Sunnylandcomplicated process. My parents and I always looked when we were on trips to see if there were any Frisco cars. Did find a boxcar in Rawlins or Rock Springs, WY, forget which one, I think that was the farthest we had seen. When Mom worked at Frisco, she was a keypuncher working with waybills and per diem and still remembered many of the different RR code numbers 50 years later. Especially those used often like the bigger RR's around St. Louis. Had to be hard to figure out who owed what and where all their "stray" cars were. And this was in the days before computers, although keypunching was a start.
When I was partaking in the B&O's officer orientation in 1970 I was given half a day each to view all the various headquarter departments in Baltimore, payroll, car accounting, revenue accounting, car distribution, marketing, mechanical supervision etc. etc. The Car Accounting office, as I recall, had 50 or 60 clerks processing the various hand written and/or typed Interchange Reports and Per Diem Reclaims that were recieved in the mail (both company and US). This was at the point in time where Per Diem was still calculated on the daily basis, not the hourly basis as it is at present. I suspect all those jobs are long gone with the computerization that has been implemented during the intervening decades.
I believe the B&O road code number was 50 and the C&O was 125.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
complicated process. My parents and I always looked when we were on trips to see if there were any Frisco cars. Did find a boxcar in Rawlins or Rock Springs, WY, forget which one, I think that was the farthest we had seen. When Mom worked at Frisco, she was a keypuncher working with waybills and per diem and still remembered many of the different RR code numbers 50 years later. Especially those used often like the bigger RR's around St. Louis. Had to be hard to figure out who owed what and where all their "stray" cars were. And this was in the days before computers, although keypunching was a start.
I remeber seeing 65-70 years ago, box cars with Buck Creek Flour (or something like that) on them--I do not remember what, if any, road's name was on the cars.
The one time that I helped unload a shipment of flour (it was on the floor at one end of the car) I did not notice any markings on the car. I also had to sew one sack (100 pound sack) up because it had torn when it was thrown into the car and skidded o the floor.
Johnny
To clarify things a little - "Billboard" reefers were called that because the cars were leased to (or, less commonly, owned by) companies who decorated the cars with large, eye-catching lettering and colors...like they would on a billboard. But the car was leased to the company for their use. A railroad didn't take a freight car and get paid by a company to put that company's ads on their cars.
It can be particularly confusing on cars from the 1880's-90's because often the cars were leased to the company by a railroad, and would have the railroad-owner name on the car, along with the name of the company the car was leased to. In the 20th century, reefers were generally owned by separate companies who leased the cars to the private companies - and to railroads. Because of anti-trust laws and rules, railroads divested themselves of their reefer fleets to separate (on paper anyway) companies, and then leased them back. Burlington Refrigerator Express was a separate company from the CB&Q, and the reefers carried BREX (X indicating the car was owned by a private company, not a railroad) reporting marks, not CB&Q.
In the 1930's lettering over a certain size was banned because (as noted in an earlier post) company A would refuse to accept a car that was lettered for company B to carry their product. They'd make the railroad go get another car for their use. Plus it often meant company's A car had to sent back empty to company A, not earning money the way it could have with a load going back to it's point of origin.
In the 1930's, railroads began using their freight cars to advertise their service and particularly their new streamlined passenger trains. But these were cars owned by the railroad.
Isn't it about time to rescind the rule against ads on cars? As railroads fade into irrelevance, colorful advertising would make pedestrians and drivers take more notice of an approaching train. Might actually improve the grade-crossing accident rates.
jeffhergertOn the Rock Island, train No 57 the primarily General Motors auto parts train usually had General Electric engines. Jeff
Jeff
Big shippers could not control what power moved traffic on line of road - but they held a lot of weight on what power entered their plants on a routine basis. By the same token, I suspect automobiles that were not of GM origin were discouraged from being parked in plant parking lots.
On the Rock Island, train No 57 the primarily General Motors auto parts train usually had General Electric engines.
