"Engine" is a term defined in the Operating Department Rule Book so would be used inTrain Orders. operating bulletins, general orders and official correspondence. Other than that the words are essentially interchangable
The Canadian place name I always got a chuckle out of was Lachine, Que. The explorer La Salle had thought the St Lawrance River might be the Northwest Passage to the Orient. After he found out it wasn't, the locals named the area just above the head of navagation at Montreal as Lachine, which is french for China.
Miningman, I enjoyed your Official account of the history of the word Canada; seems plausible enough to me.
I had heard the version I shared earlier here from my Professor (a Canadian himself) in the History of Canada course (graduate level) I took in 1967, the Centennial year. I'm sure Prof. Havran would be dismayed to know that I confused Jacques Cartier with Samuel de Champlain! Thanks for correcting me.
Here's another story about early Canada: On his first voyage in 1534, Cartier, having reached the Gulf of St. Lawrence and viewing the bleak lands surrounding it, dolefully noted, "Fit only for wild beasts...This must be the land God gave to Cain."
Best wishes to you, Miningman, and everyone else up there in British North America!
Now I'm going back to watching Canadian comedian Jeremy Hotz on YouTube.
Wewanta, WV. Story is that the residents sent a message to the postmaster: We want a post office.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
NKP guy Favorite apocryphal story about Canada: It is said that when Samuel de Champlain asked the Algonquins the name of their country, or what they called the place, it is said they replied "Kan-a da" or something similar, which, it turns out, actually means, "What did you say?" or, "Would you repeat the question?" which he dutifully wrote down as the correct term.
Favorite apocryphal story about Canada: It is said that when Samuel de Champlain asked the Algonquins the name of their country, or what they called the place, it is said they replied "Kan-a da" or something similar, which, it turns out, actually means, "What did you say?" or, "Would you repeat the question?" which he dutifully wrote down as the correct term.
Sounds ike the story for the origins of kangaroo. The setlers asked a native what that animal was and they replied "kangaroo", supposedly meaning "I don't know".
Well, the American Indians used to call gold "The yellow metal that makes the white man crazy!" They weren't far wrong.
North American tribes that knew what gold was considered it worthless. I mean, what do you do with a metal that won't hold an edge? No good for knives, arrowheads, tomahawks, or any kind of tool. What good was it? A very practical people.
You lookin' at me?
I don't see anyone else here so it's me!
Ok the ' Official' government sanctified and imprimatur, put forth with great fanfare and emphasis by both the Pearson and Chrétien governments is as follows:
The name “Canada” likely comes from the Huron-Iroquois word “kanata,” meaning “village” or “settlement.” In 1535, two Aboriginal youths told French explorer Jacques Cartier about the route to kanata; they were actually referring to the village of Stadacona, the site of the present-day City of Québec.
There are about 3 other versions of the same thing. All a little too cute, contrived, and methinks it all a bit too convenient. It serves a purpose and that's that, they push it pretty hard.
I like the in depth research and reporting by the Canadian Gepgraphic Magazine early 2000's. They state the same skepticism over the official government version and claim it comes from early Spanish explorers who were looking only for Gold. After a brief time and zero legacy their maps showed the Kanata which meant ' nothing there' !!! Meaning no gold, forget it. They left behind horses though, and some indigenous tribes moved into the Prairies, get around, and hunt Buffalo.
Of course ' nothing there' is never going to fly with the government so they had to make up a story.
By the way we have huge gold resources. The Spanish were lousy prospectors. They just wanted pre-mined gold artifacts. The Native populations here could give a hoot about gold. Once prospectors arrived they were happy to show them surface showings. Back then you just rolled back the moss and there was a nice quartz vein with visible gold.
One particular observant Native fella, from Manitoba, got filthy rich offering his services to these crazy people with gold fever.
That's funny, I thought it was "Kwee-beck."
