BaltACDMonday moring a change was made to the Operating Plan - two through merchandise schedules in each directionwere removed from the Fitzgerald/Lineville Sub routing and placed back on the Bow Line. I guess 'something' was learned from the inspection trip.
I guess 'something' was learned from the inspection trip.
Editor Emeritus, This Week at Amtrak
D.Carleton SALfan Thanks for the info; I didn't know any of the history of those lines. If the line from Climax to Chattahoochee were still in place, CSX could abandon the old SAL from Chattahoochee to Baldwin without much impact. AFAIK there aren't any significant traffic sources on the whole stretch. The "Bow Line" (Bainbridge to Waycross) could use the traffic, from what I've seen. Don't know if the Bow Line is a maintenance headache; it does cross some pretty marshy territory from west of Homerville to Waycross. If you know something I don't, please share the information, I'd like to know more. I’m not aware of any specific problems with the Bow Line except being frozen in amber circa 1960 with stick rail. It’s just busy enough to hang onto. A good resource for railroad history in this neck of the woods is “The Plant System Of Railroads, Steamships And Hotels: The South's First Great Industrial Enterprise.“
SALfan Thanks for the info; I didn't know any of the history of those lines. If the line from Climax to Chattahoochee were still in place, CSX could abandon the old SAL from Chattahoochee to Baldwin without much impact. AFAIK there aren't any significant traffic sources on the whole stretch. The "Bow Line" (Bainbridge to Waycross) could use the traffic, from what I've seen. Don't know if the Bow Line is a maintenance headache; it does cross some pretty marshy territory from west of Homerville to Waycross. If you know something I don't, please share the information, I'd like to know more.
I’m not aware of any specific problems with the Bow Line except being frozen in amber circa 1960 with stick rail. It’s just busy enough to hang onto. A good resource for railroad history in this neck of the woods is “The Plant System Of Railroads, Steamships And Hotels: The South's First Great Industrial Enterprise.“
When I was ACD on the Atlanta Division, a operating plan was implemented that took all through trains off the Bow Line between Birmingham and Waycross and had them all operate on the Lineville and Fitzgerald Subs.
A Senior Operating Officers inspection train was called out of Birmingham at 6 AM on a Friday morning. The train arrived Manchester at Noon (On Time) and made it's turn on the the Fitzgerald Sub with a crew that went on duty at Noon. Inspection train had to follow 5 full sized (9000 feet at the time) Southbound freights destined Waycross and Jacksonville. Inspection train COULD NOT pass the Southbound freights account ALL the passing sidings on the Fitzgerald Sub were occupied by Northbound trains.
The reality of operating 9000 foot trains says one or more of them will have issues. A UDE here, a Defect Detector activation there, a track occupancy light staying on requiring trains to operate on Permission by the Stop Signal at Restricted Speed until they recieve the next signal more favorable than Restricted Proceed, Stop & Flag a road crossing or two because of malfunctioning crossing protection - all the run of the mill stuff. The Manchester crew was intended to take the train to Waycross, however account HOS it was changed at Fitzgerald. Some of the preceeding 5 freights had their own HOS issues and were handled as necessary with the recrews standing by waiting on the trains.
As the trains arrived Waycross at about 5 AM on Saturday morning, all the operating officials left the train like rats departing a sinking ship - at least that is what the Terminal Trainmaster at Waycross reported - taking highway transportation back to Jacksonville.
Monday moring a change was made to the Operating Plan - two through merchandise schedules in each directionwere removed from the Fitzgerald/Lineville Sub routing and placed back on the Bow Line.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
SALfanThanks for the info; I didn't know any of the history of those lines. If the line from Climax to Chattahoochee were still in place, CSX could abandon the old SAL from Chattahoochee to Baldwin without much impact. AFAIK there aren't any significant traffic sources on the whole stretch. The "Bow Line" (Bainbridge to Waycross) could use the traffic, from what I've seen. Don't know if the Bow Line is a maintenance headache; it does cross some pretty marshy territory from west of Homerville to Waycross. If you know something I don't, please share the information, I'd like to know more.
