Paul_D_North_Jr As I recall (without checking carefully), there are 6 grade crossings along the car's trip: 31st St. near the Allentown - Emmaus line, 12th & Vultee Sts. in Allentown, Auburn St. at CP Burn also in Allentown, a couple of private crossings approaching Bethlehem, and then Riverside Drive which is the one just west of the Hill-to-Hill Bridge in Bethlehem in the video. I believe they're all protected by at least flashing signals - the 4 named streets all have gates, too. More interesting is the profile: According to the reports, this car started at Emmaus Jct. (milepost about RV-31.5) where the East Penn RR's Perkiomen Line joins the NS Reading - Allentown - Bethlehem main. Notably, the East Penn track is about 8 ft. higher than the NS main, so that drop would give the car a pretty good rolling start. (Some of us will be wondering why the derail didn't stop it. I'll bet some serious money that the junction is now protected by a single or double switch point derail . . . . - or else it got away from an interchange switching crew? ) Anyway, once it got onto the main it had a grade of -0.31% to -0.27% to a short piece of -0.84% to CP Burn - see page 038 (45/548) here: http://www.multimodalways.org/docs/railroads/companies/NS/NS%20Track%20Charts/NS%20Harrisburg%20Division%20Track%20Chart%202000.pdf Those grades are just about right to keep a car rolling at about a constant speed, maybe speeding up a little bit. At CP Burn* - Allentown (pg. 039) it likely took the turnout at RV-35.11 to EN-93.00 at East Penn Jct. (pg. 041) towards Bethlehem (pg. 040) - the grade is almost entirely flat at 0.00%. From EN-88.59 = LE-88.59 Lehigh Line (pg.040 and then go to pg. 162) = CP JU it went past CP Bethlehem to wherever they got it stopped - the stated 11 miles would be to about LE-85.5, Freemansburg - on shallower grades of -0.21% to -0.14% to 0.00% to -0.07% to 0.00%. (*By the way, don't believe the +4.51% grade at the lower right of pg. 038 / lower left of pg. 039. That's over 225 ft. vertical per mile! - for the indicated 1.8 miles would be about 400 ft.! All that's happening there** is a flyover which for this track is about 30 ft. lower vertical separation, so I could believe -0.45% or -0.51%, etc. I'll leave it to others to comment on why that obvious blunder wasn't caught . . . ) **N 40.59844 W 75.45895 - PDN.
As I recall (without checking carefully), there are 6 grade crossings along the car's trip: 31st St. near the Allentown - Emmaus line, 12th & Vultee Sts. in Allentown, Auburn St. at CP Burn also in Allentown, a couple of private crossings approaching Bethlehem, and then Riverside Drive which is the one just west of the Hill-to-Hill Bridge in Bethlehem in the video. I believe they're all protected by at least flashing signals - the 4 named streets all have gates, too.
More interesting is the profile: According to the reports, this car started at Emmaus Jct. (milepost about RV-31.5) where the East Penn RR's Perkiomen Line joins the NS Reading - Allentown - Bethlehem main. Notably, the East Penn track is about 8 ft. higher than the NS main, so that drop would give the car a pretty good rolling start.
(Some of us will be wondering why the derail didn't stop it. I'll bet some serious money that the junction is now protected by a single or double switch point derail . . . . - or else it got away from an interchange switching crew? )
Anyway, once it got onto the main it had a grade of -0.31% to -0.27% to a short piece of -0.84% to CP Burn - see page 038 (45/548) here:
http://www.multimodalways.org/docs/railroads/companies/NS/NS%20Track%20Charts/NS%20Harrisburg%20Division%20Track%20Chart%202000.pdf
Those grades are just about right to keep a car rolling at about a constant speed, maybe speeding up a little bit.
At CP Burn* - Allentown (pg. 039) it likely took the turnout at RV-35.11 to EN-93.00 at East Penn Jct. (pg. 041) towards Bethlehem (pg. 040) - the grade is almost entirely flat at 0.00%. From EN-88.59 = LE-88.59 Lehigh Line (pg.040 and then go to pg. 162) = CP JU it went past CP Bethlehem to wherever they got it stopped - the stated 11 miles would be to about LE-85.5, Freemansburg - on shallower grades of -0.21% to -0.14% to 0.00% to -0.07% to 0.00%.
(*By the way, don't believe the +4.51% grade at the lower right of pg. 038 / lower left of pg. 039. That's over 225 ft. vertical per mile! - for the indicated 1.8 miles would be about 400 ft.! All that's happening there** is a flyover which for this track is about 30 ft. lower vertical separation, so I could believe -0.45% or -0.51%, etc. I'll leave it to others to comment on why that obvious blunder wasn't caught . . . )
**N 40.59844 W 75.45895
- PDN.
