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Rock Island line change Iowa

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Posted by CNW_4009 on Wednesday, July 17, 2019 5:23 PM
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Posted by jeffhergert on Wednesday, July 17, 2019 11:42 AM

mudchicken

(1) They had surveyors back then. Some pretty good ones.

(2) CRIP, CNW & MILW were all fighting over traffic between Omaha & Chicago. MILW was also busy with route upgrades. The old 1866-69 CRIP / Ms & Mo route was a mess, but had the attraction of the  checkerboard land grant. (CB&Q and CNW were hardly resting on their laurels either)

-M&M had some interesting gyrations caused by some familiar names (including Durant at his squirrelly worst, playing games with grant money that burned M&M badly... M&M was independent at first as opposed to some of the other land grant chartered railroads accross Iowa. CRIP came across as a "white knight" when things got bad. True to form, CRIP was the long way to Omaha and everywhere else. ) 

(3) in the 1950's, CRIP had access to the USGS 1900-1937 topo efforts. (Plane Table & Aledaide plus some aerials. (Plus tons of trial & error engineering work still in the drawers at the division level & corporate/ Chicago level.)

(4) Passenger trains were flagging, time freights were in demand and trucking was getting all kinds of help.

(5) In the case of CRIP, they combined new track laced with trackage of other railroads (a lot of CNW branches comes to mind) to come up with the new route. The ICC Finance Docket for this is some interesting reading.

(got into this last year with retracing remnants of the original 1868 CRIP line that parallels the BNSF/MILW Bayard Sub.)

(*)  Jeff: The CNW west of Carroll IA was one of those line changes? That alignment changed a bunch.

 

The RI used a portion of the CGW main line on the west end of the line change.  The RI dispatched it.  I was told when IAIS was making an inspection trip prior to taking over from IRRC, their people were travelling in a hi-rail truck.  They were approaching the old CGW jct point.  Everyone in the hi-rail was looking at something along the ROW when someone looked up and noticed a rail had been pulled up.  Investigating the cause, it was determined that the CNW still owned the former CGW trackage and had pulled the rail out.  There was some last minute dealing that resulted in the sale of land from the CNW.

West of Carroll, over the hill at Arcadia was a big change.  You can still see a lot of the old ROW if you know where to look.  (That culvert I mentioned was on the original line on the east side of Arcadia.)  The new (current) line misses the actual town of Arcadia.  The original alignment went through the town.  The change, going west, begins about mp265.5, at the west end of the control point of Peters.  It ends about mp270, where there is a set of block signals next to US 30.  On the west side of the old ROW if you look off US 30 you can see a bit of grading in the side of the small hills and a culvert.  Part of the ROW is used as an access road from town to the sewage lagoons.

A history I read said Durant was promoting both the M&M and the CNW predecessor at the same time.  He would direct resources to which ever line received more subscriptions of stock or gifts of land from people on the intended routes.

Jeff 

Jeff  

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Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, July 16, 2019 11:18 PM

(1) They had surveyors back then. Some pretty good ones.

(2) CRIP, CNW & MILW were all fighting over traffic between Omaha & Chicago. MILW was also busy with route upgrades. The old 1866-69 CRIP / Ms & Mo route was a mess, but had the attraction of the  checkerboard land grant. (CB&Q and CNW were hardly resting on their laurels either)

-M&M had some interesting gyrations caused by some familiar names (including Durant at his squirrelly worst, playing games with grant money that burned M&M badly... M&M was independent at first as opposed to some of the other land grant chartered railroads accross Iowa. CRIP came across as a "white knight" when things got bad. True to form, CRIP was the long way to Omaha and everywhere else. ) 

(3) in the 1950's, CRIP had access to the USGS 1900-1937 topo efforts. (Plane Table & Aledaide plus some aerials. (Plus tons of trial & error engineering work still in the drawers at the division level & corporate/ Chicago level.)

(4) Passenger trains were flagging, time freights were in demand and trucking was getting all kinds of help.

(5) In the case of CRIP, they combined new track laced with trackage of other railroads (a lot of CNW branches comes to mind) to come up with the new route. The ICC Finance Docket for this is some interesting reading.

(got into this last year with retracing remnants of the original 1868 CRIP line that parallels the BNSF/MILW Bayard Sub.)

(*)  Jeff: The CNW west of Carroll IA was one of those line changes? That alignment changed a bunch.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by jeffhergert on Tuesday, July 16, 2019 9:20 PM

Murphy Siding

     I see what you guys are saying, but it's not like they were laying out a rail line through the mountains of Iowa.