Semper Vaporo BaltACD samfp1943 tree68 BaltACD "That was one of the fun things about watching trains go by - seeing the various slogans and other "advertisements" on the cars." Nowadays, you're left to figure out who "ABCX" is in the reporting marks... OH! For the bygone days of those long trains, with the Billboard Reefers, and Advertising slogans on the Boxcars! Chiico, and Chessie, and Phoebe Snow sure added to the train watching! Just think of the revenue CSX or other carriers could add to their bottom line in selling the 'Naming Rights' on a 100 box cars to advertisers! There goes car CSXT 123456 - brought to you by Wheaties and CSXT 123457 brought to you by Timex Yes, but Post Cereals would be upset if the Wheaties boxcar was delivered them to fill with GrapeNuts. And Boliva would not like raw materials delivered to their factories in a boxcar advertising Timex!
BaltACD samfp1943 tree68 BaltACD "That was one of the fun things about watching trains go by - seeing the various slogans and other "advertisements" on the cars." Nowadays, you're left to figure out who "ABCX" is in the reporting marks... OH! For the bygone days of those long trains, with the Billboard Reefers, and Advertising slogans on the Boxcars! Chiico, and Chessie, and Phoebe Snow sure added to the train watching! Just think of the revenue CSX or other carriers could add to their bottom line in selling the 'Naming Rights' on a 100 box cars to advertisers! There goes car CSXT 123456 - brought to you by Wheaties and CSXT 123457 brought to you by Timex
samfp1943 tree68 BaltACD "That was one of the fun things about watching trains go by - seeing the various slogans and other "advertisements" on the cars." Nowadays, you're left to figure out who "ABCX" is in the reporting marks... OH! For the bygone days of those long trains, with the Billboard Reefers, and Advertising slogans on the Boxcars! Chiico, and Chessie, and Phoebe Snow sure added to the train watching!
tree68 BaltACD "That was one of the fun things about watching trains go by - seeing the various slogans and other "advertisements" on the cars." Nowadays, you're left to figure out who "ABCX" is in the reporting marks...
BaltACD
"That was one of the fun things about watching trains go by - seeing the various slogans and other "advertisements" on the cars."
Nowadays, you're left to figure out who "ABCX" is in the reporting marks...
OH! For the bygone days of those long trains, with the Billboard Reefers, and Advertising slogans on the Boxcars!
Chiico, and Chessie, and Phoebe Snow sure added to the train watching!
Just think of the revenue CSX or other carriers could add to their bottom line in selling the 'Naming Rights' on a 100 box cars to advertisers!
There goes car CSXT 123456 - brought to you by Wheaties and CSXT 123457 brought to you by Timex
Yes, but Post Cereals would be upset if the Wheaties boxcar was delivered them to fill with GrapeNuts. And Boliva would not like raw materials delivered to their factories in a boxcar advertising Timex!
That is one of the reasons for 'assigned pools' of cars for shippers. General Mills would be shipping the Wheaties branded car. Post would be shipping Grape Nuts cars. A supermarket distribution center would end up being the destination of both cars.
When GE had their Appliance Park East in Columbia, MD - the yard crew that serviced the plant from Jessup Yard had to have a GE product as their yard engine. Crews hated the GE's of the middle 70's.
The last timepiece with "Bulova" on it I saw was made in China. I returned it to the vendor, commenting that it was a piece of Chinese junk, for it would not run nor did the alarm work.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
BaltACDSince we are in the age of 'Naming Rights', I am surprised Rule 8 is still 'on the books'.
That was one of the fun things about watching trains go by - seeing the various slogans and other "advertisements" on the cars.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
jeffhergertHere's a link to a pdf of car service rules. https://www.railinc.com/rportal/documents/18/260773/OT-10.pdf Jeff
https://www.railinc.com/rportal/documents/18/260773/OT-10.pdf
Since we are in the age of 'Naming Rights', I am surprised Rule 8 is still 'on the books'.
dh28473 I still dont understand how freight cars are returned to the railway that own them. For instance a cn car in La how would it be returned?
