Operating Income GAAP and Margin:DL: 2,128 (17.0% margin)WN: 968 (16.4%)AS: 364 (15.9%)UA: 1,472 (12.9%)B6: 250 (11.9%)AA: 1,153 (9.6%)
Operating margins in other industries are not the same as operating ratios in the rail industry. Google searches, as well as on this site, make it difficult for this non-expert to understand the differences between the two metrics. Airlines are generally healthy if their margins consistently run better than 10%. Percents below 6 or 7 are big warning signs.
Can anyone provide a link listing what is included in operating ratios? It will be much appreciated. As well as an explanation why railroads do not just use profit margins. Thanks.
Operating Ratio plus Margin equals Gross Revenue
GR - operating ratio = margin
GR - margin = operating ratio
Mac
ROBIN LUETHEBut I doubt that operating ratio of say 60% results in 40% profit for the stockholders of the RR.
If you want a more authoritative explanation, pm JPS1.
ICC statistics from 1988 do you any good?
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.l0078502028&view=1up&seq=40
ROBIN LUETHE Can anyone provide a link listing what is included in operating ratios?
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/operatingratio.asp
JPS1 Also, be sure to read the last section that deals with the limits of OR. Many of the forum participants that hang their hat on OR never seem to get around to explaining its limitations. And be sure to watch the video. It is a good summary of OR.
Most forum members would not know or care about the OR if it weren't for all the railroad executives who hang THEIR hats on it.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
SD70DudeMost forum members would not know or care about the OR if it weren't for all the railroad executives who hang THEIR hats on it.
They teach in both basic Accounting and Finance courses not to over rely on OR as the sole measure but to combine it with other measures. I am pretty sure the railroad Executives are smart enough to do that even though we might not gather that from investor calls or their public statements. Any single financial measure like OR can be manipulated, hence it makes sense to always use a full suite of financial measures in order to reveal if any manipulation is going on.
In regards to manipulating financial stats, you might get away with it in an annual report to shareholders as there the cost of manipulation is potentially a civil suit. Do it on a form 10K and your definitely getting charged with at least a Felony, if not more by the SEC.
For 2018 UP reported 2.2% dividends, 62% operating ratio - 38% surplus. So did all of the 36% between dividends and operating expenses go to paying off debt. I doubt it. Did greedy executives pocket it - again I doubt it. Did it go to capital expenses? That is a possibility. Another possibility is reserves for depreciation. Maybe stock buy-backs, although I have not read anything about this. Perhaps this is worthy a Trains magazine article.
ROBIN LUETHE For 2018 UP reported 2.2% dividends, 62% operating ratio - 38% surplus. So did all of the 36% between dividends and operating expenses go to paying off debt. I doubt it. Did greedy executives pocket it - again I doubt it. Did it go to capital expenses? That is a possibility. Another possibility is reserves for depreciation. Maybe stock buy-backs, although I have not read anything about this. Perhaps this is worthy a Trains magazine article.
That's not how OR works.
To get to net income, there are other expenses such as interest expense and taxes that are subtracted from operating income.
Here is a link to UP’s 2nd Qtr Earnings Presentation. Slide 17 has a simplified income statement.
https://www.up.com/cs/groups/public/@uprr/@investor/documents/investordocuments/pdf_up_2q19_er_slides.pdf
KG - thanks for that link. I have summarized the statement below, and have made a few (probably naive) comments. I do not have a comprehensive background in RR economics to offer more authoritative comments, but think my questions are at least appropriate.
Union Pacific 2nd quarter reporting (in $billions, rounded off to nearest tenth)
Operating revenue $5.6
Operating expenses 3.2
Interest and taxes .8 (.75 actually)
Net income 1.6
Income as a percent of revenue 26%
Debt $27.7 (!!)
-------
actual dollars:
Share price, about $177, dividend, about $2 (so would that be $8 or so per year)
Share buyback, also about $2 per share, so $8 per year.
Is that return to stockholders of about $16, or almost 10%??
Comments (preliminary, and as I have warned, possibly naive)
That seems like an awful lot of debt - is that typical for railroads?
26% net income seems a little high to me for companies enjoying as much legislative protections as railroads enjoy.
ROBIN LUETHE Share buyback, also about $2 per share, so $8 per year. Is that return to stockholders of about $16, or almost 10%?? Comments (preliminary, and as I have warned, possibly naive) That seems like an awful lot of debt - is that typical for railroads?
They used a lot of borrowed money to buy back those shares.
Jeff
Robin. Using your data, I came up with an operating ratio of 57.1% which might be low.
I rounded to the nearest tenth, and was not concerned with OR. Wanted to get a more general picture of overall financial results.
Sorry: I thought you were interested in operating ratios since that is the title of your thread.
UP's OR was actually 59.6, a record for them.
jeffhergert ROBIN LUETHE Share buyback, also about $2 per share, so $8 per year. Is that return to stockholders of about $16, or almost 10%?? Comments (preliminary, and as I have warned, possibly naive) That seems like an awful lot of debt - is that typical for railroads? They used a lot of borrowed money to buy back those shares. Jeff
That's a recurring theme with the PSR roads. As profits go up, so does the amount of long-term debt.
I'm not an accountant, but to the layman's eye that sort of arrangement sure looks like a shell game of siphoning money.
Several railroads have touted for several years that they are returning more than 100% of net income to shareholders via dividends and share buybacks. Typically they are borrowing the money to make that possible, driving debt up to rations of 2.5 times annual earnings or more. As long as revenue keeps increasI gotta and they can make annual interest payments, things are hunky dory. If the economy has a prolonged downturn and revenue drops, the entity could then have a hard choice of cutting the dividend or cutting the capital budget in order to make the interest payments. That is the tightrope of having the right level of debt. As with any company - not just railroads - over-leveraging (high debt load) can cause problems in tough economic times.
Thanks for all the posts and replies. My reason for posting was doubts that OR provided a generally accurage picture of what is happening with railroad economics. That UP quarterly report after summarizing provided a better understanding.
It probably has been reflected in Trains' stories. But 26% return on stock prices usually (not always) represents some sort of monopoly power. Or in this case maybe shedding all but the most profitable sections of a business. Not really acceptable for a railroad, although that obviously would require further discussion and qualifications. That debt load is also worrisome.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.