Even when I was a kid (I am in my 70s), the USA was more or less two places. Ads for products said "prices higher in the west" or "not available on the west coast". Companies sometimes limited their scope of operations to east or west. 150 years ago it was even more like that. There was east of the Mississippi, and there was the west coast. So the idea of transcontinental meant linking the east and west halves of the country, not literally shore to shore on one railroad. Modern parlance has a different sense.
When Amtrak had its ALL ABOARD AMERICA fare, I took a circle trip from Chicago-New York City, Philadelphia - Atlantic City, off train overnight in Philadelphia (1st break), to Miami, overnight in Miami, Sunset Limited to L.A. SanDiegan to San Diego. Overnight in San Diego (2nd break). San Diegan to L.A., Thruway bus to Bakersfield, San Joanquin to Stockton, Thruway bus to San Jose. 3rd trip break, and then via Portland to Chicago. The Sunset Limited at that time went all the way from Miami to L A. Fortunatly, I could break up the trip with some overnight stays and still comply with the three breaks in travel limit. I would think this would count as a Coast to Coast trip.
CNR operates in eight Provinces extending from Halifax, N.S. to Vancouver and Prince Rupert, B.C. CP operates in six provinces from Montreal and Quebec City in,Quebec Privince to Vancouver on the west coast.
Overmod Deggesty In October of 1971, I boarded the Sunset in Houston, and rode through to Tuscaloosa, Alabama. Your car would have changed trains to be on the Crescent, then; to my knowledge the Sunset never ran as far north as the Black Warrior area.
Deggesty In October of 1971, I boarded the Sunset in Houston, and rode through to Tuscaloosa, Alabama.
Your car would have changed trains to be on the Crescent, then; to my knowledge the Sunset never ran as far north as the Black Warrior area.
I found it interesting that my first ride in a truly cross country car was in an SP car--and my next ride (from New Orleans to Los Angeles), in 1980, was in a Southern car.
Johnny
DeggestyIn October of 1971, I boarded the Sunset in Houston, and rode through to Tuscaloosa, Alabama.
In October of 1971, I boarded the Sunset in Houston, and rode through to Tuscaloosa, Alabama. We were running late, so I went to sleep well before we reached New Orleans, where I woke in the morning in time to get up and eat breakfast in the station before continuing on. The through service had been begun by the SP and Southern several years earlier, and continued, I believe, until Amtrak began using Superliners on their part of the route.
Yes there is a transcontinential railroad that directly links the Atlantic & Pacific. Its the Panama Railroad built in 1855 and still in operation. The 47 mile line is now owned by the Kansas City Souther and the MiJack Co. It carries both freight containers and passenegers.
Amtrak ran a through sleeper NYP-KCY-LAX, on the National Limited and Southwest Limited -- rode it westbound in Sept. 1974 aboard ex-UP 10&6 Pacific Ocean (appropriately). Interesting to move into a roomette for three nights. Had dinner (and a much-appreciated shower) with friends in KCY during the layover before #3 arrived.
Also rode westbound sleeper WAS-NOL-HOU in 1977, when the Amtrak car moved in Southern's Crescent. Oddest of all was a quick visit to NOL during Mardi Gras in 1985 -- hotels were sold out, but Amtrak had a roomette open aboard the eastbound through sleeper arriving from LAX late in the day: partied, went to the station very late at night; at 7 am my hotel room departed for New York.
oltmannd You can ship stuff from coast to coast on a single bill, so from the shipper standpoint....
Good point!
If the Class 1 roads were merged into two coast to coast and border to border railroads, what would be the incremental synergies?
I worked on several acquisitions and/or mergers for my Fortune 225 Corporation. A key driver was the opportunity to reduce costs while improving customer service and revenues. None of them lived up to management’s expectations.
jeffhergertYou would've had to use a ferry at Omaha. The first bridge wasn't built until 1872.
...and a riverboat from Sacramento to SF?
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
You can ship stuff from coast to coast on a single bill, so from the shipper standpoint....
oltmannd I'm going with "The transcontinental railroad" meaning that you could, by and large, get from ocean coast to ocean coast by rail. The "golden spike" at Promontory Summit checks this box. It doesn't matter that the first, last, or some part of the middle might involve a ferry, station transfer, etc. "A transcontinental railroad" would be a single company with ocean coast to ocean coast trackage. The US doesn't have one of these.
I'm going with "The transcontinental railroad" meaning that you could, by and large, get from ocean coast to ocean coast by rail. The "golden spike" at Promontory Summit checks this box. It doesn't matter that the first, last, or some part of the middle might involve a ferry, station transfer, etc.
"A transcontinental railroad" would be a single company with ocean coast to ocean coast trackage. The US doesn't have one of these.
You would've had to use a ferry at Omaha. The first bridge wasn't built until 1872.
The closet we've probably come to an Atlantic to Pacific transcon (so far) was the system George Gould put together. Common control but not one company in name.
Jeff
Yes, Amtrak did continue the New Yor-Los Angeles car--and for a short time, it ran Boston-Los Angeles.
charlie hebdo Semper Vaporo granted, the Atlantic was actually a portion of the Gulf of Mexico (the demarcation between the two being somewhat nebulous, even today). I think you got that reversed.
Semper Vaporo granted, the Atlantic was actually a portion of the Gulf of Mexico (the demarcation between the two being somewhat nebulous, even today).
granted, the Atlantic was actually a portion of the Gulf of Mexico (the demarcation between the two being somewhat nebulous, even today).
