When Did They Stop Using All-Door Box CARS

[caldreamer]

When did the railroads stop using the Thrall All-Door Box Cars?

[ws Corwinda]

As far as I know there are still a few in service. I have seen them in Central Oregon and Pacific trains within the last year.

[CShaveRR]

All I can find left are about 31 cars in NOKL series 504701-504784, owned by the Wells Fargo Rail Corporation.  That number was accurate as of two years ago; a more current Equipment Register would show how many of those are left.  And those no longer have the bright paint schemes of the lumber companies that had leased them.

When did they stop using them?  Basically, when something better came along.

Thrall built a fleet of these cars in the late 1960s for U.S. Plywood, but they didn't come into more widespread use for a couple of years.  The big fleets of these cars (at that, we're talking about hundreds of cars, not thousands) were built mostly between 1972 and 1976.  

Keep in mind that these weren't box cars per se, but basically bulkhead flat cars with roofs.  And therein lay the problem--these roofs had to not only support themselves without the benefit of side structures, but had to support the weight of eight suspended plug doors.  The truss structures cut into the inside height of the car, reducing it by at least a foot from that of an ordinary box car.  Volume was cut by about 15 percent in the process.  Additionally, as flat cars, they had the same heavy center sills used by flat and gondola cars, further raising the weight and lowering the capacity.

In about 1977, Thrall started building Center-Beam flat cars, with said center beam providing not only a place to anchor the lading (and thereby eliminating a lot of the strapping required) but serving as the center sill of the car, lowering the weight and consequently increasing capacity (and unfortunately raising the center of gravity, but that's another story).  Immediately the cars were long enough to carry more wood--try to build an all-door car with five or six doors and you might as well have a gondola, given the weight!  Protection from weather was afforded by the plastic wrap that was used most of the time anyway.  With an increase in the gross rail load and the modification of the center-beam design to further reduce the weight, the cars were lengthened again, and now could carry about twice as much as an all-door "box" car.

The old LU (all-door) cars are still around, in various guises.  The old U.S. Plywood fleet finished out its life as standard box cars with a pair of centered doors, lettered for the McCloud River Railroad.  They've been retired due to age now.  Others were cut down to flat cars, and can often be found in welded-rail trains with strange reporting marks (ADBF, VSR, CWRX).  

[Deggesty]

Carl, your mentioning the Equipment Register reminded me of the various publications printed by the  National Railwaty Publication Company. I wonder if it is still in business. Years back. I bought several issues of the Guide annually, the Passenger Equipment listing, and single copies of one or two other of their publications, including the freight car listing and the one that gave dimensional restrictions on railway lines.

[azrail]

CShaveRR

All I can find left are about 31 cars in NOKL series 504701-504784, owned by the Wells Fargo Rail Corporation.  That number was accurate as of two years ago; a more current Equipment Register would show how many of those are left.  And those no longer have the bright paint schemes of the lumber companies that had leased them.

When did they stop using them?  Basically, when something better came along.

Thrall built a fleet of these cars in the late 1960s for U.S. Plywood, but they didn't come into more widespread use for a couple of years.  The big fleets of these cars (at that, we're talking about hundreds of cars, not thousands) were built mostly between 1972 and 1976.  

Keep in mind that these weren't box cars per se, but basically bulkhead flat cars with roofs.  And therein lay the problem--these roofs had to not only support themselves without the benefit of side structures, but had to support the weight of eight suspended plug doors.  The truss structures cut into the inside height of the car, reducing it by at least a foot from that of an ordinary box car.  Volume was cut by about 15 percent in the process.  Additionally, as flat cars, they had the same heavy center sills used by flat and gondola cars, further raising the weight and lowering the capacity.

In about 1977, Thrall started building Center-Beam flat cars, with said center beam providing not only a place to anchor the lading (and thereby eliminating a lot of the strapping required) but serving as the center sill of the car, lowering the weight and consequently increasing capacity (and unfortunately raising the center of gravity, but that's another story).  Immediately the cars were long enough to carry more wood--try to build an all-door car with five or six doors and you might as well have a gondola, given the weight!  Protection from weather was afforded by the plastic wrap that was used most of the time anyway.  With an increase in the gross rail load and the modification of the center-beam design to further reduce the weight, the cars were lengthened again, and now could carry about twice as much as an all-door "box" car.

The old LU (all-door) cars are still around, in various guises.  The old U.S. Plywood fleet finished out its life as standard box cars with a pair of centered doors, lettered for the McCloud River Railroad.  They've been retired due to age now.  Others were cut down to flat cars, and can often be found in welded-rail trains with strange reporting marks (ADBF, VSR, CWRX).  

 

Also most lumber is shipped today in plastic wrap to protect it from the elements, which means you don't need an enclosed car to transport it.

[CShaveRR]

Johnny, the National Railway Publication Company (the Official Guide) and the Railway Equipment and Publication Company (the Official Railway Equipment Register, the Official Register of Passenger Train Equipment, the Official Intermodal Equipment Register, Railway Line Clearances, the Pocket List of Railroad Officials, and who knows what else) are long gone.  Both of them had the same address:  424 W. 33rd St., New York, New York 10001.  I'm doing that from memory, believe it or not.  And on our first journey to New York as a couple in 1974, we made a pilgrimage to that office (high up in the building), where I bought an Official Guide.

Until about 1974, when they computerized things, all of their publications were typeset with movable type (no Linotype or any such--it was letter by letter).  Mistakes made could last for years!  (As a person with printing experience, I recognized this anachronism.)

The two-year-old issue I was given (a year's subscrition cost $395 plus tax, for four issues) was published by IHS Maritime and Trade (Newark, New Jersey), and copyrighted by JOC Group, Inc.; "Customer Service" is handled by a company apparently named Hall Data, based in Skokie, Illinois.  No wonder things cost so much (my first ORER, in 1967, cost $7.00), with all of those business to support!

I couldn't tell you the status of the Official Guide, as I was very disappointed in what it had become.  I used to like the lists of stations on the branch lines even if they didn't have passenger service any more, and the maps were useful.

[tree68]

CShaveRR

Until about 1974, when they computerized things, all of their publications were typeset with movable type (no Linotype or any such--it was letter by letter).  Mistakes made could last for years!  (As a person with printing experience, I recognized this anachronism.)

That's a lot of lead to have standing (as one who still slings type - albeit for much smaller jobs).  A lot of that is small type, too.

My 1957 copy of the Official Guide has nearly 1500 pages...

[Deggesty]

Carl, I, too, made a pilgrimage to the publishing house--in September of 1984. I had ordered a copy of the August-September issue before taking a trip, and the issue did not come, so I visited the office--and was given a copy (the last issue that I obtained).

It is sad that the company no longer exists.

Another long-time publisher was Russell's Guides, which published a bus guide that contained the schedules of all the bus lines in the country, and perhaps Canada. This is no longer in print, but the company still exists and has, on line, many bus schedules. However, the schedules are not in the familiar format; you have to ask for a particular company and then for schedules between two (or more) points

[CandOforprogress2]

Seen a all door car in Rutland VT on a Vermont Railway siding that has not moved in years...there is a plywood mill in town.