jeffhergertA day or two later a sand train takes out the junction switch between the Omaha and Blair Subs at Fremont, NE. Then a train derails at a control point about 10 miles west of Fremont. (Last month a coal train took out the control point about 5 miles east of Fremont on the Omaha Sub. They are just getting those switches back in.)
Sounds like UP knows how to pick ’em.
jeffhergert rdamon Good friend said some lumber cars went on the ground near Jefferson, IA tearing up a grade crossing on Sunday. And a wrong end drawbar, too. A day or two later a sand train takes out the junction switch between the Omaha and Blair Subs at Fremont, NE. Then a train derails at a control point about 10 miles west of Fremont. (Last month a coal train took out the control point about 5 miles east of Fremont on the Omaha Sub. They are just getting those switches back in.) At Clinton two engines and 6 cars went over a derail. The derail worked as intended. Throw in about one torn out drawbar a day, some right end - some wrong end, the past few days and you have a recipe for congestion. Jeff
rdamon Good friend said some lumber cars went on the ground near Jefferson, IA tearing up a grade crossing on Sunday.
Good friend said some lumber cars went on the ground near Jefferson, IA tearing up a grade crossing on Sunday.
And a wrong end drawbar, too. A day or two later a sand train takes out the junction switch between the Omaha and Blair Subs at Fremont, NE. Then a train derails at a control point about 10 miles west of Fremont. (Last month a coal train took out the control point about 5 miles east of Fremont on the Omaha Sub. They are just getting those switches back in.) At Clinton two engines and 6 cars went over a derail. The derail worked as intended. Throw in about one torn out drawbar a day, some right end - some wrong end, the past few days and you have a recipe for congestion.
Jeff
Sounds like Precision Scheduled Railroading to me. [/sarcasm]
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
jeffhergert Last night I was lucky to get a manifest that had a set out at my home terminal. The set out (a little over 20 cars)was in the middle of the train. We held onto a little over 50 cars while leaving about the same number tied down, in emergency on the main. When we were back on the train, I noted it took about 10 to 12 minutes to get the train line pumped up to 75 psi at the rear of the train as displayed by the EOT. (I noted the time when air first started rising from 0 on the EOT, but missed by a minute or two when it hit 75 psi.) We run our train line pressure at 90 psi, 75 psi at the rear is the minimum needed to do a Class 3, application and release, air test. Under some circumstances, air flow would need to be 60 cfm or less, but in our situation it wasn't required. I did note that cfm was just under 60 cfm when the EOT reached 75. I made the set and release, noting the rise and fall of pressure on the EOT. We were good to go. Then we shoved the train back clear of a control point and tied it down. We had waited 5 1/2 hours for the train to show up. The set out took about 90 minutes so they decided to tie us up because we wouldn't make our destination on our HOS. There's been a lot of congestion lately due to a few derailments in vital places that stopped some trains, caused others to be rerouted. Jeff
Last night I was lucky to get a manifest that had a set out at my home terminal. The set out (a little over 20 cars)was in the middle of the train. We held onto a little over 50 cars while leaving about the same number tied down, in emergency on the main. When we were back on the train, I noted it took about 10 to 12 minutes to get the train line pumped up to 75 psi at the rear of the train as displayed by the EOT. (I noted the time when air first started rising from 0 on the EOT, but missed by a minute or two when it hit 75 psi.) We run our train line pressure at 90 psi, 75 psi at the rear is the minimum needed to do a Class 3, application and release, air test. Under some circumstances, air flow would need to be 60 cfm or less, but in our situation it wasn't required. I did note that cfm was just under 60 cfm when the EOT reached 75. I made the set and release, noting the rise and fall of pressure on the EOT. We were good to go.
Then we shoved the train back clear of a control point and tied it down. We had waited 5 1/2 hours for the train to show up. The set out took about 90 minutes so they decided to tie us up because we wouldn't make our destination on our HOS. There's been a lot of congestion lately due to a few derailments in vital places that stopped some trains, caused others to be rerouted.
Great example. Just what I was looking for.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
EuclidWhere exactly are the 1/32" dia. holes? I am not sure I understand the purpose. I suspect that it is to more clearly separate the quick action feature of the emgerncy application from a service application. Or maybe it is to slow down the service application, so it propagates more evenly thoughout the train.
It's part of the brake valve on each car. It's purpose (as already stated) is to recharge the reservoir.
That port is only opened when the brakes are released, allowing air from the brake pipe to go to the reservoir, recharging it. It has nothing to do with applying the brakes, as such.
A really good read on train brakes is Al Krug's primer: http://www.railway-technical.com/trains/rolling-stock-index-l/train-equipment/brakes/north-american-freight.html
I highly recommend it.
New brake valves are a little more complicated, and include features such as using a bit of air from the emergency reservoir to more quickly propogate the release.
The "triple valve" term is actually obsolete, although the current "control valve" does the same thing. Some prefer to use the model number (AB, ABD).
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
SD70Dude Euclid Where exactly are the 1/32" dia. holes? I am not sure I understand the purpose. I suspect that it is to more clearly separate the quick action feature of the emgerncy application from a service application. Or maybe it is to slow down the service application, so it propagates more evenly thoughout the train. I was told the small hole is 3/32", and believe the technical term is "charging choke" or "charging port". It is at the point marked "feed groove" in this simplified illustrations in this article: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-derailed-canadian-pacific-freight-train-began-moving-on-its-own-after/ Their purpose is to get all the cars in the train to charge at roughly the same rate, if the charging ports were larger cars near the head end would charge up quickly while those closer to the tail end would get almost no air for a long time. On long trains this means that the whole train will release relatively quickly, without the small charging ports it would be a lot easier to get a broken knuckle from the head end being completely released long before the tail end started to.
