NS milepost map

[mudchicken]

NS Engineering ain't gonna share. The law department made sure of that.

(What's in the back of a timetable is generally a condensed profile and has nowhere near the detail of a track chart. There are plenty out there that have no clue about what a track chart provides and there are plenty more who can't understand or read the thing. Misinterpreting the track chart is frequently what starts nuisance lawsuits by busybodies ....and then you get into the crap opined by the EagleOne schmucks (CSX is at war with them)...)

[Convicted One]

I agree Paul, I believe that you and I both recognized that Multimodalways was the best choice.  I'm just a little puzzled by the extraneous chatter from others suggesting that NS' engineering dept would even respond to such a request, let alone cooperate.

I doubt we'd be getting "thoroughbred service" when the discussion got around to the horse we rode in on. 

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Convicted One - 

Your points are valid, which is why it's best to just go to what's available online.  Might be a little dated (2008 - 2009 versions) but I'd bet 98% of it is still accurate.  

- PDN. 

[Convicted One]

BaltACD

The Engineering Departments of the carriers maintain detailed track charts that identify virtually everything one needs or wanted to know about any segment of track -

Somehow I just don't envision NS being too cooperative with such a request from any John Q Public.  Am I wrong to think that way?

I mean they are going to want to know "who are you? what's the name of the horse you  rode in on? Who do you work for? why do you want to know? Are you now or have you ever been involved in litigation involving a railroad? Stuff like that. 

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Caldreamer - 

No, I mean the NS Engineering Dept. track charts linked above, as others have noted - not those in the ETTs. 

- PDN. 

[tree68]

If you  want accuracy, the national crossing database has every crossing, down to the nearest hundreth.  

https://safetydata.fra.dot.gov/officeofsafety/publicsite/downloaddbf.aspx

 Then, again, so do most ETT's.

[CMStPnP]

BaltACD

Depending upon how accurate you project needs to be, I would suggest going to the source - NS!

Internally, NS used to publish a relatively up to date system map that was fairly large with the company emblem on it.   I don't think it had mileposts though.    I think I got it on one of their steam excursions as NS marketing material.

BALTACD is right, railroad has the best info available. 

[BaltACD]

caldreamer

Paul:

  That is what I was saying.  The track charts in the division timetables are the way to go.

    Caldreamer

Don't believe Division Timetables were the 'track charts' Mr. North was referring to.  The Engineering Departments of the carriers maintain detailed track charts that identify virtually everything one needs or wanted to know about any segment of track - what kind of rail, when it was laid, when ties were replaced, when the rail grinder worked over it, how many tons of traffic have operated over it, what kinds of tie plates are in use - on and on and on!  This charts are as accurate as humanly possible as these are the charts upon which maintenance programs are developed.

[caldreamer]

Paul:

  That is what I was saying.  The track charts in the division timetables are the way to go.

    Caldreamer

   

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

I'd go with the track charts, too.  Far more detailed, and easier to correlate with bridges and other fixed structures for better accuracy.  Many even have the distance between mileposts - not always exactly 5,280 ft. 

- PDN. 

[timz]

caldreamer

since that is what the railroad uses it is the most  accurate.

Maybe so, as long as you remember that "most accurate" doesn't always mean "accurate". Actual accuracy isn't that easy to achieve, and the guy compiling the timetable likely doesn't have all the necessary info.

Turns out multimodalways.org has August 2008 timetables for eleven NS divisions -- is that everything?

Might as well look the charts over too

http://www.multimodalways.org/archives/rrs/NS/NS%20Track%20Charts/NS%20Track%20Charts.html

[caldreamer]

he most accurate way to get mileposts is to go onto the web and google "Norfolk Southern Employee Timetables".  I  found them and since that is what the railroad uses it is the most  accurate.

      Caldreamer

[tree68]

Any of the old concrete mileposts on the St Lawrence Sub still have an "S," for Syracuse, where the line starts.

[Deggesty]

A stanard practice for many roads was to have mainline mileposts identified solely a pure number and branc lines identified by a letter prefix with the number. For instance, the Southern's mainline from Washington simply had a number (which was continued on past Birmingham to Columbus, Ga.). Other lines had letter prefixes for the points.I am not sure how the matter wasndled when two or more divisions shared track--such as between Ooltewah and Chattanooga which was shared by the A line (Bristol to Memphis) and the H line (Chattanooga to Brunswick) and between Atlanta and Austell (shared by the main line and H line). The Southern had several other instances of shared track (two more in the Chattanooa Terminal area).

[tree68]

BaltACD

All the lines acquired in the ConRail acquisition were given a Q prefix.  I have no idea what, if any, 'system' was used to assign the next identifiers.

If I had to guess (and that's all I've got), I'd have to say that in the two examples it would be "Montreal" (QM) and Chicago (QC) for the Chicago Line.

 

[BaltACD]

tree68

Since we've wandered into CSX - the Chicago Line through central NY uses a two letter prefix (QC), and the St Lawrence Sub uses the two letter prefix "QM."  Miles are usually given to the tenth (ie, switch at MP QM 69.4).

