study going on right now regarding opening up the former Pine Point Mine as terrific new ore reserves have been outlined.
The line is fairly busy all the way from Edmonton to Roma Jct (just west of Peace River, where the Great Slave Railway began). There are several large grain and crude oil terminals in the Peace River area, and pulp and lumber mills at Slave Lake, High Prairie, north of Peace River (Daishowa) and High Level provide a lot of traffic.
Viterra opened a new grain terminal at Grimshaw just a couple years ago, which is on the other side of the infamous Peace River Hill (long 2.5% grades on both sides). They take a 100+ car spot, and the loaded train must be doubled from Grimshaw to Judah, on the other side of the valley (this is where the runaway caboose started from).
Between Edmonton and Roma Jct there are about 2 trains each way per day. Between Roma Jct and High Level it falls to one at most, in the past this run was handled by an assigned crew who ran on alternating days each way, working 6 days a week.
There are roadswitcher crews based at Smith, McLennan (many jobs), Roma Jct (2 assignments) and High Level to perform local switching.
The only freight traffic left north of High Level is northbound fuel going to Hay River, for the supply barges on the Mackenzie River. This line sees 3 trains each way per week at most, and in slow times they may only run once or twice a week. Short trains too, usually less than 20 tank cars. On a few occasions the crew ran north light engine, and then returned light engine the next day.
The Meander River Sub is a long, bleak, boring run, 190 miles of 25 mph track, with no enroute switching and muskeg as the only "scenery".
One warm line, built by the hand of Pearson, reaching for the Beaufort Sea. But it never even got close.
Nice to see trains moving in the Great White North!
What is happening on CN's MacKenzie River, Great Slave Lake and Pine Point Route these days?
Main Line to the Beaufort Sea.
Thank You.
SD70Dude CN bought back all the remaining branch lines across northern Alberta during 2006 and 2007. RailAmerica's Lakeland & Waterways (Edmonton to the large Alberta Pacific mill north of Boyle) and Cando's Athabasca Northern (Boyle to Lynton, just south of Fort McMurray) were two of the purchases. Cando had originally acquired its line with the intent of selling it for scrap, only after the purchase did they realize they could make more money operating the line instead. CN has poured hundreds of millions of dollars into track repairs across northern Alberta over the last 10 years, replacing ancient 85 lb jointed rail with heavy new welded rail, and adding mountain rock on top of the old local pit-run "ballast". Currently there is about one train per day each way between Edmonton and Fort McMurray, L556 and L557. There is a local crew based at Boyle (L537) to perform local switching and run up the branchline to the Alpac mill, working about every other day. Unit petroleum coke trains (C756 and C757) from Prince Rupert to Fort McMurray run as needed, usually a couple times a week. The coke is trucked from various oilsands plants to the transloading yard at Lynton. Traffic across Alberta is down, in line with the oil industry, but the railroads are still busy out here.
CN bought back all the remaining branch lines across northern Alberta during 2006 and 2007. RailAmerica's Lakeland & Waterways (Edmonton to the large Alberta Pacific mill north of Boyle) and Cando's Athabasca Northern (Boyle to Lynton, just south of Fort McMurray) were two of the purchases. Cando had originally acquired its line with the intent of selling it for scrap, only after the purchase did they realize they could make more money operating the line instead.
CN has poured hundreds of millions of dollars into track repairs across northern Alberta over the last 10 years, replacing ancient 85 lb jointed rail with heavy new welded rail, and adding mountain rock on top of the old local pit-run "ballast".
Currently there is about one train per day each way between Edmonton and Fort McMurray, L556 and L557. There is a local crew based at Boyle (L537) to perform local switching and run up the branchline to the Alpac mill, working about every other day.
Unit petroleum coke trains (C756 and C757) from Prince Rupert to Fort McMurray run as needed, usually a couple times a week. The coke is trucked from various oilsands plants to the transloading yard at Lynton.
Traffic across Alberta is down, in line with the oil industry, but the railroads are still busy out here.
SD70Dude,
I heard the oil patch was or is on a downward spiral. How has this affected frieght service up to Fort Mac? Did CN Rail get back to buying that section back?
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