BNSF has trackage rights over the UP Moffat Sub but uses UP crews for BNSF trains.
The protocol will change depending on the circumstances. A couple of years ago, we had a Amtrak private car special run on the scenic RR where I am an engineer/ conductor. Two Amtrak Genesis units and 18 cars. I was the engineer pilot on the trip south, but Amtrak engineers ran the train. With all of my experience limited to running relatively short consists with 40s / 50s vintage power and direct release brakes, it made more sense to let the Amtrak guys take their modern locos with desktop control stand and graduated release brakes down the hill (I think it is also Amtrak policy that only their people run their equipment). We also had a pilot conductor on the consist with the Amtrak conductor. I advised them on the physical characteristics and thoroughly enjoyed the ride!
On occasion CN and CP host the other railroad's trains when something blocks a mainline. The last major disruption was during the major southern Alberta flooding in 2013, when CN ran multiple daily CP trains between Edmonton and Kamloops.
For long-distance reroutes like this the host railroad's crews run the trains, in this particular case no CP employees were onboard while the trains ran on CN track.
During the winter of 2017-18 CN hosted a number of BNSF grain trains between Winnipeg and Vancouver after avalanches closed BNSF's mainline in Montana. Those trains were also run entirely by CN crews.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
jeffhergert Paul_D_North_Jr Good thing that these days, most locomotives are very similar and a host road engineer could operate a detouring locomotive - or at least is familiar with their handling characteristics. Imagine what that would've been like back in the day of steam locomotives, when each railroad's engines were different. Today, one thing that might not be so common is the DPU lash-ups and their operation - it may be that not all engineers qualified on a territory are familiar with handling those of a detouring road's usual spacing, etc., particularly if that isn't commonly done by the host road. Any insights from those here that are actually in the running trades? - PDN. That's why the detouring crew generally runs the train. The pilot engineer is there to advise the unqualified engineer of the physical characteristics of the route. Jeff
Paul_D_North_Jr Good thing that these days, most locomotives are very similar and a host road engineer could operate a detouring locomotive - or at least is familiar with their handling characteristics. Imagine what that would've been like back in the day of steam locomotives, when each railroad's engines were different. Today, one thing that might not be so common is the DPU lash-ups and their operation - it may be that not all engineers qualified on a territory are familiar with handling those of a detouring road's usual spacing, etc., particularly if that isn't commonly done by the host road. Any insights from those here that are actually in the running trades? - PDN.
Good thing that these days, most locomotives are very similar and a host road engineer could operate a detouring locomotive - or at least is familiar with their handling characteristics.
Imagine what that would've been like back in the day of steam locomotives, when each railroad's engines were different.
Today, one thing that might not be so common is the DPU lash-ups and their operation - it may be that not all engineers qualified on a territory are familiar with handling those of a detouring road's usual spacing, etc., particularly if that isn't commonly done by the host road. Any insights from those here that are actually in the running trades?
- PDN.
That's why the detouring crew generally runs the train. The pilot engineer is there to advise the unqualified engineer of the physical characteristics of the route.
Jeff
In today's railroading the DPU controls are standard as they come from the manufacturers for those that are equipped. Not all locomotives are equipped, however, most new locomotives coming off the assembly line are being equipped at their owners orders. New CSX locomotives were being equipped for DPU operation several years prior to my retirement in 2016, even though at the time CSX was only 'experimenting' with DPU.
I don't know if DPU trains are being detoured over territory where the home crews have not be qualified on operating DPU.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Paul_D_North_Jr Imagine what that would've been like back in the day of steam locomotives, when each railroad's engines were different. - PDN.
That is why the person running a locomotive is called 'Engineer'... The only person that knew what all the levers and knobs and handles on the steam locomotive accomplished and why and when they were to be used was the person that designed and supervised the building of the engine. i.e.: the Engineer.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Thanks, Jeff. Several years back, I was talking wih a man who had been an engineer on the Northern Alabama/Southern between Sheffield and Birmingham. at times, the Frisco and IC detoured over his road between Jasper and Birmingham, and he ran the engine.
Johnny
Deggesty dbduck Not sure if this has been asked before ( prob alot) When, for whatever reason, another railroad has to operate on another's trackage.. does the host railroad put an engineer at the controls or just ride along in cab, since he would be familiar with that particular railroads rules, signals, etc? If you are not qualified (do not know the territory), the host road engineer runs the engine and the host road conductor is in charge of the train. If your road has trackage rights over a foreign road, your engine and train crews are qualified to operate on the foreign road.
dbduck Not sure if this has been asked before ( prob alot) When, for whatever reason, another railroad has to operate on another's trackage.. does the host railroad put an engineer at the controls or just ride along in cab, since he would be familiar with that particular railroads rules, signals, etc?
Not sure if this has been asked before ( prob alot)
When, for whatever reason, another railroad has to operate on another's trackage.. does the host railroad put an engineer at the controls or just ride along in cab, since he would be familiar with that particular railroads rules, signals, etc?
If you are not qualified (do not know the territory), the host road engineer runs the engine and the host road conductor is in charge of the train.
If your road has trackage rights over a foreign road, your engine and train crews are qualified to operate on the foreign road.
The host railroad would supply pilot crews, engineer and conductor, but generally the detouring crew would run the train. Now with engineer and conductor on the engine, they may only have an engineer pilot.
When we've had planned detours, they usually put on a special pilot pool. This pool, might be regular engineers, managers or a combination, gets qualified on the host railroad. Then they pilot the detouring trains.
dbduckThanks for the response I was thinking along the lines of temporary usage like in the case of getting around a derailment or track replacement on the "visiting" railroad, so i would guess the host railroad would treat it as one of their "extras"?
I was thinking along the lines of temporary usage like in the case of getting around a derailment or track replacement on the "visiting" railroad, so i would guess the host railroad would treat it as one of their "extras"?
Detours around derailments are not as numerous as they once were. The mergers and plant rationalization that had happened since the enactment of the Staggers act in 1980 has eliminated many of the parallell routings that existed before Staggers. Secondly the carriers have gone to Contractors with off track equipment for derailment clearance - derailments are cleaned up and track restored much faster than it was in the days of the Wreck Train and their 250Ton heavy lift cranes.
When detours do occur, most frequently the detouring road crew is NOT QUALIFIED on the tracks being detoured over. In most cases, the detour train is delivered at a Interchange point and the road that will be moving the train over the detour route applies their crew which takes it to the interchange point where it is delivered back to the owning road.
With today's Class 1's running a 'tight ship' on their crew bases, requests to detour are frequently rejected because the road beind detoured over cannot make the move without affecting THEIR OWN traffic on the route. Today's Class 1's don't have 'unlimited capacity'.
dbduck Thanks for the response I was thinking along the lines of temporary usage like in the case of getting around a derailment or track replacement on the "visiting" railroad, so i would guess the host railroad would treat it as one of their "extras"?
Thanks for the response
A few years back, at a time that the California ZephyrI was being detoured across Wyoming because the UP was doing trackwork on the former Rio Grande, I asked an Amtrak conductor about his being qualified on the line across Wyoimng, and he told me he did not want to be qualified there. On one such trip, as we were backing into the station in Salt Lake City, I stood at the rear, and observed the UP conductor (the pilot) speaking to the engineer, giving him the indications of the dwarf signals. (The usual route of the CZ does not involve backing in Salt Lake City; the detour does involve backing--out eastbound and in westbound). I wish I had stood at the rear the last time the train was detoured when I rode eastbound and then I would know if the UP conductor or the Amtrak conductor is in charge from Utah Jct. to the station (this section is on the regular route).
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