If there was a hop-toad there before, then there will be an alligator there now to ensure that gravity works. If the ground monkey failed to egage the derail, then the FRA operating guy is going to be handing out $10K code ones like candy... and the bubbas with the PTC responsibility will be pointing fingers.
On the track chart issue, was just shown a new BNSF track chart with a blunder in it. The dumbsizing/ PSR disease must be contageous. Oh for the days when the guy drawing those 1"=3000' PITA's actually worked on the territory. (and watching an operating guy interpret what the track chart is telling him is hysterical - GIS is not gonna help with that problem.)
This would be a good trick for the "Flex-Seal" guy to do on TV ..
BaltACD Paul of Covington By the way, you said "Most grades don't continue down forever", from which I infer that there exist some that do. Where are they? Those grades that end up in the drink or into a canyon, will continue down until there is no more track.
Paul of Covington By the way, you said "Most grades don't continue down forever", from which I infer that there exist some that do. Where are they?
Those grades that end up in the drink or into a canyon, will continue down until there is no more track.
Yes, but if they end in the drink or into a canyon, then they don't continue forever.
OK, I'll stop now.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Never heard it called that. Learned something new.
BaltACD Yep! That is the Lucas Electrical theory, and practice!
Yep! That is the Lucas Electrical theory, and practice!
While it's never been tested (to my knowledge, anyhow), it is supposed that if a car were to get loose on our Purgatory Hill (named after Purgatory Creek - origin unknown) it might well roll almost all the way to Utica, if it stayed on the tracks. That's about 35 miles.
There's a couple of upgrades that might slow a car substantially (or stop it, depending on a number of factors) but otherwise, it's all down hill...
Of course, if the divariable fribersitcher gets out of synch with the framis, the Johnson rod might suffer some damage....
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Three cars in the creek and room for lots more. Keep shovin'.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
DeggestyFrom what has been said about the practice, I am glad I was never around when such was done.
DeggestyI have witnessed a dutch drop onto an interchange track which went wrong because the handbrake on the car failed to stop it;
Paul of CovingtonBy the way, you said "Most grades don't continue down forever", from which I infer that there exist some that do. Where are they?
BaltACD Paul of Covington BaltACD Paul of Covington From the report: "Norfolk Southern employees were able to slow the car and board it at a slow speed, when they used a hand brake to stop it, she said." How were they able to slow it? Most grades don't continue down forever - when the grade begins to rise then gravity becomes your friend. Yes, but she said "...employees were able to slow the car..." Knowing the physical characteristics of a territory is a employee tool in knowing where gravity will work for you. After gravity does most of its function, the car is moving slow enough for empoyees to mount the car and apply hand brakes to bring it to a stop. Employees are not Superman - they are not faster than a speeding bullet, they cannot top tall buildings at a single bound - they are mere mortals just like the rest of us.
Paul of Covington BaltACD Paul of Covington From the report: "Norfolk Southern employees were able to slow the car and board it at a slow speed, when they used a hand brake to stop it, she said." How were they able to slow it? Most grades don't continue down forever - when the grade begins to rise then gravity becomes your friend. Yes, but she said "...employees were able to slow the car..."
BaltACD Paul of Covington From the report: "Norfolk Southern employees were able to slow the car and board it at a slow speed, when they used a hand brake to stop it, she said." How were they able to slow it? Most grades don't continue down forever - when the grade begins to rise then gravity becomes your friend.
Paul of Covington From the report: "Norfolk Southern employees were able to slow the car and board it at a slow speed, when they used a hand brake to stop it, she said." How were they able to slow it?
"Norfolk Southern employees were able to slow the car and board it at a slow speed, when they used a hand brake to stop it, she said."
How were they able to slow it?
Most grades don't continue down forever - when the grade begins to rise then gravity becomes your friend.
Yes, but she said "...employees were able to slow the car..."
Knowing the physical characteristics of a territory is a employee tool in knowing where gravity will work for you. After gravity does most of its function, the car is moving slow enough for empoyees to mount the car and apply hand brakes to bring it to a stop. Employees are not Superman - they are not faster than a speeding bullet, they cannot top tall buildings at a single bound - they are mere mortals just like the rest of us.
Now that I know how gravity works and that employees are not supermen, I still want to know how the employees did it.
By the way, you said "Most grades don't continue down forever", from which I infer that there exist some that do. Where are they?
Just brilliant Overmod! I haven't heard such a consise and cogent technical explanation since this gent walked the earth...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzcE0G_OMDA
I tried to find his routine from "Dive Bomber" but it doesn't seem to be out there.
Too bad, it's classic!
timberlane1Tried to add a picture of a bottle of liquid smoke for quick electronics repair.
I'm glad to say that we have managed to reverse-engineer the formula used in Lucas p/n 530433 using the recognition that P. azurescens lycopodium admixed with the material sourced from Pacaya-Samiria is as effective as the material provided in (discontinued) Sparkfun kit TOL-10622 when adsinicated with tetragammatron radication per pp. 6076-7117 of that product's pocket user's guide.
I will see if I can link a picture once the kits have been contract manufactured.
timberlane1 Tried to add a picture of a bottle of liquid smoke for quick electronics repair.
Joseph Lucas "The Prince of Darkness" 1842-1903
A few Lucas quips:
• The Lucas motto: "Get home before dark."• Lucas is the patent holder for the short circuit.• Lucas - Inventor of the first intermittent wiper.• Lucas - Inventor of the self-dimming headlamp.• The three-position Lucas switch--DIM, FLICKER and OFF. • The Original Anti-Theft Device - Lucas Electrics.• If Lucas made guns, wars would not start• Back in the '70s, Lucas decided to diversify its product line and began manufacturing vacuum cleaners. It was the only product they offered which did not suck.
Q: Why do the British drink warm beer? A: Because Lucas makes their refrigerators.
Tried to add a picture of a bottle of liquid smoke for quick electronics repair.
rrnut282 My EE prof told me, if you let the smoke out, they were no good anymore.
My EE prof told me, if you let the smoke out, they were no good anymore.
Johnny
Paul of Covington How were they able to slow it? Yes, but she said "...employees were able to slow the car..."
I don't recommend it, but maybe they got ahead of it (or called on the radio to someone who was) and placed a tie across the rails. The additional friction, both points of sliding, will slow it down. Even if the tie snaps in two, some energy will have been removed. I don't know how fast is too fast for a tack skate.
rrnut282My EE prof told me, if you let the smoke out, they were no good anymore.
dehusman blue streak 1 Now why does UP & CN need 28 axels on the Amtrak trains to activate theeir signals ? All it takes is one axle shunting to trip the signal. The question is how many do you need to shunt in all conditions for high reliability? In order to get the level of reliability, UP & CN require 28 axles. That would cut through most rust, dust and mud.
blue streak 1 Now why does UP & CN need 28 axels on the Amtrak trains to activate theeir signals ?
All it takes is one axle shunting to trip the signal. The question is how many do you need to shunt in all conditions for high reliability? In order to get the level of reliability, UP & CN require 28 axles. That would cut through most rust, dust and mud.
Naw - it only supports Lucas Electric's smoke operated theory of electricity.
blue streak 1Now why does UP & CN need 28 axels on the Amtrak trains to activate theeir signals ?
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
I noticed poling pockets on GP's (I do not know when they were built) in the seventies.
DeggestyDo poling still done? Are their poling pockets on the newer engines? From what has been said about the practice, I am glad I was never around when such was done. I have witnessed a dutch drop onto an interchange track which went wrong because the handbrake on the car failed to stop it; as it was, the car rode over the rabbit and yet stayed on the track. The brakeman ran to the MOW foreman's house (right at the scene) to get the key to unlock the rabbit so the car could be pulled back from fouling the other road's siding.
From what has been said about the practice, I am glad I was never around when such was done.
I have witnessed a dutch drop onto an interchange track which went wrong because the handbrake on the car failed to stop it; as it was, the car rode over the rabbit and yet stayed on the track. The brakeman ran to the MOW foreman's house (right at the scene) to get the key to unlock the rabbit so the car could be pulled back from fouling the other road's siding.
I think poling pockets disappeared from new built equipment starting sometime in the 30's (I could be mistaken).
Another means used to move cars in tight quarters was to chain the cars, mostly to pull them fom industries
Recall a crew being 'forced' against their better judgement to make a 'Dutch Drop' with the car headed to a customer's track that had several tank cars on spot with loading/unloading appratus attached by their Trainmaster. Hand, while tested, wil minimally effective and the dropped car impacted and knocked the other cars off spot with the resultant mess of loss of product.
Trainmaster charged the crew for failure to control the car. Trainmaster's father had him transferred to the hinterlands of the carrier's system (Trainmaster's father was the President of the carrier).
Do poling still done? Are their poling pockets on the newer engines?
BaltACDEmployees are not Superman.....they are mere mortals just like the rest of us.
A steam-era incident on the Northern Alberta comes to mind.
A crew was doubling the 2% hill out of the Peace River valley. A switching miscommunication at the top caused a string of cars to violently back into their caboose, sending it back down the hill on its own. Apparently it took only 7 minutes to race down the 7 mile hill, and then started up the other side. Obeying gravity, it stalled and started rolling back.
The Peace River station agent had seen it race by, and was ready when it came back.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.