I was an Oil King on a Navy Oiler and had to keep glass containers of the various fuels we carried, Navy Grade Special, Jet Fuel, and Av Gas. Bacteria grows in all of them.
Crossing the Bernina Pass from Switzerland into Italy is one of my favorite Swiss rail routes but one summer flooding rain cut the rail line and we could only go part way. It was a rare event. What amazes me about the rugged Swiss rail lines is that they stay open at all.
It is easy to laugh when weather is abnormal and to say how can the earth be warming when it is so cold? But there is a big difference between weather and climate -- there is a big difference between temperatures over a day or week and over a year or decade. Climate has changed in the past due to natural phenomenon but it is not possible to explain the present climate changes without considering human activity. Of course projections can be off and complicated analysis imperfect but the facts can not be ignored.
We haven't been to Switzerland to ride the rails in many years but I wonder how much of the spectacular snow fields and massive glaciers are left in August. I suspect I might be disappointed if I go again and I know warming is to blame.
Anyway, getting back to the Swiss Railways, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Like the Inuit peoples the Swiss have probably forgotten more about snow than the rest of us will ever know.
They'll deal with it.
charlie hebdo Not from what I read. In any case, whether high or low sulphur content, diesel fuel that sits in tanks for months has inherent problems.
Not from what I read. In any case, whether high or low sulphur content, diesel fuel that sits in tanks for months has inherent problems.
Of course jet fuel as well. Some places fuel goes into top of tank removed from bottom and always filtered.
OvermodI thought it was precisely the metabolic reduction of sulfate to sulfite by the (anaerobic) bacterial spp. that was producing the problem, for the SRB/SGB type of 'infection'.
charlie hebdo I think the H2S in older oil (pre-ultra low sulphur) that has some water content gave a pH 3.5 to 4.0. On the other hand, the sulphur inhibited microbe (bacteria, fungi, mold) growth.
I thought it was precisely the metabolic reduction of sulfate to sulfite by the (anaerobic) bacterial spp. that was producing the problem, for the SRB/SGB type of 'infection'. I expected ULSD to largely eliminate this problem.
The hormoconis resinae (fungal) is a more complicated thing.
Some oil is also pretty corrosive from acidic content. I think the H2S in older oil (pre-ultra low sulphur) that has some water content gave a pH 3.5 to 4.0. On the other hand, the sulphur inhibited microbe (bacteria, fungi, mold) growth. The microbes excrete acid. So problems all around.
SD70Dude Sounds a lot like the "jet fuel bugs" the Navy and Air Force had to deal with in Southeast Asia during the Vietnam War. zardoz BaltACD ...bacteria that live in the oil had eaten through the steel of the oil tank. Live in oil and eat steel? Sounds a bit extra-terrestrial.... They live at the water/oil interface, as a bit of water (maybe even just from condensation) builds up at the bottom of the tank, below the diesel. During one of the eastern ice storms 15 or 20 years ago CP couldn't get fuel deliveries to one of their main yards (either Toronto or Montreal), and ended up sucking every last drop out of their big storage tanks. When placed in the nice warm locomotives the microbes started to multiply... ...and units started to die out on the line from plugged fuel filters!
Sounds a lot like the "jet fuel bugs" the Navy and Air Force had to deal with in Southeast Asia during the Vietnam War.
zardoz BaltACD ...bacteria that live in the oil had eaten through the steel of the oil tank. Live in oil and eat steel? Sounds a bit extra-terrestrial....
BaltACD ...bacteria that live in the oil had eaten through the steel of the oil tank.
Live in oil and eat steel? Sounds a bit extra-terrestrial....
They live at the water/oil interface, as a bit of water (maybe even just from condensation) builds up at the bottom of the tank, below the diesel.
During one of the eastern ice storms 15 or 20 years ago CP couldn't get fuel deliveries to one of their main yards (either Toronto or Montreal), and ended up sucking every last drop out of their big storage tanks. When placed in the nice warm locomotives the microbes started to multiply... ...and units started to die out on the line from plugged fuel filters!
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
They are real - ate through the steel of the tank in about 35 years to the point that the steel was perferated and oil was seeping out of the trank.
CSX Bridge over the Anacostia River in DC that was rebuilt by ConRail in 1978 when inspected in 2006 was found to have the steel pilings that were driven in 1978 to have 25% of the installed dimensions left in 2006. The culprit was reported to be steel eating bacteria in the Anacostia River.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD...bacteria that live in the oil had eaten through the steel of the oil tank.
blue streak 1 BaltACD CMStPnP I think the big problem we will run into next is all those cottages and homes in the Northeast that burn oil still. Those still burning oil for heat most likely do not have access to gas - I know I don't. Don't forget about those persons who have service that are being served by very old pipes that have not been replaced. Anyone know if all the customers that lost service due to the over pressure problems near Boston have gotten their service back?
