Pushers at Portage,Pennsylvania.

[dwil89]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

PS....I am a Pennsy fan as I even have a steel / porcelain sign about 8" square with the keysone and PRR logo in the office here.

My Great Grandfather ( my father's mother's father worked for the PRR in engine service,for just under 40 years ....majority of that time as a Steam Engineer..He started out running on the South Fork Branch and ended up on the Mainline in the Johnstown-Altoona area. He had time to have 15 children during all of this too! I have some of his old RR boks and time sheets. Dave Williams http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nsaltoonajohnstown

[Modelcar]

PS....I am a Pennsy fan as I even have a steel / porcelain sign about 8" square with the keysone and PRR logo in the office here.

[Modelcar]

...No, have none of the books you mention but they do sound interesting. That area sure reeks of history concerning the PRR and the beginning canal system.

[dwil89]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

...Thanks Dave....Yes, straightening the curves for sure would take some of the uphill resistence out of the grade even though it was just a touch steeper. Good Info. I have noted some of the rather large fills over in the area you mention.

I dont know if you own, or have heard of the Triumph series of PRR books by Charles S. Roberts..He has done a whole series on the PRR in volumes covering Pennsylvania Railroad history..including the State owned canal system, between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. Triumph 1 covers the area betwwen Altoona and Pitcairn from 1846-1996 and goes into great detail on the history of the area, along with charts, and older pics.....I was just leafing through it, and another chart showed that the straightening on the West Slope went as far as Summerhill, greatly reducing curvature. The area between Wilmore and Portage was always a relatively level stretch...which is why the PRR installed Trackpans there during steam days, so steamers could scoop up water on the fly. There is a dam and a lake in Wilmore which used to belong to the PRR, used for water purposes for the RR. I believe that dam was for the trackpans in Wilmore. Dam and lake are still in existence. Dave Williams http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nsaltoonajohnstown

[Modelcar]

...Thanks Dave....Yes, straightening the curves for sure would take some of the uphill resistence out of the grade even though it was just a touch steeper. Good Info. I have noted some of the rather large fills over in the area you mention.

[dwil89]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

...Dave, It is my understanding the east side grade on the {PRR}, has a maximum grade up that slope of about 1.8%...What is the figure for the original alignment up the west slope before the later changes and what is it now....? I believe I've seen figures roughly in the 1% range....

Okay.Just went to a PRR book.....and the author relates this information...that J Edgar Thomson's original average grade for the West Slope was 1%. until near Cassandra, where it jumped upward. After the realignment, the grade between Portage and Lilly which is 6 miles went to 1.05, then 1.12, 1.18, and 1.12%. The author indicated that the original grade transition, from the 1% to 1.18 was further East and more abrupt, however, the transition was eased because the original line alignment was longer....there were more curves, and the line curved back and forth before it was straightened.. According to his figures, gradient was actually increased overall between Portage and Lilly, as a result of the realignment, The addition of massive fills however, made the grade more consistent, meaning that the stiffer part of the grade was shifted West toward Portageand spread more evenly than with the old line, and the reduction in curve resistance from the straightening offset the longer grade, as it was made more gradual .I have gotten a look at trackcharts and grade profiles of the West Slope, but these only show grade after the 1898 realignment..I have not seen a grade profile yet of the original..... Dave Williams http;//groups.yahoo.com/group/nsaltoonajohnstown

[Modelcar]

...Dave, It is my understanding the east side grade on the {PRR}, has a maximum grade up that slope of about 1.8%...What is the figure for the original alignment up the west slope before the later changes and what is it now....? I believe I've seen figures roughly in the 1% range....

[dwil89]

Portage is an interesting spot. The orginal alignment of the PRR meets the new alignment of the PRR here. Right at the spot the pic is taken, trackage swings off the main to the right of the signals and runs through Portage to a coal loadout, then it swings back onto the main on the other side of Portage, This secondary was originally the mainline of the PRR from 1854 until approximately 1898, when the PRR did a major realignment of trackage on the West Slope west of Lilly, PA. It lessened curvature and average gradient, by bypassing centers of towns which it previously zig-zagged through. Massive fills were constructed in this area in many instances by building wooden trestles and then dumping fill until the trestles were covered.....The 4 Track Broadway came into being around the 1898 timeframe. The Railroad was first constructed through this region with 2 tracks, including around Horseshoe Curve, then it went to 3, and then 4 tracks which lasted until 1981, when trackage on the mountain was pared down to 3 tracks, except between Cresson, and Gallitzin, which to this day has 4 tracks, plus a fifth 0 track in the couple miles between Cresson at MO interlocking and AR and UN interlockings in Gallitzin, Pa. The current Mainline trackage between Portage and Cassandra, where the famous Cassandra footbridge is located is all new line...built in 1898. Dave Williams http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nsaltoonajohnstown

[dwil89]

This is a link to a thread at Trainorders where I posted a couple of pics of Helpers shoving a Coal-Drag up through Portage Pa. For those that railfan the West-Slope near Johnstown Pa, this is a good spot on the end of a dead-end street where you can get some nice action on the NS Main on a curve, near signals, on top of a defect detector....Info on how to find the location is contained within that Trainorders thread, http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?2,841059 Dave Williams http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nsaltoonajohnstown