Trains.com

Demurrage charges

1754 views
8 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: Atlanta
  • 11,971 posts
Posted by oltmannd on Monday, February 11, 2019 11:48 AM

BaltACD

 

 
Murphy Siding
Over the past year BNSF has made some changes that have made our situation much more predictable and practical. We are charged $150 a day after our 48 hours. As yet, we've never run past that. I was curious what incentive BNSF has to get cars back faster. 

 

Per Diem car hire doesn't come anywhere close to $150 a day.

 

An order of magnitude less for most car types.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, February 10, 2019 8:10 AM

SD70Dude
 
BaltACD
Murphy Siding
Over the past year BNSF has made some changes that have made our situation much more predictable and practical. We are charged $150 a day after our 48 hours. As yet, we've never run past that. I was curious what incentive BNSF has to get cars back faster. 

Per Diem car hire doesn't come anywhere close to $150 a day. 

Gotta leave room for profit!

For a variety of reasons BNSF may end up with more cars than your spur can hold, cars on your spur will then be in the way, preventing the rest from being spotted.  The extra cars have to wait on BNSF track, hogging space and incurring per deim charges.  All the more reason to "incentivize" customers like you to release cars faster.

Contracts for Unit Train services normally allow 24 hours for loading and 24 hours for unloading the entire train of whatever specified size - 80 - 90 - 100 - 110 - 120 or 130 cars.  There are penalties for exceeding the time limits, however, I have no idea what those financial penalties are.

Demurrage is not looked upon as a profit center but as a tool to keep the car fleet moving.  Like anything else in commerce - the need for particular types of cars ebb and flow and that is the reason you are seeing more private owner initials on cars that started life as railroad owned cars - trying to put the burden of ownership on third parties - a financial deal.  Carriers get a one time financial windfall for selling the cars to the leasor, then end up paying the leasor for only the time they are using the cars.  Financial ledger juggling.

Trailer Train, a company that is owned by all the railrods, end up supplying an number of 'specality' car types - trailer & container cars, bulkhead flats, auto racks, RBOX - Box cars, GONX - gondolas.  I don't fully understand the financial workings between Trailer Train and Carriers and how that applies to demurrage for rail customers and per diem for the carriers.  With the auto racks, Trailer Train owns the cars and the carriers own the rack and you see that ownership displayed on the rack itself, while the car has some form of a TTX car number. 

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    December 2017
  • From: I've been everywhere, man
  • 4,269 posts
Posted by SD70Dude on Sunday, February 10, 2019 12:00 AM

BaltACD
Murphy Siding
Over the past year BNSF has made some changes that have made our situation much more predictable and practical. We are charged $150 a day after our 48 hours. As yet, we've never run past that. I was curious what incentive BNSF has to get cars back faster. 

Per Diem car hire doesn't come anywhere close to $150 a day.

Gotta leave room for profit!

For a variety of reasons BNSF may end up with more cars than your spur can hold, cars on your spur will then be in the way, preventing the rest from being spotted.  The extra cars have to wait on BNSF track, hogging space and incurring per deim charges.  All the more reason to "incentivize" customers like you to release cars faster.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, February 9, 2019 10:46 PM

Murphy Siding
Over the past year BNSF has made some changes that have made our situation much more predictable and practical. We are charged $150 a day after our 48 hours. As yet, we've never run past that. I was curious what incentive BNSF has to get cars back faster. 

Per Diem car hire doesn't come anywhere close to $150 a day.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 13,569 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Saturday, February 9, 2019 6:10 PM

Over the past year BNSF has made some changes that have made our situation much more predictable and practical. We are charged $150 a day after our 48 hours. As yet, we've never run past that. I was curious what incentive BNSF has to get cars back faster. 

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, February 9, 2019 1:41 PM

Murphy Siding
     When we get a carload of lumber in we have 48 hours to unload and release the car before demurrage charges are applied. The clock starts at midnight on the day we receive the car. After it’s released, the car generally sits there for 3-5 days until BNSF picks it up again. Most are CN cars with a few CP cars. Does BNSF pay a demurrage charge to the Canadian railroads? 

In the past you have made posts concerning watching your shipments moving past your facility several times before they actually got spotted on your track.  The same operating conditions that caused your facility to be bypassed in spotting your car also apply to having time to pull the car(s) empty.  I am not excusing the carrier for doing this, just stating that the same conditions apply and the same actions are being taken.

Finding time to work customers on a single track line CAN be a problem.  It is a problem operations AND customer service NEED to work together to solve.  Easy to say and harder to do.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • 4,557 posts
Posted by Convicted One on Saturday, February 9, 2019 1:31 PM

greyhounds
necessary to prevent the car from being used for free storage space.  Something that will happen.

Funny you would mention that.  When I first read this thread it made me recall a time back when we were doing seismic retrofits to industrial buildings we owned in the San Jose-Oakland area. Several of the buildings were occupied, and we had to make temporary arrangements to move our tenants inventory out of our way to do the work. The buildings being railserved, it made sense to just rent a few box cars from Southern Pacific for the duration.

They were more than happy to cooperate, signed a two month rental agreement.

Cars delivered on schedule, did the work, called SP to tell them the cars were no longer needed......and there the cars remained....almost 5  months.

Made me think of all the demurrage charges I had heard people complain about over the years.

I guess it's purley a function of charging what the market (and the circumstances) will bear

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Antioch, IL
  • 4,371 posts
Posted by greyhounds on Saturday, February 9, 2019 12:43 PM

Unless things have changed, no.

Demurrage is a railroad charge to a shipper or receiver for holding the car beyond a certain amount of free time allowed for loading/unloading.  It is necessary to prevent the car from being used for free storage space.  Something that will happen.

BNSF will pay the owner of the car, if it's a railroad, an amount for each hour they have the car on the BNSF.  They will also pay for each mile it moves on the BNSF. This railroad to railroad charge is not called demurrage.  A long time ago it was called Per Diem and was a daily, not hourly, charge.  I've heard it called "Hourly Per Diem."   

 

"By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that.
  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 13,569 posts
Demurrage charges
Posted by Murphy Siding on Saturday, February 9, 2019 10:20 AM
     When we get a carload of lumber in we have 48 hours to unload and release the car before demurrage charges are applied. The clock starts at midnight on the day we receive the car. After it’s released, the car generally sits there for 3-5 days until BNSF picks it up again. Most are CN cars with a few CP cars. Does BNSF pay a demurrage charge to the Canadian railroads?  

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy