Passenger Rail in the Lehigh Valley area in the 1970s?

[HO Hobbyist]

Hi everyone!

I can see the confusion I have created. Here's the saga.

I am modeling the Lehigh Valley Railroad. Sort of. The track plan is designed for maximum number of trains constant running, with no basis on the LV. My era is the end of the LV. (The Valley closed in 1976.) They ended passenger sevice 15 years earlier, so I knew that with the locos I own I couldn't run passenger service.

I, at the time, decided on Amtrak. I bought a cheap train and cars to run a passenger service. My layout, as I said, is only loosely based on the area so I convinced myself Amtrak could work. 

Anyway, I am planning to upgrade my cheap locos and replace them with good ones. I was going to buy a model of an EMD SDP40F but realized that it wasn't worth spending money-a lot of it- on something that didn't fit for the prototype and I may regret buying.

So I came here, asking if any other railroads offered a passenger service in the Lehigh Valley in the early-mid 1970's.

If the answer was no, I would create a fictional company, buy an unlettered RDC, and make my own decals and do it that way. I would go the RDC route since decalling an entire train would be to much work.

If the answer was yes, which it is, I will look into buying something for that.

I live in Bethlehem, so when I saw that someone posted that Reading offered RDC service in Bethlehem I was vaery happy. I wouldn't have to shop around for a new model, just a new roadname. 

I hope this cleared up any issues.

Thanks for all the helpful responses! My experiences on the Model Railroader Forum and the Trains Forum have been incredible, and this has been no exception.

 -- HO Hobbyist

 

[Overmod]

RDG467

Overmod, that was not the sense I got when I read the initial post. HOH was asking about post-LV passenger service in the Lehigh Valley area, which I am assuming means A-B-E-Phillipsburg. Since the LV passenger service ended 10 years before Amtrak was created, my understanding was that he wanted to know if an RDC would plausibly fit into that post-61 scenario.

Yeah, I think you're more right than me.  I was thrown off by that 'private commuter company' post.

Would CNJ have been able to run reasonable Phillipsburg service with the 'scoot' RDCs toward the end?  I got the impression those RDCs were 'needed' right up through the time (back then) anyone wanted to provide Phillipsburg service at all... and got permission to drop it.

I was delighted when NJT decided to go back to Phillipsburg, although I never actually rode the service or watched it. 

[RDG467]

Overmod

RDG467

Except the Crusader/Wall Street ran on the Reading's NY Division through West Trenton and Bound Brook NJ, so it didn't come close to the Lehigh Valley.

Look more carefully at the structure of this thread.

He's discussing 'alternative history' that would retain Amtrak-quality passenger service over the Lehigh Valley, at least as far as Wilkes-Barre and possibly to some sort of connection in Buffalo.

 

Overmod, that was not the sense I got when I read the initial post.  HOH was asking about post-LV passenger service in the Lehigh Valley area, which I am assuming means A-B-E-Phillipsburg.  Since the LV passenger service ended 10 years before Amtrak was created, my understanding was that he wanted to know if an RDC would plausibly fit into that post-61 scenario.

The RDG *did* use RDC's, so that's a natural fit.  CNJ *could* have, but they went push-pull with their own old coaches, then post-71, with recycled Long Distance coaches, unneeded by BN or Amtrak, for the run to P-Burg.  

Those operations were the only 'passenger rail services' in the area.  I forget when the Lackawanna stopped serving P-Burg's Union Station.

HOH, let us know what you're looking for!!!! 

 

[Overmod]

RDG467

Except the Crusader/Wall Street ran on the Reading's NY Division through West Trenton and Bound Brook NJ, so it didn't come close to the Lehigh Valley.

Look more carefully at the structure of this thread.

He's discussing 'alternative history' that would retain Amtrak-quality passenger service over the Lehigh Valley, at least as far as Wilkes-Barre and possibly to some sort of connection in Buffalo.

As soon as the dedicated RDC trains were no longer needed or wanted by Conrail and then NJT-SEPTA for the 'New York' (Newark)-to-Philadelphia service, they could have been made available, or refurbished/upgraded, to be used (by Amtrak, perhaps with some kind of state-supported corridor scheme) for the longer service.  

In fact I suspect it would be relatively simple to have the trainsets be GG1-hauled between Hunter Tower and Penn Station; the NYC routinely ran RDCs in trail of conventional trains, and GG1s famously pulled the Aerotrain on the final leg into New York City, surely in both cases with working air conditioning...  Doesn't everyone want an excuse to run or model GG1s???

An alternative, but one much more difficult to model, would be to adapt some of the Rohr Turboliner consists to work with the type of third rail in the North River Tunnels, with purge for the turbine spindown; my understanding is that shoes capable of operating both over- and underrunning 'automatically' had been effectively perfected by the time these trainsets would be available.  If we consider that it was practical to run trains over the Jersey Central with nearly a 4-hour timing all the way to Wilkes-Barre, it would be interesting to see what a modern train on the superior LV alignment, with some government-assisted track improvement, might have done.  (Not really a substitute for service via the Lackawanna Cutoff, but a highly interesting alternative...)

[RDG467]

Except the Crusader/Wall Street ran on the Reading's NY Division through West Trenton and Bound Brook NJ, so it didn't come close to the Lehigh Valley. There were a half-dozen RDC's based out of Saucon Yard to cover the Phila-Beth services, though.

[Overmod]

HO Hobbyist

I was actually considering buying one of the Rapido RDC's, unlettered, and making my own commuter company. I guess I'll go with Reading instead.

Buy more than one.  You've got an ideal use for one of the Crusader/Wall Street trains after they were taken out of service between the New York area and Philadelphia...

[54light15]

I recall reading in Trains that the Phillipsburg train had an open-platform heavyweight observation car that people could ride. 

[HO Hobbyist]

Paul_D_North_Jr

The Reading had RDC service to from Bethlehem into the early 1980's, probaby until about when ConRail got out of providing the service and gave it to SEPTA.

If I recall correctly, CNJ ran trains out of Phillipsburg to Jersey City into the early 1970s, but not much longer.  

The NRHS published a booklet "Railroads of the Lehigh Valley" at about 3 different dates from the 1960s through the post-ConRail takeover. I have a couple of them, including the latest/ last.  Don't know if they covered the CNJ operation.  They're up in my attic, and I'm out at night meetings most of this week, but I'll see if I can take a look at them by next weekend. 

The moderator may move this thread to the Passenger Forum - http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/743.aspx 

or to the Classic Trains Forum -  http://cs.trains.com/ctr/f/3.aspx 

- PDN. 

 

 

I was actually considering buying one of the Rapido RDC's, unlettered, and making my own commuter company. I guess I'll go with Reading instead.

[timz]

I'm guessing the Phillipsburg to Newark train ended 1982. CNJ passenger west of there ended ... 1967?

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

NJ Transit ran two rush-hour runs in each direction to Phillipsburg on the Raritan Line through the mid-1980's, if not later.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

The Reading had RDC service to from Bethlehem into the early 1980's, probaby until about when ConRail got out of providing the service and gave it to SEPTA.

If I recall correctly, CNJ ran trains out of Phillipsburg to Jersey City into the early 1970s, but not much longer.  

The NRHS published a booklet "Railroads of the Lehigh Valley" at about 3 different dates from the 1960s through the post-ConRail takeover. I have a couple of them, including the latest/ last.  Don't know if they covered the CNJ operation.  They're up in my attic, and I'm out at night meetings most of this week, but I'll see if I can take a look at them by next weekend. 

The moderator may move this thread to the Passenger Forum - http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/743.aspx 

or to the Classic Trains Forum -  http://cs.trains.com/ctr/f/3.aspx 

- PDN. 

[HO Hobbyist]

Hi everyone,

I've always struggled with determining where to post on forums. Maybe this belongs somewhere else?

I know the Lehigh Valley Railroad ended passenger rail service in February 1961. Was there any company offering passenger rail service in the area? Amtrak never has run trains along the Lehigh Line.

 

- H.O.