And the locomotive? I'd call it a "Berk-shirr," which is how they pronounce that Massachusetts mountain range the first one conquered.
I have the impression that if the English had reached the northern parts up the river from what is now New Brusnswick, they would have settled Kebeck.
Johnny
Although not an Indian word, how do you pronounce that wonderful class of Lima-built NKP steam locomotives? Do you say BERK-shir or BERK-shy-er? (I know, in England they would be called BARK-shirs).
Have any of our resident Canadian brethern here heard this story while growing up (I'm looking at you, Miningman)?
tree68 Overmod Flintlock76 "Ny-uh-gah-rah." Although perhaps that would be appropriate during periods of severe priming. Anglicizing Native American words doesn't always go well. As simple as Adirondack (bark eaters) may seem, there is an area of the park known as Ha-De-Ron-Dah, which sounds strangely similar...
Overmod Flintlock76 "Ny-uh-gah-rah." Although perhaps that would be appropriate during periods of severe priming.
"Ny-uh-gah-rah."
Although perhaps that would be appropriate during periods of severe priming.
Anglicizing Native American words doesn't always go well. As simple as Adirondack (bark eaters) may seem, there is an area of the park known as Ha-De-Ron-Dah, which sounds strangely similar...
Throw into the mix that the early European explorers were French and so when the wrote down what the Indians named geographic feature (river, mountain, etc.), they wrote it using the phonics of 16th century French. Then the English acquired the land, but used the maps already extant with French markings, and they pronounced the words with 17 century English phonitic understanding.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Overmod Flintlock76 "Ny-uh-gah-rah." That's quite a can of worms you're trying to open. Early maps have the name of the tribe rendered as Onguiarahronon or Niagagarega. Although perhaps that would be appropriate during periods of severe priming.
Flintlock76 "Ny-uh-gah-rah."
That's quite a can of worms you're trying to open. Early maps have the name of the tribe rendered as Onguiarahronon or Niagagarega.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
DeggestyQuoting Balt "My experience - it takes so long for your screen to register the action after you hit the 'Submit Your Reply' buttion that you percieve that the initial hit didn't take and hit it again - the first hit added your reply to the data base, but you didn't know it." There used to be the feature that told us that we had already posted our comopsitions.
There still is - however, I think there is a timer it operates on. Exceed the timer value and it isn't looking for a duplicate.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Flintlock76"Ny-uh-gah-rah."
OK, let me "muddy the waters" even more.
Ever see that rip-roarin' old C.B. DeMille movie "Unconquered" with Gary Cooper? Boris Karloff playing Indian chief Guyasuta pronounces "Niagara" as, here it comes...
Which maybe is correct. Who knows? Just thought I'd throw that in.
Quoting Balt "My experience - it takes so long for your screen to register the action after you hit the 'Submit Your Reply' buttion that you percieve that the initial hit didn't take and hit it again - the first hit added your reply to the data base, but you didn't know it." There used to be the feature that told us that we had already posted our comopsitions.
OvermodI am tempted to say there's no such thing as a Niagra Engineer
But certainly, these days, there are some Viagra engineers out there. Conductors too.
Still in training.
Overmod. (What in H-E-double toothpicks is wrong with this crap software double-posting so many of my posts???)
My experience - it takes so long for your screen to register the action after you hit the 'Submit Your Reply' buttion that you percieve that the initial hit didn't take and hit it again - the first hit added your reply to the data base, but you didn't know it.
. (What in H-E-double toothpicks is wrong with this crap software double-posting so many of my posts???)
Royce Bros. Circusevery NYC Niagra Engineer I ever ran into always pronounced it as "Box-Pox" just like that and no "Spokes".
I am tempted to say there's no such thing as a Niagra Engineer, either -- either here or in Mexico. They were NIAGARAs both places, no matter how pathetically railfans might spell.
