jeffhergert I was looking through some old RITS newsletters and there was a question about the SSW and Golden State Route. The SSW begain operations at midnight on March 24, 1980. Jeff
I was looking through some old RITS newsletters and there was a question about the SSW and Golden State Route. The SSW begain operations at midnight on March 24, 1980.
Jeff
One of my RI magazines did a 3 part story on StL to KC. It said the track was in fairly decent shape until the late 1970s when the RI ran some coal trains to the power plant at (IIRC) Labadie. Pounded the track into the ground. (Reminds me of the story when the CNW Engineering Dept was asked if they could run a coal train across the old Cowboy line. The answer was "Yes, you could run one, but you couldn't run another.") The second to last engineer's class on the RI was because of the need for extra crews on the line. Normally two crews ran between StL and KC, changing at Eldon MO. After the track fell apart crews often couldn't make Eldon in their HOS.
In the late 1970s, RI experimented with "Movement by Voice Control" between StL and KC. A cross between TWC and DTC. I believe SSW also tested out DTC on the section they operated on the east end.
When SSW started operating over UP/MP, the crews at first went on/off duty at Eldon and were transported to Jeff City.
Actively railfanning the St. Louis area in the 1960's, I mainly think of the SSW on the MoPac river line down the Illinois side through Chester to the Thebes Bridge, and into southeast Missouri. I recall the trains running due west out of St. Louis, were the MoPac and Wabash. In the Greater St. Louis area, I don't ever recall seeing SSW power on the St. Louis side of the Mississippi.
Perhaps the STL-KC corridor could be classified as an extension of the Golden St. Very importion part of the SP/SSW. Frailey did an extensive coverage of the MO portion of SSW in April '88. Goood read. Check it out. In his Blue Streak book, If I recall, Fred metioned the first SSW trains operated across MO 1/6/83. W/traffic shifted away from the traditional Cotton Belt, those positions were relocated to the new home terminal at Jeff City. A friend of mine still lives between Jeff and Sedalia right across from the UP mainline. Yrs ago, he kept a tally for me of the SSW trains that passed by his house. I will look at those and may post some of the train counts to give an idea on what life was like w/SSW trains on the UP across the Show Me State
Jeff: Your answer got it mostly right. They tried a few through trains with disastrous results. Bad tie condition and awful surfacing made everything but the ends too slow to use except for locals. The Rock had already killed off all of the on-line business west of Eldon all the way to Chilohee (effectively the middle half of the line), so it wasn't hard to walk away and pay off the few potential Ag and timber/charcoal operations (like Kingsford) to switch to trucks. As DC will second, Santa Fe looked at it hard, but SSW succeeded in denying the potential market to ATSF (who actually helped build the line only to lose it), KC to StL
CSSHEGEWISCH I think that it referred to the Kansas City-Tucumcari line after SP/SSW obtained the line.
I think that it referred to the Kansas City-Tucumcari line after SP/SSW obtained the line.
St Louis to Tucumcari. Although most of the Missouri portion was out of service. SSW was eventually able to negotiate trackage rights between KC and St Louis on the UP/MP. I don't think SSW ever ran through freights across Missouri until they were able to get the trackage rights, which I think was a concession from when the UP was acquiring the MP.
This seems like an appropriate place to ask this question:
For years, I've heard the term "Cotton Rock' in relation to the Rock Island. Is it the [RI/SP] Golden State Route from KC through Kansas, Oklahoma and into New Mexico? For the longest I had thought it referred to a relationship between the Cotton Belt and the Rock Island, but now I am not so sure?
Thanks!
I believe you're right about the SSW taking over after 4-1-80, operating under directed service orders until actual ownership. RI and SP agreed to the purchase in 1978. Other parts of the RI were operated under individual orders immediately after the order authorizing the KCT to operate the entire RI from about October 1979 until March 31 1980. Most of those were segments where potential buyers were negotiating with the trustee while operating them. The KCT directed service was on a cost plus (IIRC) 5%. Those ICC orders after 3-31-80 did not have those terms.
On one of my RI facebook groups, someone posted a picture of SSW's notice for RI employee bids for openings. I believe it was for clerks, the notice having been typed out on a RI train location line-up form. I've been looking for it, but can't find it. I think one of the groups also has a picture of the last RI train and first SSW train at Herington KS. I can't find then either. It's been a few years since I saw these items.
In my dusty files I came across Wichita Eagle article dated 8/31/79 which stated RI was looking to sell off the Golden St Route. On 1/4/80 it was reported SP filed an application to obtain the KC-Tumcari line. It is only a self guess SP/SSW began operating the line right after the 3/31/80 termination of the Rock. Ths would have been per the ICC direct service order.
A former pastor of mine was a fan of the Rock and witnessed the final such train passing near McPherson that day. His small group of friends waved at the train, the crew waved back.