Euclid Where exactly are the 1/32" dia. holes? I am not sure I understand the purpose. I suspect that it is to more clearly separate the quick action feature of the emgerncy application from a service application. Or maybe it is to slow down the service application, so it propagates more evenly thoughout the train.
Where exactly are the 1/32" dia. holes? I am not sure I understand the purpose. I suspect that it is to more clearly separate the quick action feature of the emgerncy application from a service application.
Or maybe it is to slow down the service application, so it propagates more evenly thoughout the train.
I was told the small hole is 3/32", and believe the technical term is "charging choke" or "charging port". It is at the point marked "feed groove" in this simplified illustrations in this article:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-derailed-canadian-pacific-freight-train-began-moving-on-its-own-after/
Their purpose is to get all the cars in the train to charge at roughly the same rate, if the charging ports were larger cars near the head end would charge up quickly while those closer to the tail end would get almost no air for a long time.
On long trains this means that the whole train will release relatively quickly, without the small charging ports it would be a lot easier to get a broken knuckle from the head end being completely released long before the tail end started to.
Okay, I see the feed groove and understand your explanation. The restrictions even out the release action. Thanks for pointing out that feature in the drawing.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Murphy SidingI don't understand how 1 car can take 7 minutes but you can do 50 cars in 11 minutes.
Same effect you see when pumping up a car tire with a constant-speed volume-limited pump. At first the pressure rise is slow as you have to fill the volume, then the speed (of psi rise) increases greatly once you get above 30psi or so.
tree68 Kevin C. Smith 1/32"? That seems mighty small for charging an air resovior! Not sayin' it ain't so...but, if it is, why such a restricted passage? Opening all of the reservoir inlets to a larger diameter would essentially bring the brake line down to whatever the pressure in the reservoirs was. By restricting it, the pressure in the brake line can be restored to near 90 lbs almost immediately while the reservoirs are still charging. Besides - you'd be surprised how much air you can get through such a tiny orifice.
Kevin C. Smith 1/32"? That seems mighty small for charging an air resovior! Not sayin' it ain't so...but, if it is, why such a restricted passage?
Opening all of the reservoir inlets to a larger diameter would essentially bring the brake line down to whatever the pressure in the reservoirs was. By restricting it, the pressure in the brake line can be restored to near 90 lbs almost immediately while the reservoirs are still charging.
Besides - you'd be surprised how much air you can get through such a tiny orifice.
One of the hazards of using the brakepipe for both control and power supply. 19th century genius, 21st century hangover.
Kevin C. Smith1/32"? That seems mighty small for charging an air resovior! Not sayin' it ain't so...but, if it is, why such a restricted passage?
Semper VaporoThe air is being pumped into the car's reservoir through a 1/32 inch diameter hole and that takes the 7 minutes, but the pump on the engine and the piping can move more air than that, so a 2nd car added won't take much more than 7 minutes either. But at 50 cars, that is pumping air through 50 1/32 inch holes and that will take a little more time.
1/32"? That seems mighty small for charging an air resovior! Not sayin' it ain't so...but, if it is, why such a restricted passage?
The air is being pumped into the car's reservoir through a 1/32 inch diameter hole and that takes the 7 minutes, but the pump on the engine and the piping can move more air than that, so a 2nd car added won't take much more than 7 minutes either. But at 50 cars, that is pumping air through 50 1/32 inch holes and that will take a little more time.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
tree68 The Conrail EC99 brake rules suggested the following charging times, for cars with empty reservoirs: 1 car - 7 minutes 50 cars - 8 to 11 minutes 100 cars - 18 to 25 minutes 150 cars - 35 to 50 minutes As SD70Dude notes, temperature, as well as general leakage on the train can make a difference. If any number of the cars still have at least a partial charge, that can make a difference, as well. Those times are essentially under ideal conditions. I've heard anecdotes of crews not being able to move their train during their tour of duty because it wouldn't charge. Our passenger cars also have water raising apparatus (for the toilets and sinks), which just adds to the amount of time necessary to charge a train.
The Conrail EC99 brake rules suggested the following charging times, for cars with empty reservoirs:
1 car - 7 minutes
50 cars - 8 to 11 minutes
100 cars - 18 to 25 minutes
150 cars - 35 to 50 minutes
As SD70Dude notes, temperature, as well as general leakage on the train can make a difference. If any number of the cars still have at least a partial charge, that can make a difference, as well. Those times are essentially under ideal conditions.
I've heard anecdotes of crews not being able to move their train during their tour of duty because it wouldn't charge.
Our passenger cars also have water raising apparatus (for the toilets and sinks), which just adds to the amount of time necessary to charge a train.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
What temperature are we talking?
Do I have a DP remote (CN allows us to bottle the air, as long as the remote will pressure-maintain the brake application)?
The answers vary from almost instantly to all night long if it's -40.
I've looked high and low on the interwebs for this. Suppose you have a generic 100 car manifest and you make a head end set out and pickup. Once you have the train back together, how long to get the air restored and underway? Ball-parky answers will suffice....
Thanks in advance.
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