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Why Doesn't Pan Am Railways Have there own reporting marks?

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Why Doesn't Pan Am Railways Have there own reporting marks?
Posted by Harrison on Thursday, March 7, 2019 8:42 PM

Why does Pan Am(and Guilford) use MEC, B&M, and other reporting marks rather than creating they're own?

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, March 7, 2019 10:19 PM

Harrison
Why does Pan Am(and Guilford) use MEC, B&M, and other reporting marks rather than creating they're own?

Because they can - they own MEC and BM, and probably some others.

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Posted by The Ferro Kid on Thursday, March 7, 2019 11:06 PM

Therein lies a lot of history.  The Wikipedia article on Pan Am Railways provides a lot of backdrop.  It comes the closest to answering the question,  indirectly, in the subsection titled "Pan Am Railways (2006 - present)", second paragraph.  Much has to do with management desire from early-on to maintain or get around labor agreements, and there were no doubt other legal considerations against consolidating the various railroads that made up Guilford into one neat corporate package.  Not to mention simply the cost of doing so.

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, March 8, 2019 8:05 AM

As The Ferro Kid mentioned cost, if what you have works, why go to the expense of repainting all the equipment? We could ask, "Why does the UP have cars with the Omaha Road marks?"

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Posted by CShaveRR on Friday, March 8, 2019 9:38 AM

Or, more to the point, why didn't Chessie System have its own reporting mark instead of hanging onto C&O, B&O, and WM?  If you go into the Equipment Registers, you'll find that B&M and MEC are still separate railroads, just as the components of the Chessie System were.

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, March 8, 2019 10:41 AM

CShaveRR

Or, more to the point, why didn't Chessie System have its own reporting mark instead of hanging onto C&O, B&O, and WM?  If you go into the Equipment Registers, you'll find that B&M and MEC are still separate railroads, just as the components of the Chessie System were.

 

In other words, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, March 8, 2019 12:08 PM

CShaveRR
Or, more to the point, why didn't Chessie System have its own reporting mark instead of hanging onto C&O, B&O, and WM?  If you go into the Equipment Registers, you'll find that B&M and MEC are still separate railroads, just as the components of the Chessie System were.

Chessie System was a marketing 'monicker' - it had no ownership value.  B&O, C&O and WM were the ownership companies and as such their identities were affixed to the equipment that was in each companies ownership 'bucket'.

Until the formation of CSX Transportation my paychecks came from the B&O Railroad, not Chessie System.  While CSX was created 11/1/80 - CSX Transportation wasn't created until 7/1/86 when the ownership interests of B&O, C&O and WM were merged into it.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Saturday, March 9, 2019 8:38 PM

When Conrail was split, cars that went to CSX got NYC reporting marks, and those that went to NS got PRR markings.

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Posted by CShaveRR on Sunday, March 10, 2019 8:46 AM

MidlandMike

When Conrail was split, cars that went to CSX got NYC reporting marks, and those that went to NS got PRR markings. 

 

Correction to this:  Freight equipment inherited by NS from the Conrail split remained lettered CR; it was not relettered PRR.

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, March 10, 2019 8:52 AM

CShaveRR
 
MidlandMike

When Conrail was split, cars that went to CSX got NYC reporting marks, and those that went to NS got PRR markings.  

Correction to this:  Freight equipment inherited by NS from the Conrail split remained lettered CR; it was not relettered PRR.

Unless it was equipment that contained a CR predecessor reporting mark (which some equipment still did) that was going to NS as opposed to CSX.  CR equipment that was identified as CR and going to NS did not get the PRR treatment. 

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Sunday, March 10, 2019 9:41 AM

However, a lot of the former ConRail real estate that went to NS is owned by an entity called "Pennsylvania Lines LLC". 

Sort of reminiscent of the old PRR, whose tracks west of Pittsburgh(? or Fort Wayne?) were known as "Lines West". 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, March 11, 2019 7:36 AM

Not quite the same, although PRR's corporate structure was incredibly complex.  The "Lines East" and "Lines West" monikers were more of an operating arrangement than separate corporate structures.  A separate corporate entity for non-railroad real estate was probably established to keep that entity beyond the purview of the ICC or STB.

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Posted by Falcon48 on Thursday, March 14, 2019 6:56 PM

Deggesty

As The Ferro Kid mentioned cost, if what you have works, why go to the expense of repainting all the equipment? We could ask, "Why does the UP have cars with the Omaha Road marks?"

 

If we're talking about the same cars - UP cars with "CMO" (Omaha Road) reporting marks - the reason was to readily identify the cars subject to certain financial arrangements.   CNW did the same thing.  The CMO cars were actually constructed long after the Omaha Road went away, so it wasn't a case of just not wanting to repaint old equipment.

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Posted by Falcon48 on Thursday, March 14, 2019 7:07 PM
CShaveRR

Or, more to the point, why didn't Chessie System have its own reporting mark instead of hanging onto C&O, B&O, and WM?  If you go into the Equipment Registers, you'll find that B&M and MEC are still separate railroads, just as the components of the Chessie System were.

In other words, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

 

 

 

 

Reporting marks don't tell you anything about whether the marks on the car represent an existing "separate" railraod.  There are many examples of railcars with the reporting marks of railroads that have long been merged out.  In this case, the "old" reporting marks are considered the marks of the surviving railroad.  The "hard copy" Equipment Registers of yore specifically showed "old" marks like this as the marks of the surviving railroad (for example "SP" would be shown as a "UP" reporting mark).  I assume the electronic versions of the Register are similar.  Roads may use "old" reporting marks for various reasons - not just becuase they haven't got around to relettering "old" cars.  For example, the "old" road cars may be subject to different financing arrangements and need to retain their separate identities.  Again, the Omaha Road (CMO) marked cars on UP I mentioned in my earlier reply were built many years after the Omaha Road was gone as a separate railroad. 

 
 

 

 

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