As this nears 40 yrs, finding undocumented information on the topic has proven to be a challenge. Memory fades w/time and all the SSW employees that came from the RI along the Golden St are retired. Some sadly are no longer w/us. This is why it is so important to get out and talk w/these guys while they can still do so and get their stories documented in some form.
According to Extra 2200 South issue #69 the Southern Pacific began operating trains over the "Tucumcari" line on Tuesday December 4, 1979. The news bit does not state exactly how many miles of Rock Island track were to be operated by SP.
Ed in Kentucky
mudchickenPSR has pushed Uncle Pete over into the world of starving and stupid. (Engineering was decimated. All the institutional memory is fading quickly.
Unfortunately, fiche may be all you have if what you are looking for fell in the 1976-1996 era and it didn't make it to the bound volumes of the ICC (1st or 2nd series)... The files may have not gotten to Archives. (The first scandal with records being lost to negligence. The second scandal may be the closing and elimination of the STB Library. Time will tell.)
Trivial thing about the docket number (Finance Docket No. 29144F). The "F" at the end got me wracking my brain (or what's left of it). I remembered that it meant something, but couldn't recall what it was.
I just remembered. The F stood for "Fiche". It meant the ICC's file was on micro-fiche, a long obsolete technoogy that went out roughly the same time as Beta video tapes. Ignore it when searching for ICC decisions or orders.
With the docket numbers Mudchicken provided, you should be able to find something authoritative. The key one would seem to be Finance Docket No. 29144F. Start with the Hawkins Digest mentioned in my earlier note - it has a docket citator which should show references to all of the decisions in the docket and where to find them in the bound volumes of ICC reports.
Falcon is correct on the "federal register" (brain fart here)
Weirdism with the Tucumcari line is the fact that SSW bought all of it west of Herrington 10-30-80, East of Herrington was bought in two pieces 10-30-80 (first half) and 10-8-82 (second half) ...per UPRR track chart top notes
[Damn shame that STB shut down the STB library last year - Fred F & Co have their work cut out]
Dockets to get started:
FD-27872 = 3-17-75 Bankruptcy .... AB43_21(f) 8/27/79 fire sale ....FD-29144(f) 9/22/79 OFA sale & interim directed service by SSW...AB46_22 = the end (4-24-80)
Good luck finding a survivor at Omaha - PSR has pushed Uncle Pete over into the world of starving and stupid. (Engineering was decimated. All the institutional memory is fading quickly.)
I have a very hazy recollection of this, but "very hazy" is still the operative term. After all, it was nearly 40 years ago. These days, I can't remember where I left my socks the night before.
Subject to that caveat, I don't think that the CRIP KC-Tucumcari line was out of service for any extended period (if at all) after the CRIP shutdown. My recollection is that the Cotton Belt got its own directed service order from the ICC (apart from the KCT order) allowing them to take over operations of the line pending completion of the sale.
As far as finding documentation, the bound ICC volumes mentioned by Mudchicken are probably the best public resource. But if you go this route, make sure you go to a law library that also has the old "Hawkins" Index Digest, a finding service for old ICC decisions (I don't know if its available on line - it's long out of print). That would enable you to find ICC decisions by subject matter and by the name of the carriers. I assume directed service orders like this would be in the bound volumes, but there is definitely a possibility that they weren't (the ICC often issued "non-reported" decisions, even in seemingly important cases).
The "Federal Record" mentioned by Mudchicken is probably the "Federal Register" (a daily publication of Federal regulatory agency actions. The Federal Registers back to 1936 are all available on line https://www.govinfo.gov/app/collection/fr). Trouble is that, as far as I can tell, it's nearly impossible to find a specific case from the 1980's era unless you know the date of the Federal Register publication. Another complication is that there was a period around this time during which the ICC didn't publish its actions in Federal Register (it cost them money out of their budget). Instead, they used their own publication called "ICC Register". Good look finding a collection of those today.
Actually, the best way to go about this may be to go through Union Pacific (the successor to SSW) if you have a contact there. UP almost certainly has records of the Tucumcari line transaction and the ability to easily locate them. If you don't have a contact there, try the UP Museum in Council Bluffs.
One other possibility is to see if STB can help you. Try the Office of Public Assistance, Government Affairs and Complicance, 202-245-0236.
Good luck on that - there were ICC Directed Service Orders going back to bankruptcy in 1975. Kansas City Terminal (owned by 7 railroads at the time, down from as many as 12) was the designated operator for much of that, esp 1978-80...
You need to find a library with bound volumes of the ICC or Federal Record for that period of time.
Can anyone shed some light on when SSW began running trains over the KC-Tucumcari Golden St Route? Cotton Belt acquited the property in 10/80. Were they providing service on a lease w/RI right after the shutdown 3/80? Just trying to find if there was any active service in that seven month span in 1980
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