jeffhergert tree68 Probably more difficult is tracking the hours one is not working. Such factors as deadhead time and co-mingled service can affect that. And I'm no expert. A problem we encounter on a tourist line is, f'rinstance, cleaning the train at the end of the day. We're no longer actually running the train in conventional HOS terms, but we are doing work "at the behest of the railroad." To properly document this, we have to note what time we secured the train (actual HOS), and the time we spent on the property doing other things (cleaning the train, paperwork, etc). That said, there are requirements for time off duty which also have to be met. That can be fairly easy if you're working a regular scheduled job, but if you're running in a pool it can get more complicated. And, after so many hours total, you must take a day or so off. And, yes, we have to do all of that even though we are volunteers... Our dispatchers have access to HOS information for on-duty crews. On their computer display, the train symbol also flashes and/or change colors at different time points for the crew. I used to have the exact info, but I believe it's at 6hrs and 2hrs on duty when the display changes. It doesn't relieve a crew from alerting the dispatcher at the two hour mark. Sometimes, the crew information (who's actually on the train) may change and the computer didn't update or the engineer and conductor may have different on-duty times. The other day I was pulled off my regular assignment to go dog catching. I was on duty about 50 minutes before my conductor because they had trouble finding a rested conductor. We relieved a train with the same condition, the engineer was on-duty about an hour ahead of the conductor. Once one crewmember is dead on the law, the other is too for all practical purposes. For tracking HOS day to day, the computer does that now for us. When tying up, it will give previous time off. Once tied up it shows when legal rest time ends, taking into account whether you need extra rest because of being released over 12 hours. It keeps track of monthly total hours worked, limbo time (time between 12 hours on duty and final release.) and consecutive tours of duty worked for Federal rest requirements. The computer will automatically mark us off "FR" when the maximum is met. Jeff
tree68 Probably more difficult is tracking the hours one is not working. Such factors as deadhead time and co-mingled service can affect that. And I'm no expert. A problem we encounter on a tourist line is, f'rinstance, cleaning the train at the end of the day. We're no longer actually running the train in conventional HOS terms, but we are doing work "at the behest of the railroad." To properly document this, we have to note what time we secured the train (actual HOS), and the time we spent on the property doing other things (cleaning the train, paperwork, etc). That said, there are requirements for time off duty which also have to be met. That can be fairly easy if you're working a regular scheduled job, but if you're running in a pool it can get more complicated. And, after so many hours total, you must take a day or so off. And, yes, we have to do all of that even though we are volunteers...
Probably more difficult is tracking the hours one is not working.
Such factors as deadhead time and co-mingled service can affect that.
And I'm no expert.
A problem we encounter on a tourist line is, f'rinstance, cleaning the train at the end of the day. We're no longer actually running the train in conventional HOS terms, but we are doing work "at the behest of the railroad." To properly document this, we have to note what time we secured the train (actual HOS), and the time we spent on the property doing other things (cleaning the train, paperwork, etc).
That said, there are requirements for time off duty which also have to be met. That can be fairly easy if you're working a regular scheduled job, but if you're running in a pool it can get more complicated.
And, after so many hours total, you must take a day or so off.
And, yes, we have to do all of that even though we are volunteers...
Our dispatchers have access to HOS information for on-duty crews. On their computer display, the train symbol also flashes and/or change colors at different time points for the crew. I used to have the exact info, but I believe it's at 6hrs and 2hrs on duty when the display changes. It doesn't relieve a crew from alerting the dispatcher at the two hour mark. Sometimes, the crew information (who's actually on the train) may change and the computer didn't update or the engineer and conductor may have different on-duty times. The other day I was pulled off my regular assignment to go dog catching. I was on duty about 50 minutes before my conductor because they had trouble finding a rested conductor. We relieved a train with the same condition, the engineer was on-duty about an hour ahead of the conductor. Once one crewmember is dead on the law, the other is too for all practical purposes.
For tracking HOS day to day, the computer does that now for us. When tying up, it will give previous time off. Once tied up it shows when legal rest time ends, taking into account whether you need extra rest because of being released over 12 hours. It keeps track of monthly total hours worked, limbo time (time between 12 hours on duty and final release.) and consecutive tours of duty worked for Federal rest requirements. The computer will automatically mark us off "FR" when the maximum is met.
Jeff
The vendor that the UP uses is used by most other railroads, too - PST of Boulder CO. They were spun off by D&RGW.
The same system is the one that the crew call system used to call crews for trains.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
tree68 jeffhergert I think our timekeeping is still comletely in-house, but they seem to be denying almost everything including claims that were always paid promptly in the past. Sounds like they're taking a cue from the health insurance industry. I'm involved with a not-for-profit ambulance service and it's not unusual for a claim to have to be re-submitted at least once to get paid. Oftimes nothing is changed - they just reject the claims out-of-hand the first time.
jeffhergert I think our timekeeping is still comletely in-house, but they seem to be denying almost everything including claims that were always paid promptly in the past.
Sounds like they're taking a cue from the health insurance industry. I'm involved with a not-for-profit ambulance service and it's not unusual for a claim to have to be re-submitted at least once to get paid. Oftimes nothing is changed - they just reject the claims out-of-hand the first time.
Healthcare providers initially don't know the difference between Medicare and Railroad Medicare - they find out soon enough.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
jeffhergertI think our timekeeping is still comletely in-house, but they seem to be denying almost everything including claims that were always paid promptly in the past.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
I think our timekeeping is still comletely in-house, but they seem to be denying almost everything including claims that were always paid promptly in the past. I think they know a certain percentage won't follow through and process their claims for the arbitration process. Even the ones that do follow through may not get resolved and paid for many years.