The "Boxpox" thing was fairly common, I think. It has the charm of the assonance and alliteration, even if it is more reminiscent of an ailment than a technical achievement. One has to wonder, however, how carefully the enginemen actually read the "word" on paper to come up with it. (Or cared -- railroad men not likely being tolerant of the kind of cutesie silliness represented by such a tradename.)
For some reason I think there were ads for the centers that had a long mark over the second "O" to help the hapless figure out how the advertising boys expected their clever little term to be pronounced. I do know it took me a very long time saying 'pock' before I figured out what it had to be, though ... everyone else was saying it that way, so it had to be right.
Except that it didn't.
I, for one, from the first time I saw the desciption--I do not know how many years ago--thought it is POCK and not POKE--there was no real description, just pictures and the name.
"Box-Pox?" Oh brother.
Well, one thing I've learned in life is NEVER dispute the guys who were THERE.
Pick the pronunciation you like boys, no-one can say you're wrong.
In my 80's now and the son of a NYC Brakeman, I learned early that Reading wasn't "Read"-ing", but "Red-ing", and Mallet was French and pronounced "Mal-Lay" and every NYC Niagra Engineer I ever ran into always pronounced it as "Box-Pox" just like that and no "Spokes". Maybe it was because of the speed they pronounced it that it was that way. BOX-POX flows while Box-Spokes doesn't! Trying to "ed-e-cate" Monopoly players to pronounce Reading correctly was the one that tips my bucket though.
The commuter railroad that employs me calls a cab car an engine when it's the lead unit of a train. I suppose other systems do likewise.
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
zardozA "locomotive" is what we take photos of; an "engine" is what makes the locomotive move.
In general parlance, though, locomotive, engine, and motor are used more or less interchangeably.
After reading all the replies to the OP's inquiry, no one made mention of the hundreds of SD40T-2 and SD45T-2s fielded by Cotton Belt and Southern Pacific and, to a lesser extent Rio Grande, that roamed this land, known far and wide as "Tunnel Motors".
IIRC, with the Santa Fe it was "L" (lead), A, B, C. Same concept, though.
ORNHOOSemper VaporoI think that if the individual "units" were coupled with "Drawbars" then most would consider it to be as you say, "a five unit locomotive", but if they were coupled with standard couplers, then it would be "five locomotives" or "five units". IIRC this was a bone of contention between the railroads on one side and the engineers (and firemen's) unions back in the forties and fifties: if the tonnage required five GP7's to get it over the road, was each Geep a "locomotive" requiring an engineer in each of the five cabs, or were they "units" of a "multiple unit locomotive" that could be controlled by a single engineer in the lead "unit"cab? BTW, I have wondered if the decision had gone the other way would railroads have turned to massive "single unit locomotives" like the Baldwin Centipede?
Semper VaporoI think that if the individual "units" were coupled with "Drawbars" then most would consider it to be as you say, "a five unit locomotive", but if they were coupled with standard couplers, then it would be "five locomotives" or "five units".
IIRC this was a bone of contention between the railroads on one side and the engineers (and firemen's) unions back in the forties and fifties: if the tonnage required five GP7's to get it over the road, was each Geep a "locomotive" requiring an engineer in each of the five cabs, or were they "units" of a "multiple unit locomotive" that could be controlled by a single engineer in the lead "unit"cab?
BTW, I have wondered if the decision had gone the other way would railroads have turned to massive "single unit locomotives" like the Baldwin Centipede?
The Baldwin Centipede did not perform, thus its demise.
Railroads that had contract issues with multiple unit operation, just applied letter - Engine 222 - 222A - 222B - 222C - engineer was operating a single locomotive 222 A B & C. Gamesmanship has always been a part of railroad labor agreements. Neither the crafts or management are as dumb as each other think.
[quote user="Semper Vaporo"]I think that if the individual "units" were coupled with "Drawbars" then most would consider it to be as you say, "a five unit locomotive", but if they were coupled with standard couplers, then it would be "five locomotives" or "five units". [/quote
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