Both lines are former NYC, PC, Conrail.

All the lines acquired in the ConRail acquisition were given a Q prefix.  I have no idea what, if any, 'system' was used to assign the next identifiers.

[BaltACD]

The CSX milepost designations are integrated into both the CADS computer as well as the Main Frame computers.  The milepost field is designated as 6 character spaces for whole MP.  Some applications are designed to accept the 10ths of a MP.

My understanding that for PTC locations are now being specified to the 100ths of a mile, so I suspect the systems have been updated to that requirement (1/100th of a mile is 52.8 feet).

Depending on the traffic on specific sub-divisions the road radio channel can be very congested air space - remember in accordance with CSX rules trains are required to call signal indications (signal identity, train identity and direction), defect detectors announce to the road channel, authority to pass through MofW Work Zones between MofW personnel and trains, train to train inspection communications.  When trains 'ring in' to contact the Train Dispatcher, that call happens on the Dispatchers Channel.  Keeping conversations on the Road channel as short as practible benefits all who have to transact 'business' on the Road Channel.  

When the Dispatcher wants to establish communications with a train, the Dispatcher goes on the Road Channel through the radio tower nearest the train and contacts the train with instructions to go to the Dispatchers channel so the communications can be held without the interuptions the happen on the Road channel.

[tree68]

Since we've wandered into CSX - the Chicago Line through central NY uses a two letter prefix (QC), and the St Lawrence Sub uses the two letter prefix "QM."  Miles are usually given to the tenth (ie, switch at MP QM 69.4).

Both lines are former NYC, PC, Conrail.

[Justicar]

I am no longer within the industry so my impressions are about 10 years old but it seemed to me that, for example, CSX's treatment of milepost designation utilized the aforementioned 3 character code prefix to the milepost in place of, for example, having to name the line segment, eg subdivision name.

Like, CSX could simply state "milepost OZA 200.5" whereas Canadian Pacific would state "milepost 200.5 Tomah subdivision".  I'm guessing the 3 character's "OZA" is specific to the CE&D subdivision (former C&EI, L&N) however CSX might also further designate the milepost with its subdivision name, thereby making the full reference redundant.  In things like radio directives, timetables, bulletins, etc.

[MidlandMike]

You might look at the FRA interactive map:

https://fragis.fra.dot.gov/gisfrasafety/

 

Edit: See what happens when you take too long to post.

[mudchicken]

Use the FRA GIS if it doesn't have to be that accurate. Some of the branchlines have not been mileposted yet. (The FRA metadata is not that great)

[BaltACD]

Question?

My understanding of PTC is that it involves a 'map' of the territory the train is operating over and it is defined by 'Mile Post'.  I know from my CSX experience that every line operated has milpost designations that are unique to that line.  On CSX the milepost, for the most part, consist of three leading identifiers, that can be alpha or numeric and three trailing numbers that are the milposts from whatever point has been designated.

I presume other carriers have similar systems - what I am wondering, are the three leading identifiers unique to each carrier or only apply to individual carriers - note that milepost ends up being a data element of the FRA's railroad grade crossing database.

On CSX it seems like they have used 'most' of the three leading identifiers from 000 (three zeros) to XXB & YYG and probabaly a number of others I am not aware of and most of the combinations in between.  (as information - the 000 prefix applies to prior original L&N lines, XXB applies to the former Western Railway of Alabama, YYG applies to the former Georgia Railroad.)

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

I was going to suggest Multimodalways earlier today, but I don't post from work.

For track charts - pick your division(s) and years(s) - most recent is generally 2008: 

http://www.multimodalways.org/archives/rrs/NS/NS%20Track%20Charts/NS%20Track%20Charts.html 

For Employee TimeTables - same notes: 

http://www.multimodalways.org/archives/rrs/NS/NS%20ETTs/NS%20ETTs.html 

Good luck, and have fun! 

For the complete list of railroads, go here:

http://www.multimodalways.org/archives/rrs/rrs.html 

- PDN. 

[Convicted One]

You'll get a good start if you go to multimodalways.org......and then look under "archives" "railroads" and then pick your poison

[tree68]

Another alternative would be to haunt some train shows - there are often vendors who have older employee timetables for sale.  Short of a major overhaul of the lines, the mileposts don't change, and ETTs usually have some form of track chart.

Or check on-line.  There's bound to be a dealer somewhere who has what you want, and at a reasonable price.

Both of those options will likely require a cash outlay.

If you know someone who works for NS, they might be able to locate a spare copy (or an out of date copy) of the ETT.

[BaltACD]

SteamRoller88

Hello all,

Working on a project and wondering if there was a map available over the internet that gives the milepost and cities the tracks go through.. Anyone know where I can find this??

Thanks!

Depending upon how accurate you project needs to be, I would suggest going to the source - NS!

[SteamRoller88]

Hello all,

Working on a project and wondering if there was a map available over the internet that gives the milepost and cities the tracks go through.. Anyone know where I can find this??

Thanks!