D.Carleton SALfan I've often amused myself by trying to figure out the best way to combine the Bainbridge-to-Waycross and Tallahassee-to-Jacksonville lines. They aren't that far apart, at least between Thomasville and Tallahassee. I assume a lot of the traffic on the Florida panhandle line is destined for Florida, but seems like it would be handy to run it all thru Waycross. I assume Waycross is used to build trains for various destinations in FL (not that I have any real knowledge, that's just how I'd do it). The line from Dupont south was built at the very end of the Civil War and was the first to cross the FL-GA line. The line from Climax to Chattahoochee was built in 1883, seven years before the line from Bainbridge to Montgomery. This provided a friendly connection to the L&N and became ACL's route from Richmond to New Orleans. The nexus of the ACL/SCL/FLS/SBD/CSX in the southeast of the Southeast was, is and will always be Waycross. As that is the case was abandoning the line from Chattahoochee to Climax really a good idea?
SALfan I've often amused myself by trying to figure out the best way to combine the Bainbridge-to-Waycross and Tallahassee-to-Jacksonville lines. They aren't that far apart, at least between Thomasville and Tallahassee. I assume a lot of the traffic on the Florida panhandle line is destined for Florida, but seems like it would be handy to run it all thru Waycross. I assume Waycross is used to build trains for various destinations in FL (not that I have any real knowledge, that's just how I'd do it).
The line from Dupont south was built at the very end of the Civil War and was the first to cross the FL-GA line. The line from Climax to Chattahoochee was built in 1883, seven years before the line from Bainbridge to Montgomery. This provided a friendly connection to the L&N and became ACL's route from Richmond to New Orleans. The nexus of the ACL/SCL/FLS/SBD/CSX in the southeast of the Southeast was, is and will always be Waycross. As that is the case was abandoning the line from Chattahoochee to Climax really a good idea?
Thanks for the info; I didn't know any of the history of those lines. If the line from Climax to Chattahoochee were still in place, CSX could abandon the old SAL from Chattahoochee to Baldwin without much impact. AFAIK there aren't any significant traffic sources on the whole stretch. The "Bow Line" (Bainbridge to Waycross) could use the traffic, from what I've seen. Don't know if the Bow Line is a maintenance headache; it does cross some pretty marshy territory from west of Homerville to Waycross. If you know something I don't, please share the information, I'd like to know more.
SALfanI've often amused myself by trying to figure out the best way to combine the Bainbridge-to-Waycross and Tallahassee-to-Jacksonville lines. They aren't that far apart, at least between Thomasville and Tallahassee. I assume a lot of the traffic on the Florida panhandle line is destined for Florida, but seems like it would be handy to run it all thru Waycross. I assume Waycross is used to build trains for various destinations in FL (not that I have any real knowledge, that's just how I'd do it).
BaltACD n012944 Jim611 I wonder if NS complains about the Deshler and Fostoria crossings being tied up for long periods. Sure they do. They are then reminded that the average delay for a CSX train to get across the NS controlled Vickers diamond in Toledo is a hour and a half. That shuts up their complaints really quick. If the NS complains about Deshler - they are looking for a freebie. They don't operate there. There are numerous locations where each carrier can screw the other.
n012944 Jim611 I wonder if NS complains about the Deshler and Fostoria crossings being tied up for long periods. Sure they do. They are then reminded that the average delay for a CSX train to get across the NS controlled Vickers diamond in Toledo is a hour and a half. That shuts up their complaints really quick.
Jim611 I wonder if NS complains about the Deshler and Fostoria crossings being tied up for long periods.
I wonder if NS complains about the Deshler and Fostoria crossings being tied up for long periods.
Sure they do. They are then reminded that the average delay for a CSX train to get across the NS controlled Vickers diamond in Toledo is a hour and a half. That shuts up their complaints really quick.
If the NS complains about Deshler - they are looking for a freebie. They don't operate there. There are numerous locations where each carrier can screw the other.
I was speaking of Fostoria. I am well aware of the ownership of railroad crossing at grade at Deshler.
An "expensive model collector"
Deshler is all CSX - although running one of those long trains around one of the transfers at 10 MPH does keep things tied up at the local road crossings.
I believe CSX and NS cross at Leipsic (about six or so miles south of Deshler), however, so I'm sure there are issues there. That's a single track line, and oftimes trains are held out account no room at their destination. If they're too long for a siding, the main gets blocked...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Jim611I watch the Fostoria cam and there are some long CSX trains that take 15 to 20 minutes to go through the NW wye. If those trains come from Cinncinati, they cross the NS Fostoria District 3 times. I wonder if NS complains about the Deshler and Fostoria crossings being tied up for long periods. The other night, i was listening to the scanner and an eastbound NS intermodal train waited 30 minutes while one of these monsters CSX trains crawled through the Fostoria NW wye followd by a second CSX train that stayed on the ex B&O.
Cincinnati trains will most likely use the Deshler route in both directions going through Lima and Dayton.
The former C&O South of Fostoria runs to Russell, KY. For a train to go to Cincinnati from Fostoria it would have to go to Russell and then back track to Cincinnati and run nearly an additional 200 miles in the process.
tree68 I watch the Deshler cam a lot. I don't know one train from another, symbol-wise, and don't usually listen to the scanner. But there are those there who do. There is a chat section next to the live video and I often see that such-and-such a train was reinstated, which indicates to me that maybe CSX discovered they needed to run that train after all. A lot of trains make a turn at Deshler, although points south are the primary source and destination. The NW transfer isn't used very often. Trains using the transfers are usually at 10 MPH, which makes for some long transits. And noisy. Loaded coil cars do some fearful screaming as they make the curves.
I watch the Deshler cam a lot. I don't know one train from another, symbol-wise, and don't usually listen to the scanner. But there are those there who do.
There is a chat section next to the live video and I often see that such-and-such a train was reinstated, which indicates to me that maybe CSX discovered they needed to run that train after all.
A lot of trains make a turn at Deshler, although points south are the primary source and destination. The NW transfer isn't used very often. Trains using the transfers are usually at 10 MPH, which makes for some long transits.
And noisy. Loaded coil cars do some fearful screaming as they make the curves.
I watch the Fostoria cam and there are some long CSX trains that take 15 to 20 minutes to go through the NW wye. If those trains come from Cinncinati, they cross the NS Fostoria District 3 times. I wonder if NS complains about the Deshler and Fostoria crossings being tied up for long periods. The other night, i was listening to the scanner and an eastbound NS intermodal train waited 30 minutes while one of these monsters CSX trains crawled through the Fostoria NW wye followd by a second CSX train that stayed on the ex B&O.
zardoz BaltACD And when the music stops, we all sit down.... Five years or so from now there will be a great proclamation announcing the centralization of operations: CSX has implemented a new operating management structure that “centralizes operational and support functions,” are “designed to enhance safety, improve service, accelerate decision-making and drive operating efficiency,” and are “a continuation of the company’s scheduled railroading transformation.”
BaltACD
And when the music stops, we all sit down....
Five years or so from now there will be a great proclamation announcing the centralization of operations:
CSX has implemented a new operating management structure that “centralizes operational and support functions,” are “designed to enhance safety, improve service, accelerate decision-making and drive operating efficiency,” and are “a continuation of the company’s scheduled railroading transformation.”
tree68I was going to suggest that several years from now CSX will announce that they are moving dispatch offices out of JAX so the dispatchers can be closer to the territories they dispatch...
Dang! I heard the same thing 11 years ago. They did it 10 years ago and undid it a year ago. Each move saved millions if you listen to them. Give me a F'n break.
Don't know if EHH had all the CADS equipment pulled out of the Dispatching offices when the Dispatchers were returned to Jax or not.
I was going to suggest that several years from now CSX will announce that they are moving dispatch offices out of JAX so the dispatchers can be closer to the territories they dispatch...
BaltACDearranging the CSX deck chairs
Rearranging the CSX deck chairs
https://www.railwayage.com/freight/class-i/csx-decentralizes-operations/
I'd be rich if all the centralize/decentralize organizational changes had paid off. This one changes orientation from North/South to East/West. Will the next one bet Northeast/Southwest?
CSX has no core. And never did.
25 years aro, or so, someone that I know that worked for CSX gave me a 4 panel drawing.
The first panel showed the CSX route map as it looksed at the time of the Chessie/Seaboard merger.
The second panel showed CSX as it looked in the mid-90s, shorn of shortline divestures.
The third panel showed a purported CSX in 2000 with only lines from Chicago to Baltimore, Baltimore to Jacksonville and Jacksonville to Chicago. (Remember, this is pre Conrail split-up.)
The final panel showed only a figure 8.
I'll see if I can find it and post.
D.Carleton SALfan CSX has been running some monsters thru Tallahassee. Counting intermodal wells as cars, I've seen car counts over 200 in the past month or so. Most of the eastbound trains are "clean out the yard" types with general freight, autoracks, Tropicana juice reefers and intermodal boxes; westbounds have everything but autoracks (assume they go from Jacksonville to Waycross to be sent wherever needed). Saw a very unusual train two weeks ago or so - 60 to 65 cars general freight and 101 autoracks. It was going east, so it was climbing a hill and moving pretty slowly at the start, and with all that length it took a while to pass by. Too bad they didn't save that 30 miles between Climax and Chattahoochee. That dog-leg through Baldwin adds about 100 miles between Waycross and NO. Over time that has to add up on fuel and T&E costs. They're not going to put those 30 miles back but it does serve as an object lesson of shortsightedness.
SALfan CSX has been running some monsters thru Tallahassee. Counting intermodal wells as cars, I've seen car counts over 200 in the past month or so. Most of the eastbound trains are "clean out the yard" types with general freight, autoracks, Tropicana juice reefers and intermodal boxes; westbounds have everything but autoracks (assume they go from Jacksonville to Waycross to be sent wherever needed). Saw a very unusual train two weeks ago or so - 60 to 65 cars general freight and 101 autoracks. It was going east, so it was climbing a hill and moving pretty slowly at the start, and with all that length it took a while to pass by.
Too bad they didn't save that 30 miles between Climax and Chattahoochee. That dog-leg through Baldwin adds about 100 miles between Waycross and NO. Over time that has to add up on fuel and T&E costs. They're not going to put those 30 miles back but it does serve as an object lesson of shortsightedness.
I've often amused myself by trying to figure out the best way to combine the Bainbridge-to-Waycross and Tallahassee-to-Jacksonville lines. They aren't that far apart, at least between Thomasville and Tallahassee. I assume a lot of the traffic on the Florida panhandle line is destined for Florida, but seems like it would be handy to run it all thru Waycross. I assume Waycross is used to build trains for various destinations in FL (not that I have any real knowledge, that's just how I'd do it).
CSX in our neck of the woods A&WP sub has increased its HP / ton on most trains. During Hunter locos were just 2 - 4400 HP units on all CSX trains. The BNSF IM haulage trains did not change with them being 3 or 4 or 5 units with 3 on line and 1 appearing to be a back up in case of a failure . The Lineville sub needs those 3 units.
Now all CSX IM trains have been increased to 3 units no matter how short. Speeds are noticably faster. General merchandise trains 80% of time also have 3 on line units. Only a few empty unit trains and occasional empty general freight is just 2 units. Of course just to make it not 100% an empty ballast train came by few days ago with just one unit.
SALfanCSX has been running some monsters thru Tallahassee. Counting intermodal wells as cars, I've seen car counts over 200 in the past month or so. Most of the eastbound trains are "clean out the yard" types with general freight, autoracks, Tropicana juice reefers and intermodal boxes; westbounds have everything but autoracks (assume they go from Jacksonville to Waycross to be sent wherever needed). Saw a very unusual train two weeks ago or so - 60 to 65 cars general freight and 101 autoracks. It was going east, so it was climbing a hill and moving pretty slowly at the start, and with all that length it took a while to pass by.
Too bad CN is mostly single-track with few opportunities for true directioal running. Having crews qualified on both routes limits the need for dead-heads.
BaltACD Have no problem with running over length trains on single track - IN ONE DIRECTION. In both directions it is grid lock. And if you run out of crews you are shut down.
Have no problem with running over length trains on single track - IN ONE DIRECTION. In both directions it is grid lock. And if you run out of crews you are shut down.
CN tried running the over-siding trains in only one direction too, but of course it created deadheads. And remember, in Hunter's world deadheads are evil.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
MP173 Balt:Great cartoon...now lets get serious if you dont mind. I pass my work day by watching the Chesterton, Indiana web cam (and scanner) thus having a pulse on the NS - Chicago line operations. Pretty smooth operations, but word is that NS is suffering elsewhere, particularly down south. The other day out of boredom i switched to Fostoria and have been hooked since. Several comments based on trackside observations (actually web cam obs): 1. CSX seems to be operating pretty well thru Fostoria. The trains seem to be reliable from day to day. 2. Wow, what a busy junction for the CSX. Lots of trains make 90 degree turns (at 10mph). It seems like all four diverging routes are used heavily. 3. CSX is running some long trains...last week there was a 18,000 ft Q299 - Connellsville - Toledo. Easy to see how the operating ratio is dropping with trains like that. It did take quite a while to turn the corner at 10mph. 4. CSX seems to be mixing the auto rack trains with general freight. Note sure if this is a EHH thing or not, but many of the trains are now "mixed". 5. Some intermodal trains are huge...14,000 ft Q016s with over 300 boxes are regular. No second sections on CSX, just build the trains larger. 6. Comment overheard from a dispatcher (on the radio)..."if I walk away from this desk for one day, when I return I dont recognize new trains or what trains are to do." Wow, it seems as if the operations plan is evolving. 7. Q010 seems to be winning the UPS war with NS 20E for the morning Chicago - New Jersey competion. Two months ago 20E would regularly have 30-50 UPS units daily. Lately it is in single digits and often these are UPS "Freight" which is the old Overnite LTL operation. Q010 regularly has 40-50 UPS vans and containers. However, 20E seems to be winning the overall volume as they have picked up lots of trailer business, primarily refer vans. Q010 is handling less than 100 units daily...not much after the UPS. So, is UPS sensing that NS is slipping and thus shifting loads to CSX? If so, why is 20E increasing other lines of business? That is it for now. Yes, the past year has been painful, but it sure seems that CSX is gaining some traction, at least all along the old B&O. Ed
Balt:Great cartoon...now lets get serious if you dont mind.
I pass my work day by watching the Chesterton, Indiana web cam (and scanner) thus having a pulse on the NS - Chicago line operations. Pretty smooth operations, but word is that NS is suffering elsewhere, particularly down south. The other day out of boredom i switched to Fostoria and have been hooked since.
Several comments based on trackside observations (actually web cam obs):
1. CSX seems to be operating pretty well thru Fostoria. The trains seem to be reliable from day to day.
2. Wow, what a busy junction for the CSX. Lots of trains make 90 degree turns (at 10mph). It seems like all four diverging routes are used heavily.
3. CSX is running some long trains...last week there was a 18,000 ft Q299 - Connellsville - Toledo. Easy to see how the operating ratio is dropping with trains like that. It did take quite a while to turn the corner at 10mph.
4. CSX seems to be mixing the auto rack trains with general freight. Note sure if this is a EHH thing or not, but many of the trains are now "mixed".
5. Some intermodal trains are huge...14,000 ft Q016s with over 300 boxes are regular. No second sections on CSX, just build the trains larger.
6. Comment overheard from a dispatcher (on the radio)..."if I walk away from this desk for one day, when I return I dont recognize new trains or what trains are to do." Wow, it seems as if the operations plan is evolving.
7. Q010 seems to be winning the UPS war with NS 20E for the morning Chicago - New Jersey competion. Two months ago 20E would regularly have 30-50 UPS units daily. Lately it is in single digits and often these are UPS "Freight" which is the old Overnite LTL operation. Q010 regularly has 40-50 UPS vans and containers. However, 20E seems to be winning the overall volume as they have picked up lots of trailer business, primarily refer vans. Q010 is handling less than 100 units daily...not much after the UPS. So, is UPS sensing that NS is slipping and thus shifting loads to CSX? If so, why is 20E increasing other lines of business?
That is it for now. Yes, the past year has been painful, but it sure seems that CSX is gaining some traction, at least all along the old B&O.
Ed
CSX has been running some monsters thru Tallahassee. Counting intermodal wells as cars, I've seen car counts over 200 in the past month or so. Most of the eastbound trains are "clean out the yard" types with general freight, autoracks, Tropicana juice reefers and intermodal boxes; westbounds have everything but autoracks (assume they go from Jacksonville to Waycross to be sent wherever needed). Saw a very unusual train two weeks ago or so - 60 to 65 cars general freight and 101 autoracks. It was going east, so it was climbing a hill and moving pretty slowly at the start, and with all that length it took a while to pass by.
When Hunter came to CN nearly all sidings were 6400' or less. He decided to immediately start running long 10,000+ trains.
Multiple daily saw-bys were a normal occurrence across northern Ontario for years. Turned what should have been 5-6 hour runs into 12 hour slogs.
You can run a railrioad with trains longer than the sidings, with saw-by meets. Explained about a year ago on another thread. But figure about three hours for every meet, and impossible without at least two people on each train. And quie a bit of hiking is involved if rules are followed with backup moves protected properly. And radio communication is essential also.
Evven worse if it is a stub-end siding, but still possible. Five hours.
Having three people on each train eliminates most of the hiking and reduces the time to about a quarter or a third.
SD70DudeRunning long trains that don't fit in yards or sidings is on page one of the EHH playbook. Happened at both CN and CP and continues today, albeit toned down a bit.
I have had the opportunity to read private interviews of a number of senior rail officials - none of the EHH.
When they talk about oprations they talk as if they have absolutely no comprehension of the railroad and facilities they are talking about. On the one hand the feature employees are a dime a dozen and have no ability to think, and on the other hand the put together fanciful unworkable 'plans' with the caveat - the employees will figure it out and make it work. They create problems they have no idea how to solve and then dump it on their dime a dozen work force.
And if this new "core system" comes to be then CSX's remaining traffic could comfortably be handled by the likes of these, that first ran the line:
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