 

Not mountains but many hills, especially in southwest Iowa.  They tried to follow the lay of the land to avoid a lot of expensive cutting and filling when laying out their track.  

Across Iowa on the UP, exCNW, there's at least 6 places where they either changed the line or built a cut-off.  If you look in the right place you can still see remnants of the original right of way.  One good one is in a field where the land owner removed the embankment, but left the concrete culvert in place over a small creek.

Jeff

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Posted by Ed Kyle on Tuesday, July 16, 2019 9:14 PM

Murphy Siding

     I see what you guys are saying, but it's not like they were laying out a rail line through the mountains of Iowa.

Keep in mind they built the original line during, I think, the 1860s.  Horses and guys with shovels mostly, building through lightly settled territory, probably following winding creeks and rivers to minimize excavation.  Also, Iowa is hilly!

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Tuesday, July 16, 2019 7:57 PM

     I see what you guys are saying, but it's not like they were laying out a rail line through the mountains of Iowa.

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, July 16, 2019 7:52 PM

Murphy Siding
 
jeffhergert

Earlier today I was reading an excerpt on this vary subject.  It was from a RI annual report.  Quoting from it, "This undertaking, covering 35 miles in all, will shorten our line by approximately 11 miles, will eliminate curves of 1640 degrees of central angle and do away with a very poor and broken grade line."  A couple of places along I-80 where it crosses the old right of way, you can still see embankments where the tracks used to be.

I imagine it was worth the cost.  Most railroad main lines have some line changes.  Some are minor, some major.  All to straighten out curves and/or reduce grades.

Jeff 

Kinda makes it sound like doing that line from the get-go might have been easier and less costly?

Remember, when the railroads were laid out in the 19th Century - it was done by men on horseback makeing decisions on what they could actually see and feel - not from any airel maps or any of the views or the world that we take forgranted in today's world.

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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Tuesday, July 16, 2019 6:03 PM

They didn't have aerial views to see the various possible routes.  The line was laid out as best as it could be, given the time and cost constraints at the time, and what information they could gleen from reports from trappers and friendly native peoples.

I am reminded of one story for Lewis and Clark's trek... they decided the river they were on was curving the wrong direction from what they wanted to go, so they abandoned the boats and took off cross country, making a particually difficult climb over an area, taking considerable time... only to discover that the river doubled back and they decended to it to continue the trip.  If they had stayed on the river it would have taken maybe a day instead of many to get to the same point.  But how did they know it at the time? They did the best they could with the knowledge they had.

Semper Vaporo

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Tuesday, July 16, 2019 5:37 PM

jeffhergert

Earlier today I was reading an excerpt on this vary subject.  It was from a RI annual report.  Quoting from it, "This undertaking, covering 35 miles in all, will shorten our line by approximately 11 miles, will eliminate curves of 1640 degrees of central angle and do away with a very poor and broken grade line."  A couple of places along I-80 where it crosses the old right of way, you can still see embankments where the tracks used to be.

I imagine it was worth the cost.  Most railroad main lines have some line changes.  Some are minor, some major.  All to straighten out curves and/or reduce grades.

Jeff

 

Kinda makes it sound like doing that line from the get-go might have been easier and less costly?

 

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Tuesday, July 16, 2019 5:01 PM

Earlier today I was reading an excerpt on this vary subject.  It was from a RI annual report.  Quoting from it, "This undertaking, covering 35 miles in all, will shorten our line by approximately 11 miles, will eliminate curves of 1640 degrees of central angle and do away with a very poor and broken grade line."  A couple of places along I-80 where it crosses the old right of way, you can still see embankments where the tracks used to be.

I imagine it was worth the cost.  Most railroad main lines have some line changes.  Some are minor, some major.  All to straighten out curves and/or reduce grades.

Jeff

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Posted by timz on Tuesday, July 16, 2019 4:33 PM

The new line (opened around 1953?) was shorter, straighter and flatter. Was it worth the cost? None of us knows.

The Trains article on the earlier Rock Island changes said RI thought each change would pay for itself in a few years. To calculate that, you have to predict how much traffic you're going to get; maybe they overestimated.

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Rock Island line change Iowa
Posted by CNW_4009 on Tuesday, July 16, 2019 2:51 PM

Why did the Rock Island change its line from Omaha,ne to Atlantic,ia some time after 1950?

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