Thank You
kenny dorham I suppose it still happens today, but.....when i watch railroad video from circa 1930, you see cars from all over the country. You might see a Pennsylvania freight train and it will have cars from Southern Pacific and Milwaukee Road (etc etc). My question is, after the freight in those cars gets to its destination, how do all those cars crisscross the country to get back to the railroad that owns them.? Thank You
Then there were 'Pool Cars' loaded from a single shipper to deliver lcl to multiple receivers. Or even, a car loaded at a railroad cross dock location for multiple receivers [ other railroad lcl receiving locations. Types of shippers/receivers, could be Montgomery-Ward, Sears, TG&Y, Western Auto,or even large Retail Department Stores. Most of these could or would generally, be boxcar shippers.
There were also a limited number of compartmentalized tank cars, for delivery of multiple types of bulk liquids; they coud be assigned to chemical deliveries. Or even wines were shipped this way, to be bottled locally, for distribution regionally.
These practices seem to have faded away over the last 20+ years, as expenses have grown, and trucking has become a real rail compeditor.
Kenny, to add to what Sam posted, in general an empty car was returned to its owner by the most direct route. If the road that picks it up empty is able to load it, so much the better. The cars do not travel free--the roads over which the cars travel pay the owning road so much per day--and if the recipient of a load keeps a car too long, the recipient also pays the owning road--perhaps yu could say that the owning road receives car rent. Railroads keep track of where their cars are, and are careful to keep track of foreign cars also.
"Foreign," in railroad terminology, does not mean from another country, but simply from another railroad company.
Johnny
DeggestyKenny, to add to what Sam posted, in general an empty car was returned to its owner by the most direct route. If the road that picks it up empty is able to load it, so much the better. The cars do not travel free--the roads over which the cars travel pay the owning road so much per day--and if the recipient of a load keeps a car too long, the recipient also pays the owning road--perhaps yu could say that the owning road receives car rent. Railroads keep track of where their cars are, and are careful to keep track of foreign cars also. "Foreign," in railroad terminology, does not mean from another country, but simply from another railroad company.
There is a entire segment of rules that get published in the printed Equipment Register that governs the movement of empty cars and who is responsible for what in the handling of those cars. It is not a small section.
A primer!
https://www.gbrx.com/press-room/perspectives-updates/rail-car-hire-the-basics/
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I See.....Thank You
I suppose that is, kind of, what i thought must happen...something along those lines anyway. :)
Great Info from everybody. It was just something i have been curious about for quite some time.
Thanks Again
https://www.railinc.com/rportal/documents/18/260773/OT-10.pdf
Prepare for some reading. This is current procedures. If you're looking for something in the past, try to find an Official Railway Equipment Register close to the date you want. They had the car service rules printed in them.
Note: When it talks of foriegn cars, it means cars on a railroad that belong to another railroad. Not cars from other countries.
Jeff
Deggesty Kenny, to add to what Sam posted, in general an empty car was returned to its owner by the most direct route. If the road that picks it up empty is able to load it, so much the better. The cars do not travel free--the roads over which the cars travel pay the owning road so much per day--and if the recipient of a load keeps a car too long, the recipient also pays the owning road--perhaps yu could say that the owning road receives car rent. Railroads keep track of where their cars are, and are careful to keep track of foreign cars also. "Foreign," in railroad terminology, does not mean from another country, but simply from another railroad company.
Kenny, the discussion here, I think, has pretty much answered your question, and I think it's handled fairly smoothly with today's communications and computers. You mentioned "circa 1930" and back then it probably kept a lot of clerks pretty busy. I think you'd enjoy reading this description of freight car service from "The American Railway", published about 1889:
https://archive.org/details/americanrailwayi0000unse/page/266
I have the book in print, and I love it. For a modern version of this book, if you don't already have it, get John H. Armstrong's "The Railroad--What It Is, What It Does."
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Paul of Covington Kenny, the discussion here, I think, has pretty much answered your question, and I think it's handled fairly smoothly with today's communications and computers. You mentioned "circa 1930" and back then it probably kept a lot of clerks pretty busy. I think you'd enjoy reading this description of freight car service from "The American Railway", published about 1889: https://archive.org/details/americanrailwayi0000unse/page/266 I have the book in print, and I love it. For a modern version of this book, if you don't already have it, get John H. Armstrong's "The Railroad--What It Is, What It Does."
When I was first promoted to be an officer on the B&O in 1970 I was sent to Baltimore for 'orientation' and a introduction to the various departments of the organization. I recall the Car Accounting office that I visited had about 60 clerks in a room processing the various hand written interchange reports from each interchange location between the B&O and the foreign carriers. None of this was computerized at that instant in time. After computerization I think the deparment consisted of about 4 clerks, with the same level of staffing or slightly less is what CSX uses today to run the car accounting/per diem function. Today and for the last 45 years or so the term 'per diem' should more accurately be characterized as 'per hourm' as the car hire rates are charged on a per hour basis.
In the days before 'per hourm' a line like the RF&P could make out like a bandit. Recieve the car after Midnight from a foreign carrier and deliver it to the next carrier on the route before Midnight, and not get hit with any 'per diem' charges for the time the car spent on the RF&P. That all ended when the car hire became a hourly charge.
Mac, thanks for the correction about demurrage. Since the using road pays so much per diem for the use of foreign cars, it of course collects the demurrage to recouip what it pays for the use of the cars that are held by the consignee who takes too long to unload the cars or the shipper who takes too long to load the cars
BaltACD Paul of Covington Kenny, the discussion here, I think, has pretty much answered your question, and I think it's handled fairly smoothly with today's communications and computers. You mentioned "circa 1930" and back then it probably kept a lot of clerks pretty busy. I think you'd enjoy reading this description of freight car service from "The American Railway", published about 1889: https://archive.org/details/americanrailwayi0000unse/page/266 I have the book in print, and I love it. For a modern version of this book, if you don't already have it, get John H. Armstrong's "The Railroad--What It Is, What It Does." When I was first promoted to be an officer on the B&O in 1970 I was sent to Baltimore for 'orientation' and a introduction to the various departments of the organization. I recall the Car Accounting office that I visited had about 60 clerks in a room processing the various hand written interchange reports from each interchange location between the B&O and the foreign carriers. None of this was computerized at that instant in time. After computerization I think the deparment consisted of about 4 clerks, with the same level of staffing or slightly less is what CSX uses today to run the car accounting/per diem function. Today and for the last 45 years or so the term 'per diem' should more accurately be characterized as 'per hourm' as the car hire rates are charged on a per hour basis. In the days before 'per hourm' a line like the RF&P could make out like a bandit. Recieve the car after Midnight from a foreign carrier and deliver it to the next carrier on the route before Midnight, and not get hit with any 'per diem' charges for the time the car spent on the RF&P. That all ended when the car hire became a hourly charge.
South Shore used to pull a similar stunt. Overhead traffic would be received from an Eastern carrier (NYC at Terre Coupee is probably the best example) and would be delivered to IHB or BRC before midnight to avoid per diem charges. South Shore's share of the rate was relatively small and apparently did not cover the expenses of the sales reps who corralled this traffic so solicitation for overhead traffic was phased out.
Paul, I don't remember when they changed the rules so that per diem was computed by the hour, but I imagine that that made the system more equitable for all involved, but by the same token lessened the urgency to keep the traffic moving.I do remember being on transfer runs to the IHB close to midnight. I was told to notify the dispatcher of the time we reached his phone, so that we wouldn't be charged another day because the IHB "couldn't" take us before midnight. A good-sized cut of cars would amount to big bucks in those days.Now, as to the variety of cars: a lot had happened in the past 50 or 60 years to make things look different then from what you see now. Back then, there were nearly 100 Class 1 railroads that were very happy to place their logos and lettering on their graffiti-free equipment. It flowed from one interchange point to another in routine commerce (there may have been pools that kept certain cars on certain routes, but that could be discerned only by the trained eye in casual observation). Nowadays, though, you'll find cars from seven major railroads, a few predecessors, and some "undec" cars from the leasing companies...not all of which are mutually exclusive. It's almost like postwar days...box cars are red (except for CSX's, which are blue, and TTX's, which are usually yellow) and other cars are black or gray.Ah, but between the 1950s and the 1980s, in the late 1970s, you had the most colorful era of all, when the shortlines began to receive fleets of leased box cars with their own markings on them. Every color on the color wheel was available somewhere...if not on the box cars, then on covered hopper cars leased from the major leasing companies. But if you wanted variety, you certainly could get it.I don't know whether this is addressing any of the o.p.'s questions, but it's what has happened...I've been watching freight cars in all of these eras, and noting the evolution, which is sadly outpacing the revolution in new car types or cars more suited to the services they're used in. Kenny, just take a close look at the cars and keep watching...the varety's still there, a good manifest train will have cars from most of the major railroads in quantities that may tell you where the train or a block thereof came from, and you'll see what a fluid system we have out there!
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
There is anoter situation where cars are in captive service. They are equipped with racks or special linings. A major producer like an automotive plant may require more cars then a railroad is comfortable carrying the debt or the passage is over two railroads and each wants the money from the cars. Ge in Louisville comes to mind where special box cars for appliances were required. The Sears distribution center in Philadelphia received twenty cars a day in the 50s. Most were NYC cars and some PRR cars even though the trip was almost 100% on the PRR.
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