Just trying to make a personal point of a gripe, I've been developing for some time! At time, it seems some other posters her have complained about The Media, what it [media producers] seem to take fail to realize; or takes for granted, in its consuming public.
Caught a topic 'teaser' on a Travl> Channel TV Show [Mysteries at the Museum]; the opening was a photo of a Royal Mail Railway Post Office Car ( repleat with an official crest). The piece was about the '1963 Great Train Robbery' in England.
Immediately, after the opening, while giving some narative, the photo cut-in was of a whole string of [American] Tri-level auto racks, and then another cut of American Railroad cars. . The narrative broadcast was in reference to railroading in England, and specifically, the train robbery in 1963.
On other programming, on shows/channels like on the Discovery Channel, and some of the A&E programming, they will be doing narrations on American railroading, and thenshow clips, cut-ins, of [Obviously!] English rail eqipment, and UK steam engines!
I have a tendency to watch only so much of the currently televised media news drivel, and then seek to go find some alternative broadcast programming, to sort of cleanse my brain(?).
My question is: Do the folks[film editors] putting together programming such as the above; really think that 100% of their viewers are that clueless? It is the little details that tend to be something like the torture of a 1,000 cuts that will drive one over the edge.
OK! Rant OFF! and go let the dog out!
Sam, I dont believe the producers of the shows you mentioned think the viewers are clueless. It's more like the production staff is clueless!
"Oh, this show's about a train? Get some stock train footage and go to work!"
It's usually the old TV production thing, "We don't need it good, we need it next week!"
By the way, I know what you mean about Brit steamers being placed in an American content show. We were watching one last year when there was a supposed American train run-by, and Lady Firestorm blurted out "That's not an American train! It looks like 'Thomas The Tank Engine!'"
What are you gonna do? I drive Lady F crazy all the time correcting what I see on the tube, although sometimes she gets to go to town as well! Don't try to pass off a show as happening in the 30's or 40's if she's watching and the hairstyles and fashions aren't right!
Wayne
Wayne, I agree with you: the producers know so little about what they want to present and add anything which they think is relevant to the primary topic.
Johnny
[quote user="Deggesty"]
There was a movie or TV show or something made about a local prison break in upstate NY. They needed footage of the Canadian Pacific Plattsburgh local and the Amtrak Adirondack, but they used a Norfolk Southern GP38-2 and a comuter train. Really, quite unrealistic.
Harrison
Homeschooler living In upstate NY a.k.a Northern NY.
Modeling the D&H in 1978.
Route of the famous "Montreal Limited"
My YouTube
Children's books about trains (and fire trucks) have often gotten it wrong through the years. Illustrations and stock photos that only vaguely resemble reality.
And sometimes I wonder if toy designers ever looked closely at a real fire truck before they came up with their creation.
And it's the fault of the folks producing it. To them, a steam engine is a steam engine, and a fire truck is a fire truck.
The rivet counters among us will note not only things like the US/European discrepency, but "that's the wrong railroad!"
On the fire side, some fire departments have tried to straighten out the media by holding mini-academies for the press (and others who tend to get confused). That helps a little for current events. And the fact that I can stop in at my local TV station and talk one-on-one with a reporter can help, too.
Some folks watch fire-based TV and movies mostly to point out the errors.
But every now and then a producer will get smart and use (and listen to) a technical advisor who knows the business. The landmark TV show "Emergency" was a case in point. Advisor Jim Page (sounds a lot like John Gage, doesn't it? It should!) insisted that if it wouldn't happen in real life with LA County Fire, it wouldn't happen on the show.
A lot of movie producers would do well to do the same.
And don't get me started on "conductors..."
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
samfp1943My question is: Do the folks[fil editors] putting together programming such as the above; really think that 100% of their viewers are that clueless
My 2 cents, I doubt that they care about pleasing 100% of their audience. They probably have key demographics outlining their target audience (for advertising) and are more concerned with filling up program blocks "cost effectively" than they are on delivering a mesmerizing program that will enchant everyone.