Jeff: Someone stated some timekeeping functions have been farmed out. We have one such person that is declining RO's, which never has happened until recently. I have 8 already this yr from our job and 8 declines. Like always, they will be paid in claims conference in about 6 months.
Our timekeeping is a funny animal. I've had mileage claims that were correct cut, and then have to go through the appeals process to get the proper pay. Then other times, usually on the extra board when doing other company service (simulator time, rules, etc.), where I put in for a single basic day they paid for the round trip I missed being off the board.
SFbrkmnIf you claim over miles, that will be declined. If you claim under miles, timekeeping will not adjust that.
Tails = You loose, Heads = They win.
It is each employees responsibility to claim pay for each trip correcty. If you claim over miles, that will be declined. If you claim under miles, timekeeping will not adjust that. Has happened to me.
For HOS issues, it is always important when, for example, to let the DS know what time your crew goes DOL. Even though PTC keeps track of that, it never hurts to add the human element.
One trip, I showed up to work at my on duty time. I was like 6 or 7 out in line. Waited 4 hrs for train to arrive. In the meantime, there was constant swapping of crews. The final swap, the crew call office, swapped the on duty time of the crew behind me. Called in to get that issue resolved, so as both crews had the correct on duty time and not have records in false status. Once again, it is each employee's job to correctly let the higher ups know on what the hour service stands for each trip.
BaltACD Electroliner 1935 Back in the late fifties, when I was a co-op student working with a Signal & Communications gang, these guys knew what they were doing very well. Most claimed they knew little math but when payday came around and we all went to the bank to cash the paychecks, they knew to a penny what they were expecting and if it didn't match, the forman got an earful. Even those who would be classified 'functional illiterates' know to the penny what they expect to be paid each pay period. They may not be able to rear or write but they could sure figure!
Electroliner 1935 Back in the late fifties, when I was a co-op student working with a Signal & Communications gang, these guys knew what they were doing very well. Most claimed they knew little math but when payday came around and we all went to the bank to cash the paychecks, they knew to a penny what they were expecting and if it didn't match, the forman got an earful.
Back in the late fifties, when I was a co-op student working with a Signal & Communications gang, these guys knew what they were doing very well. Most claimed they knew little math but when payday came around and we all went to the bank to cash the paychecks, they knew to a penny what they were expecting and if it didn't match, the forman got an earful.
Even those who would be classified 'functional illiterates' know to the penny what they expect to be paid each pay period. They may not be able to rear or write but they could sure figure!
I have an engineer's logbook from the 1950's. Not only does it list when and where he worked, but also the type of assignment and the locomotives involved.
The last column is how much he made for the trip.
Back in the late fifties, when I was a co-op student working with a Signal & Communications gang, these guys knew what they were doing very well. Most claimed they knew little math but when payday came around and we all went to the bank to cash the paychecks, they knew to a penny what they were expecting and if it didn't match, the forman got an earful. When assigned to a gang and living in camp cars alongside the main line in Greenfield IN, RR paid for a cook. Each man paid $5.00 to the cook and he would buy the groceries for the week. He cooked on a coal stove and would bake pies, fried chicken, beans every meal. My mother thought that was a good deal.
One thing I can never forget, the camp train was parked on a siding with one track between our siding and the double track main line between Indianapolis and Richmond. The passenger trains would be doing 80mph + (line was cab signalled) and laying on the horn going through downtown Greenfield. First night in the bunk, it sounded like the train was coming through the car. Scared me wide awake and I hit my head on the ceiling as I woke up. By the end of the second week, I could roll over and think "there's #30" and fall back to sleep. It amazing how the body can adapt.
Wish I could go back and see those great guys.
caldreamerCarl: So what you are saying is that the crew keeps track of their own time and notifies the dispatcher whrn it is close to HOW if I understand you correctly. Caldreamer
So what you are saying is that the crew keeps track of their own time and notifies the dispatcher whrn it is close to HOW if I understand you correctly.
Caldreamer
Crew members are responsible for knowing their own HOS status. On CSX road crew members are required to notify the Train Dispatcher two hours in advance of their HOS time. In yard service the Yardmaster is to be notified; the normal yard day is eight hours, however, in many cases crew members may accept to work a following shift for four hours.
The only time this gets 'tricky' is during the time changes from Standard to Daylight or vice versa. The HOS law specifies 12 actual hours on duty. If one goes on duty at 0100 Standard time when the time changes to Daylight at 0200, with the time becomeing 0300 at that time. The crew will go HOS at 1400 Daylight time. Going the other way a crew that goes on duty at 0100 Daylight will go HOS at 1200 Standard on the change over period. Crews will always argue their case to their own personal benefit with this confusion.
Carl:
Not a problem at all. You get the call for a given time, and that's on the record. Your on-duty time doesn't change no matter when your train finally leaves. Things like initial terminal delay, etc., are noted and documented by the crew because they get paid additional for too much time in the terminal.The crew was supposed to notify the dispatcher as a reminder when it is getting close to their hours-of-service expiration, so that event can be dealt with. Somebody with recent road service experience can better explain some of the nuances and consequences with such thing. But timekeeping is not really a problem.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Say that I work for BNSF, UP, CN or any other railroad. I am a conductor or engineer of a train. Who keeps track of my hours of work, so I do not go over the legal limit? I do not think it would be the dispatcher, since he has enough to do keeping track of the trains in his territory.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.