HR616 and Wal-Mart intermodal?

[Anonymous]

Lake State Railway (former Detroit & Mackinac) has a HR412, their number 698. ex- CN 3583 built in 1981. The unit was retired from the CN roster in 1996. Sold to the LSRC in June / July of 1998 along with an M420, making it one of the newer additions to the Lake State Railway's Roster. http://groups.msn.com/LakeStateRailway/698.msnw for a picture.

[Grinandbearit]

The HR line of locos were built by Bombardier after the take over of MLW. HR412s built in 1981, HR616s 1982. All were retired by 1998. Some of the HR616s went to NRE and there has been no word what has happened to them at NRE. At least 6 of the HR412s went to short lines and may be still working.

[Junctionfan]

I haven't seen Wal-Mart trailers on trains in Canada but I have seen Canadian Tire and The Bay/ Zellers trailers and domestic containers on CP. The trailers I saw in a picture of the Windsor bound Expressway and the containers on a Western Canada bound stack train.

Most of the retail and other goods use private companies. We don't use carriers like APL and Pacer Stack Train overly much though. With CN it's their own containers, Trans-X, Kindersley, Kleyson, Vitrans, Trans West, and Clark Transport. With CP its somewhat mixed but often close to just CP's own, Bay/ Zellars and Canadian Tire.

[karen3172]

Guys, Thx for all the info
Ron

[M636C]

Dave,

I'm without any references right now, but I think Adrian is right and that CN had no safety cab six motor Alco/MLW power, except for the HR 616, which was a cowl unit with the "Draper Taper". That would suggest that BCR were the only users of the M630 with wide nose cab. The Wide Nose version of the M636 was offered to Mt Newman Mining in Australia, but it would not have fitted through the old car dumper obtained from the Oroville Dam construction line and we got standard cabs instead. That batch of units was delivered mid 1976. I don't think anybody was unhappy that we didn't get the new cab at the time!

My understanding is that the "HR" line was basically the same as the preceding "M" line locomotives, but addressed areas that customers had been asking for improvements, such as the camshaft mounts on the 251 engine. Apart from CN's HR412s (which were wide nose hood units) and the HR616 Cowl units, a single demonstrator HR 412 was built, using the engine from the prototype LRC locomotive. It was later scrapped, I believe.

CN and Providence and Worcester did have M420s with wide noses and Mexico had some wide nose M424s, if I recall all that correctly, but I think only BCR had six axle MLWs with wide noses.

Peter

[broncoman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

This is amazing - nobody has owned up to knowing anything about the HR616!

The HR616 is the last development of the 16 cylinder Alco/MLW freight unit, and can be regarded as a cowl version of the M630 or C630M. "HR" stood for "High Reliability". The HR616 uses an updated version of the Alco 251 engine, known as the "251 plus", which had additional support for the camshafts, which were the "Achilles Heel" of the 251F in the C636. They used current GE motors and electrical equipment, equivalent to the Dash 7 (I think). They were rated a bit more conservatively, 200 HP per cylinder, giving 3200 HP for the HR 616. The body was the then standard CN Cowl with "Draper Taper". An HR 412 was also built, which looked like an M424 but it had two vertical radiators instead of the single horizontal radiator on the M-line units. The HR616 however, had a horizontal radiator like the M630.

Peter

Was B.C. Rail the only one that had a m63x with a wide cab. is this a HR with a different body of something completely different. Peter?

Dave

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by csxns

I also saw Wal-Mart and Sams Club trailers on rail and a friend of mine that works for a intermodal yard said they were new trailers being shiped to them because it was cheaper.

This is true. Also it could be that Wal-Mart dosent have enough trailers in an area of the country. Some trucking companies do this. Put empties on the rails just to get them to an area of the country where business is good and worth needing the extra equipment. Also Wal-Mart transportation, after delivering loads to the store, will often haul goods from manufacturers to their DC's acting as a for hire carrier. I've heard that the trucking side of Wal-Mart is one of the biggest money makers for Wal-Mart. Their drivers are a class act. Not just anybody can drive for Wally World.