I do symapthize with what you are saying, but just being frank, I am more surprised when programming that involves my area of expertise happens to get it all correct...
Ya gotta remember, it's (most of it) just entertainment, and not education.
All that said, the History channel has morphed from my favorite channel to pure looney-tunes over the past decade or so. I can scarcely stand to watch it most of the time. One exception is their new series "project blue book". While their treatment of the subject matter is a farce, I've been really enjoying watching the vintage hardware they are using for props, and the styles that go with it.
Please refrain from using emojis. They're VERY annoying and unprofessional. I almost didn't read anything you posted because of it.
Also, you did the very thing you're writing about by assuming the string of autos were all tri-levels. Were you able to see every car to know they were all tri-levels or did you just make an assumption?
10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ...
traisessive1Also, you did the very thing you're writing about by assuming the string of autos were all tri-levels. Were you able to see every car to know they were all tri-levels or did you just make an assumption?
The assumption he actually made -- that there would be remarkably few tri-levels in 1963 Britain -- stands whether or not the whole cut of cars pictured was, or not, all that type. I fail to see the point of the quibble, other than to continue the get-off-my-lawn surliness of the first part of your comment.
I don't care for emoticons/smileys/emojis/ as anything but 'spice' in posts any more than you do -- but it's an issue for PMs, not open posts. At least we don't have anyone (mis)using the emoji features for my pet dislike, rebuses.
He said they were a cut of North American cars, not English equipment, and then went on to say they were all tri-levels. I am just pointing out that he very well may have done the very thing he is griping about.
traisessive1... then went on to say they were all tri-levels. I am just pointing out that he very well may have done the very thing he is griping about.
Except that's not in the semantics of what he wrote. When he says 'a whole string' he means the same thing as 'lots', not that the invisible parts of the consist might in fact consist of different kinds of cars.
We could all perhaps try to be Fair Witnesses on these threads, but that's a difficult specialty (at least for me) even in conventional circumstances...
First of all-- it might be a good idea if some of us looked into transcendental meditation.
But if you want to get into other things they get wrong, one common gag used in sitcoms is to have someone hold a match or lighter under a sprinkler head, and all the sprinklers in the room turn on. They just don't work that way. Another gag is to have someone flush a tank-type toilet and someone taking a shower screams. It's the tankless toilets that affect pressure that much. They're just cheap laughs.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
OvermodI don't care for emoticons/smileys/emojis/ as anything but 'spice' in posts any more than you do --
The pendulum swings. Lately, I've been hearing every so often that more emojis have been made available. Are we going back to heiroglyphs?
Paul of Covington First of all-- it might be a good idea if some of us looked into transcendental meditation. But if you want to get into other things they get wrong, one common gag used in sitcoms is to have someone hold a match or lighter under a sprinkler head, and all the sprinklers in the room turn on. They just don't work that way. Another gag is to have someone flush a tank-type toilet and someone taking a shower screams. It's the tankless toilets that affect pressure that much. They're just cheap laughs.
Cheap laughs - BUT - the laughs are based on the experience of many people that have either lived in or visited dwellings where the pressure drop from filling a toilet will 'steal' cold water pressure from a shower - leaving only the hot water to spray. Been there, done that.
I have never 'tested' a sprinker system and don't intend to strike a match to try.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
In re another post--the word is "Hierglyphics"--from the Greek for "Priest Pictures." I ould use a Rosetta Stone to translate those drawings.
Overmod traisessive1 ... then went on to say they were all tri-levels. I am just pointing out that he very well may have done the very thing he is griping about. Except that's not in the semantics of what he wrote. When he says 'a whole string' he means the same thing as 'lots', not that the invisible parts of the consist might in fact consist of different kinds of cars. We could all perhaps try to be Fair Witnesses on these threads, but that's a difficult specialty (at least for me) even in conventional circumstances...
traisessive1 ... then went on to say they were all tri-levels. I am just pointing out that he very well may have done the very thing he is griping about.