I still dont understand how freight cars are returned to the railway that own them. For instance a cn car in La how would it be returned?
Here's a link to a pdf of car service rules.
BOB WITHORNSeems that in the past, General Motors had alot of 86' hi-cube boxes painted for all the rails that would handle them, stencilled "Return to Agent GTW, Flint, Mi." They left Flint loaded with hoods, fenders, engines, transmissions, etc and came back empty the reverse of the route as when full.
Back when finished products moved by box car, "return to ABC RR agent, Timbuktoo." was common. Railroads would assign box cars to certain points to assure a supply for loading. Very large volume points, like the auto companies, may have foriegn road cars that are part of an equipment pool.
I remember seeing Milwaukee Road 40' box cars marked, "When empty return to MILW Agent Amana IA." They were then loaded at the Amana Refrigeration Co.
By rail.
Hmmm...
"How do cars return to their owners?"
... in worse condition than when they left.
Falcon48Depends on the car. Traditionally, an empty car would be returned to the owner by reverse of the loaded movement. But, these days, there are plenty of exceptions. Some cars are "free runners". Once empty, they can be loaded by any railroad in possession to any destination. Only if no railroad loads the car wil the car move back to the owner. Non free running cars must be routed back to the owner, either empty or under load. Often, the cars aren't returned via reverse route, but by prearranged routings (I seem to recall they are called SCO 90 routings, but my memory may have dimmed with my declining years). An obvious question is why the owner would want to allow its cars to be used in services other than its own. There are basically two reasons. First, in the case of free running cars, the advantages of being able to utilize a free running fleet regardless of ownership may outweigh whatever benefits a railroad might achieve by having its own cars return empty (while being required to return other cars empty to their owners). Secondly, the owning railroad will be paid car hire by the railroad in possession by miles and hours off line.
An obvious question is why the owner would want to allow its cars to be used in services other than its own. There are basically two reasons. First, in the case of free running cars, the advantages of being able to utilize a free running fleet regardless of ownership may outweigh whatever benefits a railroad might achieve by having its own cars return empty (while being required to return other cars empty to their owners). Secondly, the owning railroad will be paid car hire by the railroad in possession by miles and hours off line.
Railroads have 'Car Service Rules' that apply to all carriers. These rules apply all cars used in common carrier rail transportation - among the things they govern are car hire (rent one carrier pays to another carrier for the time that carriers cars, or private owner cars on the paying carriers road); who is responsible for what repairs when defects happen on other than the owning road and what the compensation is for the repair, loading rules for 'free running' cars, rules for cars that are in 'captive' assigned service to a particular shipper. Car service rules also specify the conditions that apply to cars being released 'empty' by consignees (consignees have been know to put plant 'trash' in empty cars). While some cars may be stencilled with return instructions, the return instructions that are specified on the car movement waybills (which carriers use to collect their freight charges) actually govern the return of the cars.
Back in the lat 70's or early 80's with car shortages being experienced across the nation a tool known as 'Incentive Per Diem' was instituted to 'spark' the quicker movement of cars. What really happened was that the 'financial wiz kids' saw an opportunity to purchase rail cars for 'short lines' that were subect to incentive per diem and thereby make money so long as the cars were not on the short lines property. On some of these car purchases, the number of cars exceeded the mileage the short line actually operated.
Depends on the car. Traditionally, an empty car would be returned to the owner by reverse of the loaded movement. But, these days, there are plenty of exceptions. Some cars are "free runners". Once empty, they can be loaded by any railroad in possession to any destination. Only if no railroad loads the car wil the car move back to the owner. Non free running cars must be routed back to the owner, either empty or under load. Often, the cars aren't returned via reverse route, but by prearranged routings (I seem to recall they are called SCO 90 routings, but my memory may have dimmed with my declining years).
If you look carefully some older cars may say “return direct route“ which means that they should be returned via the closest route possible or “return via original route” which is self explanator. Also this shows the point of TTX which is to prevent the loss of time and expense of returning cars to their owner.
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