I think you got that reversed.
Continuing to split hairs, the Atlantic side of the Panama Canal is on the Caribbean Sea.
Lithonia OperatorSo why isn't a railroad that links the Atlantic coast to the middle of the country a transcontinental? NYC, PRR, B&O, etc., are never referred to as transcontinentals.
Greatly simplified, the eastern trunks were too preoccupied trying to cut each other's throats to make the kind of investment that would be required to build "significantly" to the west.
Both PRR and NYC (and I'd guess B&O too, but I'm only speculating) tied up a lot of resources buying parallel lines and end to end extensions, trying to eliminate competition as well as to out do each other.
One account that I read claimed that the PRR had taken on so much debt to control both the Panhandle and the Pittsburgh, Ft Wayne and Chicago, that they were "credit poor" for a time. This likely applies to the other Eastern trunks as well.
So, at the time that the other "big dogs" were building to the west coast, The eastern roads were attending to other, more immediate priorities.
Anyone remember the ad about a Hog being able to travel coast to coast on one car but a passenger could not. Robert R Young, president of the C&O was pushing the cause of through passenger cars. And in the fifties, the PRR, B&O & NYC all had through sleepers that transferred to CNW/UP, and/or SFe, for travel coast to coast. Also for a number of years, there was a sleeper that ran between NYC via the PRR, Sou, and SP to LA. I think Amtrak continued that for a while.
Technically a freight car could go from Seattle to Houston / Gulf coast on BNSF. Depends on whether you consider the Gulf to be part of the Atlantic I guess.
One of the reasons that a transcontinental merger was never really advocated in the past was over the issue of maintaining friendly connections at the various gateways between East and West.
Next round of mergers, if that ever happens, will probably be an end to end merger.. I guess we have to get through all that PSR and PTC stuff first though..so give it five or ten years.
wjstix Circa 1870 I'm not sure if you could go from New York to Chicago on one railroad, but if you could, you would have had to go on a second railroad from Chicago to Omaha, and then both UP and CP to get to San Francisco...so four railroads at minimum.
Making the comedic/cartoon representations of a station agent handing a ticket-buyer a long string of various tickets more truthful than not...
With the Canadians fully acknowledged, I would opine that for the US a true transcon still does not exist, although it is possible to ship or travel by rail from coast to coast (the other definition that has been provided), just not on one railroad.
As I noted before, at one time there could have been four or so.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
The term "trancontinental" was meant to describe the railroads chartered to connect the Pacific coast to the then-existing railroad system in the eastern part of the US. It had nothing to do with one railroad going coast-to-coast. Circa 1870 I'm not sure if you could go from New York to Chicago on one railroad, but if you could, you would have had to go on a second railroad from Chicago to Omaha, and then both UP and CP to get to San Francisco...so four railroads at minimum.
CSSHEGEWISCH Semper Vaporo Even after the Golden Spike ceremony, it was not possible to traverse from one ocean to the other via any RR in North America. There were sections where one had to take a ferry across a river or a cab across town to change RRs and the CP ended several miles from the Pacific coast. This looks like the kind of hairsplitting that Sheldon Cooper or a Philadelphia lawyer would be proud of.
Semper Vaporo Even after the Golden Spike ceremony, it was not possible to traverse from one ocean to the other via any RR in North America. There were sections where one had to take a ferry across a river or a cab across town to change RRs and the CP ended several miles from the Pacific coast.
Even after the Golden Spike ceremony, it was not possible to traverse from one ocean to the other via any RR in North America. There were sections where one had to take a ferry across a river or a cab across town to change RRs and the CP ended several miles from the Pacific coast.
This looks like the kind of hairsplitting that Sheldon Cooper or a Philadelphia lawyer would be proud of.
As far as the 19th Century was concerned "Transcontinental" was a good term of convenience. So what if it wasn't a true transcontinental?
I mean, a short ferry boat ride across a river to make the train connection sure beat the hell out of a trip across the Isthmus of Panama, where you could get a case of yellow fever as a souvenir, or a voyage around Cape Horn (any square-rigger sailor could tell you what a laugh riot THAT was!), or a months-long slog across the prairies by covered wagon.
No wonder the folks back then treated the transcontinental railroad, even as it was, as a modern miracle!
Lithonia Operator And there still is no coast-to-coast railroad, right? (I mean in the US. But Canada has two, I think. Don't CN and CP each go coast to coast? Or darn close to it?)
And there still is no coast-to-coast railroad, right? (I mean in the US. But Canada has two, I think. Don't CN and CP each go coast to coast? Or darn close to it?)
Canadian National absolutely does, running from Vancouver and Prince Rupert, BC on the Pacific coast to the Atlantic in Halifax, NS. They also run all the way down to the Gulf of Mexico with the acquisition of Illinois Central's lines. Their northern-most lines stretch all the way to the North-West Territory so truly CN has the largest geographical reach of any North American railway.
Canadian Pacific used to be transcontinental in Canada, but sold most of their former lines east of Montreal, QC to shortlines and regionals. (Quebec Gatineau, Central Maine & Quebec, etc.). Montreal is at least an ocean port though on the St. Lawrence River. They did however acquire the D&H south into New York and I'm not sure how close to the Atlantic coast the D&H trackage got, so they might still be almost-transcontinental there.
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
Canadian Pacific was a true transcon since 1889.. CN since 1919..
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