I think the problem is saying they are tri-levels. There are bi-level enclosed auto racks out there. Depending on one's vantage, they don't look a whole lot different.
Oh, and by the way. They don't bother me.
Jeff
DeggestyIn re another post--the word is "Hierglyphics"--from the Greek for "Priest Pictures." I ould use a Rosetta Stone to translate those drawings.
And, perhaps, a better dictionary
Nothing like correcting a spelling when ... the 'correction is not quite right.
Hey, I like emoticons! I'm not going to be trendy and call 'em "emojis."
I don't use 'em all the time, I treat 'em like ammunition. You can only carry so many rounds with you, so don't waste them, fire 'em when they'll do the most good.
Tree68, Lady Firestorm and I loved "Emergency!" Especially Lady F, her father ws a volunteer firefighter. They never missed that show in her house!
As a matter of fact, Lady F found the 1940 Seagrave that Company 3 of the Paramus NJ FD uses for a parade rig. Another story.
Certainly "Emergency" is the "Gold Standard" as far as firefighting TV shows are concerned.
This is really cool. Here's "Station 51" from "Emergency," a fairly recent video. It's remarkably unchanged after 40+ years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4jNjuzmgOA
Let me add that as far as authenticity of movies and TV productions are concerned I'll give them a pass on the things that are incorrect if I see they're trying to get it right. Production schedules and budgets are stern taskmasters, I understand that. It's when they don't try at all that I get annoyed.
I've had the chance to meet Randolph Mantooth (Johnny Gage) a couple of times. He spoke at a local EMS conference here last year. I have a picture of me with him. He is a tireless supporter of EMS - a paean to the tremendous effect he had (along with Kevin Tighe) on the business.
Menards has available a model of Station 51/127 in a couple of scales. It's fairly accurate on the front, but isn't deep enough to hold even one apparatus. It's marked "Station 12."
Of course, he's told many stories - too many to share here. One, though - Hurst Racing was reluctant to sell the "Jaws of Life" to LA County, not being able to figure out how a fire department would use a tool designed to get race car drivers out of wrecks. They did so on the condition that one of the five sets go on the TV show. The rest, as they say, is history.
There is a fellow in Maine who has built a replica of Squad 51 - he takes it to EMS events all along the east coast.
The original Squad 51 and the second Engine 51 (Ward LaFrance Ambassador) are preserved at the LA County Fire Museum.
And just to keep things railroady, several scenes in a few episodes were shot in rail yards around LA.
[quote user="Flintlock76"]
[/quote]
Ok, looks like 'gripe fest' went a little side-ways(?) Mea-culpa..
I liked Emergency as well! Randolph Mantooth, and Kevin Tighe, and their cast of shift-mates made for a pretty interesting format; Bobby Troup and Julie London, [Troup's wife]. She was really nice[ in today's venacular, She was HOT!!{ To us 'young guys' way back :) when...} But I digress.
I guess I should have noted for the 1'-1' scale modeler's in the crowd, I maybe should have said American-style or types(?). Many of use here can recognize railroad equipment that is much larger than the standard British loading gauges.
Rail Cars from the UK stick out in this country, and are quite obviously out of their normal surrounds when found around this country.....[Many US Military bases, after WWII seemed to have a compliment of English-type Boxcars[wagons?] they were confined to those bases for movement of goods from manufacture to amunition bunkers to shipping. The Base/ Plant at Milan,Tn had a compliment of ones similar to the one showin in this linked photo
@http://www.bgrm.org/communities/6/004/005/354/746/images/4538337897_pre.jpg
Car shown is in the collection of the Bluegrass RR Museum.
samfp1943 and Julie London, [Troup's wife]. She was really nice[ in today's venacular, She was HOT!!
!!!!!!
Paul of Covington samfp1943 and Julie London, [Troup's wife]. She was really nice[ in today's venacular, She was HOT!! !!!!!!
Much of today's vernacular is unprintable, as I suspect yesteryear's was too! By the standards of railroader, construction worker or other blue-collar language Sam is being quite tame.
But considering some of today's postings it is probably a good thing that the forum's emoji list excludes vegetables... ...
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Don't normally watch this show (CHICAGO FIRE, "NO REGRETS") much but this episode (Season 2, Episode 7) was shot at the Illinois Railway Museum using former C&NW bilevels in a simulated train-tanker crash that I thought got many things right. A little hoaky but much made sense.
Flintlock76Let me add that as far as authenticity of movies and TV productions are concerned I'll give them a pass on the things that are incorrect if I see they're trying to get it right. Production schedules and budgets are stern taskmasters, I understand that. It's when they don't try at all that I get annoyed.
I really don't think that such programming is intended to stroke the egos of the "most knowledgeable 10%" of the viewing audience. If they can get just 50% of the viewers to come away from the program feeling as though they've learned something, then the content creators likely feel "mission accomplished"
Further, I'd suspect that it's fairly likely that programming editors and producers feel that railroaders are as clueless about the entertainment industry as railroaders believe the media is about railroading. Complete with hard boiled veterans in that industry sneering a condescending "yes, but..." towards any industry outsiders daring to question the sanctity of their answers.
I don't have anything to add to the topic, but couldn't resist posting to say that I'm a big fan of Emergency!
Hoping to see the restored HD transfers that Universal made from the 35 mm masters after the vault fire, hit Blu-Ray one of these days so that I can retire my old DVD's of seasons 1-5 that used the ugly videotape transfers made back in the early days of cable television (Season 6 and the post series tv movies hit DVD late enough to use the new transfers).
Not too surprisingly, I'm partial to "Chicago Fire". The firehouse used in the show is a working CFD firehouse (I've seen it) and the production company is aware that everything else stops when the call comes, which has happened. Much of the location shooting is done in Lynn's old neighborhood so we've had some fun recognizing the location of the shoots. I've recognized some other locations, including East Side and South Chicago.
We've all seen "From Russia With Love," right? Notice how in one run-by scene the coaches all have doors down the side. The Southern Railway in the U.K. used them for commuter service. The Orient Express sure didn't use those!
Another thing is how cars in movies generally don't have inside rear-view mirrors and sometimes the gear shift never leaves Park, even though the driver's hair is blowin' in the wind. Next time you watch Lawrence of Arabia, early on in the film when Peter O'Toole is on the motorcycle, notice how the scenery whizzes by, but there's nary a hair out of place.
54light15We've all seen "From Russia With Love," right? Notice how in one run-by scene the coaches all have doors down the side. The Southern Railway in the U.K. used them for commuter service. The Orient Express sure didn't use those! Another thing is how cars in movies generally don't have inside rear-view mirrors and sometimes the gear shift never leaves Park, even though the driver's hair is blowin' in the wind. Next time you watch Lawrence of Arabia, early on in the film when Peter O'Toole is on the motorcycle, notice how the scenery whizzes by, but there's nary a hair out of place.
Don't forget scenes with the actors driving down the highway - moving the steering wheel about 30 degrees from side to side on supposedly straight road. The only vehicles with steering that bad are in the junk yard.
BaltACDDon't forget scenes with the actors driving down the highway - moving the steering wheel about 30 degrees from side to side on supposedly straight road. The only vehicles with steering that bad are in the junk yard.
The movie Julie starring Doris Day has perhaps the best example I've ever seen of what you just described.
I had a truck you could do that with ;)
Took me awhile to adjust to a car with working steering, brakes and wipers that didn't require keeping a high idle at a stop light.
Rented a car that has a auto-shutoff feature, had a flashback.
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