[csxns]

I also saw Wal-Mart and Sams Club trailers on rail and a friend of mine that works for a intermodal yard said they were new trailers being shiped to them because it was cheaper.

[M636C]

This is amazing - nobody has owned up to knowing anything about the HR616!

The HR616 is the last development of the 16 cylinder Alco/MLW freight unit, and can be regarded as a cowl version of the M630 or C630M. "HR" stood for "High Reliability". The HR616 uses an updated version of the Alco 251 engine, known as the "251 plus", which had additional support for the camshafts, which were the "Achilles Heel" of the 251F in the C636. They used current GE motors and electrical equipment, equivalent to the Dash 7 (I think). They were rated a bit more conservatively, 200 HP per cylinder, giving 3200 HP for the HR 616. The body was the then standard CN Cowl with "Draper Taper". An HR 412 was also built, which looked like an M424 but it had two vertical radiators instead of the single horizontal radiator on the M-line units. The HR616 however, had a horizontal radiator like the M630.

Peter

[ericsp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by andrewjonathon

Once about five years ago I did see in LA a train with about 20 of Walmart trailers on a UP train heading east. It jumped out at me because I had never seen any Walmart trailers on any train before. Did Walmart briefly attempt to extend intermodal use by shipping some trailers from the distibution centers to closer to some stores or was this an anomally?

Before BC Rail quit intermodal service from Vancouver to Prince George you would regularly see both Safeway and Overweightea (another grocery store chain) trailers on the train. I believe those were loads that would then be trucked directly to the stores. So it has been done before.

There is a grocery store chain with overweight in its name?[(-D]

[andrewjonathon]

Once about five years ago I did see in LA a train with about 20 of Walmart trailers on a UP train heading east. It jumped out at me because I had never seen any Walmart trailers on any train before. Did Walmart briefly attempt to extend intermodal use by shipping some trailers from the distibution centers to closer to some stores or was this an anomally?

Before BC Rail quit intermodal service from Vancouver to Prince George you would regularly see both Safeway and Overweightea (another grocery store chain) trailers on the train. I believe those were loads that would then be trucked directly to the stores. So it has been done before.

[Anonymous]

WalMart is one of the largest intermodal shippers in the US. Betcha you're surprised to hear that. However, they don't do this directly. Rather, they hire large truckload and IMC carriers to handle it for them (i.e. Schneider National was WalMart's Intermodal Carrier of the Yr. last year.) They use JB Hunt a great deal as well and several others. I believe that their strategy is to allow these carrier to do what they do best in service to WalMart. Sooooo - what about all those WalMart tractors and trailers you say?????

WalMart works with these intermodal providers to move the freight from the import consolidators to a WalMart Distribution Center (mega-warehouse). ...or the intermodal provider takes the product from domestic vendors to the distrib center. Then WalMart uses their own private fleet of tractors and trailers to move the product, on demand from the distrib centers to the store.

The other big US retailers are also big users of intermodal - they do it in a similar way through intermodal carriers.

There's a lot of value in this model for the retailer because they don't have to have the expertise and contract in managing rail moves. They don't need to have the intermodal compatible equipment (trailers / containers), they don't need to manage local drayage (trucking) and they don't have to try to create balance to get equipment into markets where the demand lies. All this stuff gets done by the intermodal providers that they hire.

If you look at the AAR stats on intermodal traffic, you'll see how it spikes up greatly from Sept 1st to about Thanksgiving. That's the fall retail surge riding on the rail with these intermodal providers.

[Anonymous]

I know Wal-Mart used to put trailers on CR intermodals (one of the few good things Wal-Mart did), I forget when I stopped seeing them.

[karen3172]

Anybody have info on the HR616? I think these were owned by the CN and operated until several years ago....Also didn't Wal-Mart use intermodal for a very short period of time maybe a couple years ago?