Trains.com

Finally restoring a Texas - Mexico crossing

1694 views
11 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Finally restoring a Texas - Mexico crossing
Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, October 23, 2018 7:20 PM

Bridge at Presidio that burned is finally going to be rebuilt. 

https://elpasoheraldpost.com/txdot-breaks-ground-on-reconstruction-of-presidio-ojinaga-rail-bridge/ 

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, October 24, 2018 7:56 AM

will this reduce KCS's traffic?

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 2,593 posts
Posted by PNWRMNM on Wednesday, October 24, 2018 8:10 AM

It is not much of a bridge, so will be a relatively cheap project. My questiion is 'Why bother', meaning for what traffic is Texas doing this?

Is the notion to short cut traffic to and from the west on the UP? If so, why would the UP play along? They have a crossing at Eagle Pass, about 250 miles to the east.

This bridge was originally part of the Kansas City, Mexico and Orient which never made the port on the west coast of Mexico that it was aiming for. I think the route was ultimately completed in Mexico much later.

The bridge will be cheap compared to rehabing the line on the US side which as I recall has been out of service south of San Angelo for years so almost all ties will have to be replaced and the 90# stick rail will not last long under traffic.

Collor me perplexed.

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Texas
  • 1,552 posts
Posted by PJS1 on Wednesday, October 24, 2018 11:33 AM

PNWRMNM
.....which as I recall has been out of service south of San Angelo.....

When I asked about a year ago, while in San Angelo, I was told the South Orient line is open from San Angelo to Alpine Junction.  Apparently, they have been hauling a lot of fracking sand on it.  I saw maybe 50 to 75 cars parked in the very small yard at Fort Stockton. 

Over the last five years, while driving along U.S. 67 from San Angelo to Fort Stockton and on to Alpine, which happens to be my favorite spot in Texas for cycling, I noticed that a lot of work was being done to upgrade the railroad.  It parallels U.S. 67.

Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, October 24, 2018 8:23 PM

Was in Chihuahua about 2011.  Saw a derlict line that now realize was the line from Presidio that connected to the other lines in Chihuahua including the gorge line.  IMHO the Presidio line will need much track work as most track was in the dirt and lighter weight rail.   As well the line had some street running on dirt streets with no crossing signals going towards the Wal-Mart.

Of course those conditions may have changed for the better ( or worse ) in the intervening years.  If the line(s) in the US and Mexico can handle the trafffic it might become a higher capacity route ?  

  • Member since
    June 2009
  • From: Dallas, TX
  • 6,952 posts
Posted by CMStPnP on Wednesday, October 24, 2018 8:53 PM

daveklepper

will this reduce KCS's traffic?

 
Oh hell no,...... this bridge is way out in the middle of nowhere in the Desert between El Paso and San Antonio somewhere  almost half way between the two cities but closer to El Paso.    This line serves Western Mexico.    KCS serves South Central Mexico with some branches to the West.   It shortcuts the UP and T&P connection at El Paso.     That is it shortcuts it if they can get the entire rail line up to decent speed.    Below is a link to the dream of the Fort Worth and Western Railway.......
 
 
Those Western Mexico Cities are tiny that this rail line shortcuts too, not a lot of port traffic in or out of them, IMHO.
  • Member since
    June 2009
  • From: Dallas, TX
  • 6,952 posts
Posted by CMStPnP on Wednesday, October 24, 2018 8:59 PM

PNWRMNM

It is not much of a bridge, so will be a relatively cheap project. My questiion is 'Why bother', meaning for what traffic is Texas doing this?

Is the notion to short cut traffic to and from the west on the UP? If so, why would the UP play along? They have a crossing at Eagle Pass, about 250 miles to the east.

This bridge was originally part of the Kansas City, Mexico and Orient which never made the port on the west coast of Mexico that it was aiming for. I think the route was ultimately completed in Mexico much later.

The bridge will be cheap compared to rehabing the line on the US side which as I recall has been out of service south of San Angelo for years so almost all ties will have to be replaced and the 90# stick rail will not last long under traffic.

Collor me perplexed.

The current operator has been able to build traffic on the line due to fracking.   Since it is a Mexican operator with probable ties to Mexican Rail companies my guess is that opening the border crossing will improve bridge traffic.   TxDOT intends to improve the whole line.     The line needs a lot of work though as it is mostly slow orders around the border if the rail is in place at all.   I believe they interchange with Fort Worth and Western (FWWR) in the North if I am not mistaken.

