Ed, your post is misleading to a degree that's idiotic and you know it.
tree68 7j43k Obviously, money well spent. Because 2000 lives a year would be saved. Unless someone drives off the overpass...
7j43k Obviously, money well spent. Because 2000 lives a year would be saved.
Unless someone drives off the overpass...
No, no. We'll put those rubber mats on the ground, like they do now at children's plalygrounds.
At a slight upcharge. Or is that "uptax"?
Ed
7j43kObviously, money well spent. Because 2000 lives a year would be saved.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
There are about 200,000 grade crossings in the US.
It costs about $40 million to do a grade separation.
To eliminate all grade crossings (including North Dakota) would cost:
$8 trillion.
Obviously, money well spent. Because 2000 lives a year would be saved.
The individual cost per citizen (kids and old people and etc. included) would be about a quarter million dollars each. If we sold 30 year bonds to pay for it, then it would only cost each citizen $10,000 a year. Plus interest. So much for college, little tyke.
So. Americans! Stop yer whining and cough it up. It's fer a good cause and it's only money.
Plus. The EUROPEANS would do it. THEY love taxes. The nameless guy from North Dakota says so.
But WAIT! How much would it cost to train tax-hating Americans to safely cross railroad tracks? We could make an educational DVD (or whatever it is you kids watch, now) and mail it to everyone. We could also drastically increase traffic violation fines for being stupid with your car at a grade crossing. And make a PROFIT (take THAT, you European tax lovers!).
Dream on, friend.
BaltACD charlie hebdo Oh it's never the fault of the railroads' faulty equipment. On here it's always the fault of drivers. And nobody here wants to see proper separation of roads from railroads, even though conditions are very different today compared with 100-150 years ago. Oh, too much money? Human lives are what, chopped liver? Feel free to bankroll all the grade separation projects you want. Railroads have been working for decades to eliminate road crossings at grade. Local governments have also been working to create more road crossings at grade during the same period besides not wanting to fund grade separation projects. Local government feature their constituents are no more than chopped liver and don't want to spend what is required to protect them.
charlie hebdo Oh it's never the fault of the railroads' faulty equipment. On here it's always the fault of drivers. And nobody here wants to see proper separation of roads from railroads, even though conditions are very different today compared with 100-150 years ago. Oh, too much money? Human lives are what, chopped liver?
And nobody here wants to see proper separation of roads from railroads, even though conditions are very different today compared with 100-150 years ago. Oh, too much money? Human lives are what, chopped liver?
Feel free to bankroll all the grade separation projects you want. Railroads have been working for decades to eliminate road crossings at grade. Local governments have also been working to create more road crossings at grade during the same period besides not wanting to fund grade separation projects. Local government feature their constituents are no more than chopped liver and don't want to spend what is required to protect them.
... and all of that stems from the fact that no one in the U.S. wants to pay taxes. You get what you pay for, and what we got is mediocre infrastructure and mostly crappy public transportation.
Ride a train in Europe and you’ll notice there are hardly any grade crossings. Ride a train in the U.S and sit anywhere near the head end, and you’ll hear the engineer whistling for grade crossings nearly continuously, even in sparsely populated states like my native North Dakota. It’s utterly ridiculous.
charlie hebdoThe true greatness of this county was built by bold vision, huge infrastructure projects as recently as the Interstates and labor, not by timidity and folks unwilling to spend a penny not of direct benefit or profit to themselves. Nor was it built by bean counters and CEOs looking only at next quarter's report.
That is the most relevent of statements.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
charlie hebdo It sure wasn't built by little naysayers.
It sure wasn't built by little naysayers.
I am reminded of that every day, when I read the newspaper.
charlie hebdo The true greatness of this county was built by bold vision, huge infrastructure projects...
The true greatness of this county was built by bold vision, huge infrastructure projects...
Funny how all of those projects were done before there existed a word for them: infrastructure.
Cheops: "I want a big pointy infrastructure built for me when I die."
Leland Stanford: "We're gonna build us some infrastructure halfway across the country."
Goethals: "This canal is gonna be one fine piece of infrastructure."
Many people: "I sure hope the infrastructure doesn't give way, or we'll all drown."
The true greatness of this county was built by bold vision, huge infrastructure projects as recently as the Interstates and labor, not by timidity and folks unwilling to spend a penny not of direct benefit or profit to themselves. Nor was it built by bean counters and CEOs looking only at next quarter's report.
charlie hebdo This could be a pretty good infrastructure program.
This could be a pretty good infrastructure program.
Even better than Calfornia High Speed Rail?
Wow!
charlie hebdo It's going to have to come from the federal government one way or another, more than the current feeble program. This could be a pretty good infrastructure program. Both parties claim to favor infrastructure investment, including the current occupant, but it gets short shrift. Perhaps politicians need to be shamed?
It's going to have to come from the federal government one way or another, more than the current feeble program. This could be a pretty good infrastructure program. Both parties claim to favor infrastructure investment, including the current occupant, but it gets short shrift. Perhaps politicians need to be shamed?
Why should government intervene to eliminate all life's boo-boos? Has it not occured to you that, the more one looks to government to solve all of life's unpleasantness and risk, the more power you give that government? And when the government runs almost everything, it won't need you...or me...any more, neither our support nor our criticism. Our votes will be moot.
Here's a thought; do a better job teaching, and reminding, people that there is risk in life, and that sometimes the dice fall against you. This increases geometrically with each careless, uneducated, and hurried thought or action. Why we should demand that our government prevent our very living, good and bad, is beyond me.
charlie hebdo Oh it's never the fault of the railroads' faulty equipment. On here it's always the fault of drivers.
Oh it's never the fault of the railroads' faulty equipment. On here it's always the fault of drivers.
Credit is usually given where credit (or blame) is due. The instances of people ignoring existing crossing protection seem to outnumber (by a large margin) the failure of crossing protection equipment, however.
charlie hebdoAnd nobody here wants to see proper separation of roads from railroads, even though conditions are very different today compared with 100-150 years ago. Oh, too much money? Human lives are what, chopped liver?
As Balt pointed out, it costs money for a grade separation - they usually take a lot of real estate that people aren't willing to give up.
Closing crossings isn't always feasible - people aren't usually willing to give up their favorite road.
I wouldn't say no one here wants to see grade separations. I seriously doubt anyone here likes to read of grade crossing incidents. But until the multitudinous issues preventing grade crossing separations are worked out, they'll continue to exist.
Try thinking of the grade crossings in your area, and consider what it would take to eliminate them on an individual basis, or collectively. How much of that cost would come out of the railroad's pocket (and become a consideration for even keeping the line open)? How much are you willing to pay out of your own pocket (property taxes or increases in rent) to see it happen?
charlie hebdoOh it's never the fault of the railroads' faulty equipment. On here it's always the fault of drivers. And nobody here wants to see proper separation of roads from railroads, even though conditions are very different today compared with 100-150 years ago. Oh, too much money? Human lives are what, chopped liver?
charlie hebdoAnd nobody here wants to see proper separation of roads from railroads
What data do you have to support this statement?
Sorry, the devil made me do it.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
BaltACDthey are subject to accidental occurrence's that can claim their lives - walking across the floor, tripping on one's own feet - falling and striking one's head upon the surface one is walking upon also has a fatality rate.
NO, Anyone with at least half a brain should realize that the ground is hard and avoid falling on it. We need to devise a set of rules to protect against this.
It isn't going to be any one thing, but multiple factors that multiply the probability of the unwanted events.
Being in a hurry, distracted, angry, desperate for some reason, poor judgement, sleep apnea's effects upon waking,...the list must have 20-30 possible causes for accidents at rail crossings.
Same poop, different day.
Also throw in that most people that are walking today have their faces imbedded into a cellphone. Then throw in most cars are so soundproofed to the outside that it takes almost an explosion outside to make anything heard.
Then throw in quiet zones and other ideas implemented by NIMBY's and political leaders that wanted to make those nasty trains quiet at night. My boss did a sound meter test on 2 of our trucks our old spotter an 84 KW and one of the 2019 Volvos we just got at full load doing 55. The KW was over 90DB the Volvo was less than 50 see why people are not aware of their enviroment.
BaltACDAs long as humans move about their enviornment they are subject to accidental occurrence's that can claim their lives - walking across the floor, tripping on one's own feet - falling and striking one's head upon the surface one is walking upon also has a fatality rate.
Exactly. Excellent point.
York1 John
I asked my doctor if I gave up delicious food and all alcohol, would I live longer? He said, "No, but it will seem longer."
Electroliner 1935 I get the expectation that the number should go toward zero, but from what is reported seems to indicate the opposite. The number of idiots involved in stupid accidents seems to be increasing and that worries me and I think many others. Would that the expectation that it would go toward zero but why then does Metra have more train-people fatalities than in the past?
Considering that current US population is approximately 327 Million - and that the travels of the that population creates billions if not trillions or quadrillion of incident opportunities on a annual basis I would poist that the number is about as near zero as would be statistically and humanly possible. We look at a incident as being horrific, however in doing so we also overlook the millions of times that the particular hazard has been safely negotiated by others, if not by the incident individuals on this particular trip that ened up in the accident.
As long as humans move about their enviornment they are subject to accidental occurrence's that can claim their lives - walking across the floor, tripping on one's own feet - falling and striking one's head upon the surface one is walking upon also has a fatality rate.
Electroliner 1935Would that the expectation that it would go toward zero but why then does Metra have more train-people fatalities than in the past?
I would opine that it's due to increasing distraction, both from cell phones, etc, and just plain life. People seem to have a lot on their minds...
Electroliner 1935 7j43k I think most humans ARE designed for that, being as most humans survive these threats to reproduce. A very small fraction do not. And a fraction of those consequently do not reproduce. This is called natural selection. Over time, the percentage of humans who cannot deal with these threats will drop even lower--approaching zero. I get the expectation that the number should go toward zero, but from what is reported seems to indicate the opposite. The number of idiots involved in stupid accidents seems to be increasing and that worries me and I think many others. Would that the expectation that it would go toward zero but why then does Metra have more train-people fatalities than in the past?
7j43k I think most humans ARE designed for that, being as most humans survive these threats to reproduce. A very small fraction do not. And a fraction of those consequently do not reproduce. This is called natural selection. Over time, the percentage of humans who cannot deal with these threats will drop even lower--approaching zero.
I think most humans ARE designed for that, being as most humans survive these threats to reproduce. A very small fraction do not. And a fraction of those consequently do not reproduce. This is called natural selection. Over time, the percentage of humans who cannot deal with these threats will drop even lower--approaching zero.
I get the expectation that the number should go toward zero, but from what is reported seems to indicate the opposite. The number of idiots involved in stupid accidents seems to be increasing and that worries me and I think many others. Would that the expectation that it would go toward zero but why then does Metra have more train-people fatalities than in the past?
A good question!
One could almost suspect people were stupider than in the "olden days".
Another possibililty is that the population of humans intersecting railroad crossings has increased, thus enlarging the selection pool.
Certainly, people couldn't REALLY be getting stupider. Could they?
I have seen a number of people drive through red lights and stop signs as if they don't apply to them. Perhaps that is how they view railroad crossings. One could wonder how they arrived at that opinion.
[quote user="charlie hebdo"]In most industrialized nations, there is much better separation between roads and rails. Why not here? [/quote]
Cha Ching! Nobody wants to be on the financial hook to bring it off.
In my little segment of the world CSX has two road crossings on the Old Main Line Sub that could easily be closed. Main Street in downtown Sykesville and Gaither Road about 1.5 miles West of Main Street. MD Route 32 crosses over the railroad on a overhead bridge about 200 yards East of Main Street. There are reasonable routes from Route 32 that give access to all the properties that are served by both Main Street and Gaither Road.
To date there has been no will to close either crossing. The Main Street crossing was functionally out of service for a year or more following the bridge across the Patapsco River (and large segments of the Old Main Line) being washed away in Hurricane Agnes in June of 1972.
charlie hebdoIn most industrialized nations, there is much better separation between roads and rails. Why not here?
Exhibit A: Ford Pinto.
Many railroads did make an effort at grade separation, witness the NY Central and it's water level route (now the Chicago Line). There aren't a lot of grade crossings on that line, at least in NY state.
Lesser used lines, and lesser used crossings, probably weren't seen as economically justifiable.
I've seen urban crossings where going over, or under, the tracks would have rendered some real estate less usable. Lots of variables to consider.
In most industrialized nations, there is much better separation between roads and rails. Why not here?
And your understanding of Darwin and evolutionary biology is very simplistic and flawed, to the point of being comical.
7j43kAnd I would also like to correct another error: Humans don't need to "dodge" X thousand ton trains. The trains' actions are very predictable. With a bare minimum of thought, a human can easily avoid the need to dodge a train.
Alas, humans all too often do choose to "dodge" trains, instead of waiting patiently for them to pass. Hurry, hurry, hurry.
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