BaltACD CMStPnP I think the big problem we will run into next is all those cottages and homes in the Northeast that burn oil still. Those still burning oil for heat most likely do not have access to gas - I know I don't.
CMStPnP I think the big problem we will run into next is all those cottages and homes in the Northeast that burn oil still.
Those still burning oil for heat most likely do not have access to gas - I know I don't.
Don't forget about those persons who have service that are being served by very old pipes that have not been replaced. Anyone know if all the customers that lost service due to the over pressure problems near Boston have gotten their service back?
Don't forget about the 'rash' of natural gas explosions that have happened all over the country in the last 6 months of so.
Oil also has its own residual cost - I had to replace my oil tank 10 years ago as bacteria that live in the oil had eaten through the steel of the oil tank.
CMStPnPI think the big problem we will run into next is all those cottages and homes in the Northeast that burn oil still.
What I find humourous in this discussion is even though we withdrew from the treaty, we exceeded all the goals set for the United States for like the next 2-3 years due to the shift to Natural Gas from Coal by our major utilities. I think the big problem we will run into next is all those cottages and homes in the Northeast that burn oil still.
It will cost homeowners there a fortune to change those systems out for something cleaner burning and I just do not see that happening anytime soon.........especially once they see what their Federal Taxes are this year minus the deductions Uncle Sugar took away.
Among all the naysayers, is there one who actually does research in climatology (not meteorology)? But I suppose their opinions are dissed because they are part of some vast conspiracy for personal gain or a plot for one-world socialism?
Science has demonstrated that the Earth has been virtually everthing from a soild snowball to a worldwide sauna and everything in between - all without the help of human use of carbon based resources. That being said, I doubt that our current use of carbon based fuels to motivate our world is doing the climate any good. I don't know that human activity is ACTUALLY causing the worldwide increase of temperature or not - we know it happened in the past without any contribution from us.
RKFarmsOne of the few things that is demonstrable and repeatable is that as CO2 percentage goes up, more heat is trapped in a gas mixture, such as our atmosphere.
Not particularly 'demonstrable' or 'repeatable' as, in fact, not scientifically accurate.
I'm not going to start in with arguments to authority on "climate science" but at least read up on and understand the mechanisms by which AGW (or whatever the PC du jour term for it is now) is supposed to operate.
Additionally, why do you think that if the effects are "NOT known" reversing the recent trends in carbon release will "mitigate some of the possible effects" enough to justify prioritizing drastic reduction in carbon release as the Europeans are touting? Especially within the timescale needed to produce positive reversal, without oscillation, of the climatic heating tendency attributable strictly to anthropogenic (or human-associated, like cattle raising) sources.
Frankly, I think Intellectual Ventures alone knows more about ameliorating any possible effects of AGW on a global scale than most of the European politicians and politicized scientists put together. All you'd have to do is find the political will to commission them to do it, then implement and track the operations. (But what makes me keep thinking of Irving Langmuir?)
Shame the Swiss doen't seem to know much about snow...
whimsy/ ON
Maybe RhB will pull out its DampfSchneeSchleuder (Steam Rotary) Xrot d 9213 !
One of the few things that is demonstrable and repeatable is that as CO2 percentage goes up, more heat is trapped in a gas mixture, such as our atmosphere. What is NOT known is what that does world-wide. There is too much complexity in what our atmosphere does to model accurately. However, overall it is getting warmer, the arctic ocean has less ice cover, glaciers world-wide are retreating, and ice is moving faster from the antarctic highlands to lower areas. We need to be doing the best for our grandchildren by trying to mitigate some of the possible effects, and keep the GD palitics out of it. And don't confuse "climate" and "weather".
PR
retired midwest farmer
Have a friend who is one of the top professors in meterology. He says the problem is the computer models for forecasting that have been used as part of the global warming scenario have not panned out. For example, the earth should be much warmer and many of the ocean islands, particularly in the Pacific, should have been underwater by now if the computer models were correct. He told me that's the reason why AL Gore's former professor who started the global warming theory in the USA turned against the movement before he died. He also is very unhappy with the politics being involved with global warming. The one that especially set him off was the Obama administration's fudging the data before Obama went off to Paris by having the ocean temperature readings taken by moving ships (which apparently resulted in higher water readings) because the buoys normally used showed no increase in the oceans' temperatures. He also was not happy that the preliminary research by some Scandinavian scientists that underseas volcano activity in Anarticia could be happening was not followed up because of the political pressure from the global warming activists. Finally, he rejects the politicans that say your life has to be run by big centralized government because of global warming. Like 90% of US college professors he's a registered democrat but he's not a socialist. He feals Global warming is being used by the Socialists (which is what the European Labor party is) to achieve world-wide Socialism.
He tells me the current warming cycle basically started about 1840-1850 in the northern hemisphere. If it follows true to past paterns it should start going the other way approximately 200 years later. Traditionally, the most extreme period of a cycle is at the end of it. The unknown factors this time around are the growth in human population that's occurred and the world-wide industrialization.
He tells me the degree of the problem with CO2 is still unknown despite what the media and other groups. Complicating it is that whenever a major volcano erupts, it negates the worldwide CO2 suppression efforts for at least several years. He confimed what I already knew. The US actually was ahead of the majority of countries in CO2 suppression eforts for some years. But many of the countries involved in the Global Warming reduction program refused to give the US any credit for its prior effoprts. Obama gave in to them and agreed upon US reduction limits that would really hurt our economy while allowing the other major CO2 to have a much easier path to achieving their goals (specifically China, India, and Russia).
He feels reducing the use of coal is good but research on coal power plants who can significantly "trap" the CO2 should be pursued. That would be a safety valve if Global Cooling becomes a problem in 30 or so years. [His personal feeling is that the world can adapt to Global Warming easier than Global Cooling.] Finally, he agress with what has also been said that the Global Warming advocates never give enough credit to humans ability to adapt to changes which also reduces the impact of temperature changes.
He does believe there is a risk in regards to uncontrolled removal of forests, especially due to the deforestation of the Amazon as the prime example, but not near what the most alarmist reports are saying.
I agree. I have no doubt we're causing a lot of environmental damage, but at the same time I don't put much stock in many of the projections.
And not necessarily because of those two reasons, either. Modern climatology is still in its early days and it would be foolish to just assume that we have it all figured out.
But the call to action is a very real one. Even if the damage we're causing ends up having significantly smaller ramifications than we're worried, who wants to be able to tell someone a few generations down the road that we sat idly by (Not to mention that projections may prove accurate, or even be proven conservative in time)?
Can't wreck lives, but we have to do what's realistic to do, such as what we've seen with locomotive emission requirements. We're not seeing the feared doom and gloom happen such as a shortline being forced to park a GP9 the moment something like a power assembly requires replacement, yet this industry has taken great strides forward at the same time with its emissions.
It has its issues, but overall it has been implemented much better than was feared when the plans first were introduced 20 years or so ago. Freight traffic is still rolling, passengers are still being delivered to their destination, and very few locomotives have been retired or scrapped before the end of their economic lives just because of the EPA (And those that have been have been voluntary by their owners, in exchange for grants for modern replacements).
My thoughts exactly Tree.
Let me add that several months ago I watched a show on NatGeo where a scientist said there's a lot a people out there all to willing to play on the scientific and historic ignorance of people, and for two reasons, either they want your money or they want your votes. Very insightful.
MidlandMike...hopefully the rest of us will take seriously the warning of climate scientist.
Got no problem with the concept that the climate is changing - it's been doing that for millions of years. Krakatoa dropped worldwide temperatures by some three degrees.
The issue I have, and I think others do as well, is that humankind is solely responsible. Especially when people turn it into a moneymaker for themselves...
I've got no problem with doing what we can to mitigate it, either, but in the end, the climate is going to change no matter what we do.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Maybe during this cold spell in the Alps, their glaciers that have been receeding for the last century will stop melting so fast. And the Arctic high that has moved off the warming Polar region and settled over eastern Canada will temporarily remind the old timers of the old days, however, hopefully the rest of us will take seriously the warning of climate scientist.
Won't open that can of worms on the Forum except to say yesterday was -46C and today low is -48C. High -36 Subtract another 10 deg just North of us in the basin. We have campuses in Stoney Rapids and Black Lake up there. Good grief!
That global warming's a killer, ain't it?
This past week Swiss Railways in the Alps have been hit hard by heavy snowfalls leading to severe avalanche risks requiring the closure of all the mountain pass routes for various lengths of time. The Gotthard and Lötschberg Passes were closed, although the base tunnels were open. The Rhätische Bahn was particularly effected as the line to Davos was closed from Klosters to Davos, the line to St. Moritz was closed from Preda to Bever, the Arosa line was completely closed, the line along the Rhine to Disentis was closed from Sumvitg to Disentis, and the Engadin line was closed between Cinuos-chel-Brail to Susch. Only the Bernina line and the line from Thusis to Chur and Landquart was continuously open, with the Railway operating some service over the portions of the other lines that were still open.
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