Here is the dream that we will probably never see happen in our life times...

http://fwwr.net/maps.html

 

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Texas
  • 1,552 posts
Posted by PJS1 on Wednesday, October 24, 2018 9:29 PM

blue streak 1

Was in Chihuahua about 2011.  IMHO the Presidio line will need much track work as most track was in the dirt and lighter weight rail.   

Of course those conditions may have changed for the better ( or worse ) in the intervening years.    

The South Orient from Presidio to the UP junction, which is approximately 13 miles west of Alpine, is a wreck.  It will have to be rebuilt to handle any traffic.  

I go to Alpine three or four times a year to cycle.  One of my favorite rides is from Alpine to Marfa along U.S. 90.  It parallels the UP’s Sunset line and crosses the South Orient line to Presidio, so I get a pretty good view of the condition of the railroad near the UP junction.  I was there in September. 

Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 2,593 posts
Posted by PNWRMNM on Wednesday, October 24, 2018 9:47 PM

Frac sand originating south (more west actually) of San Angelo is all well and good. Track out that far is perhaps OK, meaning class II, as a guess only.

The issue is overhead traffic. The Mexican connection is Ferrosur which has connections with both BNSF and UP at El Paso and UP at Eagle Pass. This bridge will do nothing for UP which brings us back to BNSF.

First, the only Mexican points for which this is a short route is the West Coast north of Guadlahara. Second, US points would be north and east of Dallas/Fort Worth on BN or NS/KCS to and from the deep south. Third, BNSF would probably choose to favor El Paso as opposed to short hauling itself at Fort Worth. Fourth, for most traffic east of the Mississippi River, the short line mileage will be via Larado or Brownsville. Even the proponent's map shows that quite clearly.

Both carriers and customers have got along without this line for decades, and I do not see much traffic for which it is the natural service route. Texas may build itself a new bridge but at least the US side needs major rehab.

I do not see the traffic to support the capital cost of the entire project.

The Mexican side track may well be the same quality as the last 85 miles on the US. That is well over 100 miles. If so, another nail in the coffin.

 

  • Member since
    February 2016
  • From: Texas
  • 1,552 posts
Posted by PJS1 on Wednesday, October 24, 2018 10:35 PM

PNWRMNM
 I do not see the traffic to support the capital cost of the entire project. 

Ah, you have overlooked a key point.  Government agencies, irrespective of their form, seldom worry about recapturing the capital cost of anything. 

Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 2,593 posts
Posted by PNWRMNM on Thursday, October 25, 2018 7:54 AM

PJS1

 

 
PNWRMNM
 I do not see the traffic to support the capital cost of the entire project. 

 

Ah, you have overlooked a key point.  Government agencies, irrespective of their form, seldom worry about recapturing the capital cost of anything. 

 

Of course that is true. Texas may end up with a new trestle in the middle of 200 miles of out of service track. I guess Texas bureaucrats are as smart as Washington State bureaucrats who gave us the Dupont ATK wreck.

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: South Central,Ks
  • 7,170 posts
Posted by samfp1943 on Thursday, October 25, 2018 8:52 PM

PNWRMNM

It is not much of a bridge, so will be a relatively cheap project. My questiion is 'Why bother', meaning for what traffic is Texas doing this?

Is the notion to short cut traffic to and from the west on the UP? If so, why would the UP play along? They have a crossing at Eagle Pass, about 250 miles to the east.

This bridge was originally part of the Kansas City, Mexico and Orient which never made the port on the west coast of Mexico that it was aiming for. I think the route was ultimately completed in Mexico much later.

The bridge will be cheap compared to rehabing the line on the US side which as I recall has been out of service south of San Angelo for years so almost all ties will have to be replaced and the 90# stick rail will not last long under traffic.

Collor me perplexed.

I found the following You Tube Video from 2010(?) that illustrates the Hisyory and the start of the reconstruction of the Line[KCM&O RR] from near Coleman,Tx to the Border of Texas/Mexico.     There are maps, and narration of the video of the reconstruction process at that time.

See video linked @   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7WNRcwXaxM

 

 

 


 

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy